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Doses Illiteracy Have A Place In Any Court System?

rhinefire

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Rachel Jeantel’s testimony on the witness stand during the George Zimmerman murder trial was cringe-inducing, embarrassing, and mortifying to watch. As a Black woman I have been ridiculed for “talking white” and “thinking I’m white” because I navigate quite well outside of Black culture. Frankly, I would rather take that type of flack than be an embarrassment across worldwide media because of my inability to do so.
If we take nothing else away from Rachel Jeantel’s testimony, it should be this: Literacy involves more than being able to read and write. It involves the ability to effectively operate in the overall society when it matters most. Unfortunately, Rachel failed this test. We will see how it affects the outcome of this trial, and whether it helps or hurts the prosecution’s case.

SEE RELATED: Trayvon Martin trial tilts toward Zimmerman after Jeantel testimony

It would be wonderful if this sparked a wider conversation on the failure of modern Blacks to instill a love of words, literacy, and knowledge in our young, and greater still, the failure to encourage and teach our children how to maneuver outside of their everyday reality. This used to not only be a matter of practicality, but of progress, and safety. We appear to no longer give this proper weight, let alone thought.
Ebony, a history-making Black publication, could have penned a thought-provoking piece about how far we have fallen from this cultural norm, how we must return to it, and how we can begin again. Instead, the editorial writer went into attack mode: “The chastising of this woman’s speech and body language belied the fact that many themselves were rejecting their own self-reflection. For far too many of our community members that epitomize Drake’s ‘started from the bottom’ mantra would like to forget the places from whence they came.” When You Make Fun of Rachel Jeantel, You Make Fun of Us.
Ebony shoots, Ebony misses. My single mother made sure I knew how to read and write, as well as how to talk to adults and authority figures. If reality and sitcom television is any indicator, this has become a lost art. Christina Coleman, writer at the Global Grind, takes the “you’re not black enough to understand Rachel” tack: “And as Rachel Jeantel sits on the stand, nervous, mumbling and annoyed, it’s not that she’s just a ‘hoodrat with no media training from a hostile environment.’ It’s just that your world and our world are … excuse the cliche … worlds apart.”


Read more: Rachel Jeantel
Follow us: @wtcommunities on Twitter
How can the "truth" be pursued when persons of ignorance are the source of information in any application whether it be courts, schools or work?
 

MaggieD

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Rachel Jeantel’s testimony on the witness stand during the George Zimmerman murder trial was cringe-inducing, embarrassing, and mortifying to watch. As a Black woman I have been ridiculed for “talking white” and “thinking I’m white” because I navigate quite well outside of Black culture. Frankly, I would rather take that type of flack than be an embarrassment across worldwide media because of my inability to do so.
If we take nothing else away from Rachel Jeantel’s testimony, it should be this: Literacy involves more than being able to read and write. It involves the ability to effectively operate in the overall society when it matters most. Unfortunately, Rachel failed this test. We will see how it affects the outcome of this trial, and whether it helps or hurts the prosecution’s case.

SEE RELATED: Trayvon Martin trial tilts toward Zimmerman after Jeantel testimony

It would be wonderful if this sparked a wider conversation on the failure of modern Blacks to instill a love of words, literacy, and knowledge in our young, and greater still, the failure to encourage and teach our children how to maneuver outside of their everyday reality. This used to not only be a matter of practicality, but of progress, and safety. We appear to no longer give this proper weight, let alone thought.
Ebony, a history-making Black publication, could have penned a thought-provoking piece about how far we have fallen from this cultural norm, how we must return to it, and how we can begin again. Instead, the editorial writer went into attack mode: “The chastising of this woman’s speech and body language belied the fact that many themselves were rejecting their own self-reflection. For far too many of our community members that epitomize Drake’s ‘started from the bottom’ mantra would like to forget the places from whence they came.” When You Make Fun of Rachel Jeantel, You Make Fun of Us.
Ebony shoots, Ebony misses. My single mother made sure I knew how to read and write, as well as how to talk to adults and authority figures. If reality and sitcom television is any indicator, this has become a lost art. Christina Coleman, writer at the Global Grind, takes the “you’re not black enough to understand Rachel” tack: “And as Rachel Jeantel sits on the stand, nervous, mumbling and annoyed, it’s not that she’s just a ‘hoodrat with no media training from a hostile environment.’ It’s just that your world and our world are … excuse the cliche … worlds apart.”


Read more: Rachel Jeantel
Follow us: @wtcommunities on Twitter
How can the "truth" be pursued when persons of ignorance are the source of information in any application whether it be courts, schools or work?
*Applause Applause*
 

Josie

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I just wanted to add that I know many African families and they do not speak like that. Most are very eloquent, poised and polite, actually.
 

CanadaJohn

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I would also like to applaud your comments here today - it's timely, with the discussions recently about schools moving away from teaching cursive writing to young people. I blame a lot of this movement away from communications skills on the flood of communications technology that young people eat up voraciously - I remember the first time I texted with my Blackberry and the program filled in words for me, assuming it knew what I wanted to say or what I was spelling and it was very disconcerting and annoying because so often it was wrong. How many young people either know when it's wrong or recognize it and bother to change something they know to be wrong?

Hopefully, attention to things like this young lady's testimony will embarrass enough or challenge people enough to try to correct it in their own children going forward.
 

Fisher

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Well I think there are a lot of issues. First of which, most blacks I encounter do not speak as bad as some would want us to believe. Second, I have been in places in Appalachia where the white people could have just as well have been speaking Klingon for all I knew. It is not just a black thing--not all of them, but enough to have me wondering WTF these people were talking about. Lastly, people who grow up in marginalized communities are going to not be mainstream. Sometimes the marginalization is due to geography sometimes it is due to other things
 

clownboy

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Heh, the thread title ("Doses Illiteracy Have A Place In Any Court System?") makes this hilarious. I hope that was intentional?
 

Dittohead not!

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As a Black woman I have been ridiculed for “talking white” and “thinking I’m white” because I navigate quite well outside of Black culture. Frankly, I would rather take that type of flack than be an embarrassment across worldwide media because of my inability to do so.
That reminds me of a story about a lobster fisherman who was asked why he didn't need a top on his nets.

"Because, when one lobster starts to climb out, the other lobsters pull it back into the net."

Whether that is true of lobsters or not, I'm not sure, but it is certainly true of a culture that calls speaking standard English "talking white" and looks down on it.


How can the "truth" be pursued when persons of ignorance are the source of information in any application whether it be courts, schools or work?
Good question. Answer: It can't, of course.

Excellent post, BTW.
 

JackFrost

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You keep making up ****...

The op......rhinefire is a black woman
That is exactly my point. White People approve all messages from Uncle Tom's and Aunt Jemima's. This message is no different.

White way or the wrong way. There is no other option.
 

Dapper Andy

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The encouragement of illiteracy, etc. in the black community is far more disturbing than how widespread it already is.

There are innumerable examples of large sections of the black community questioning a person's "blackness" based on their education, lack of a criminal record, etc. I am genuinely unaware of something similar happening in any other ethnicity.

That is exactly my point. White People approve all messages from Uncle Tom's and Aunt Jemima's. This message is no different.

White way or the wrong way. There is no other option.
Yes!

I knew there was no way we would get far before someone called the OP an Uncle (Aunt) Tom.
 

Rainman05

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So, because the internet was in outrage over some woman called: Rachel Jeantel, I decided to google her.

To my surprise, I came across the long testimony of a illiterate liar. And the comments on youtube told me that she is the star witness of the prosecution.
And then I lol'd. Watched 30-40min of highlights. LOL.

I don't give a rats ass about the whole trial, 2 nobody's that nobody gives a damn about. But the whole video was amusing. I realize now I should have been following this trial. The opportunities for loling missed must have been numerous.
 

ric27

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That is exactly my point. White People approve all messages from Uncle Tom's and Aunt Jemima's. This message is no different.

White way or the wrong way. There is no other option.
Your post is convoluted and obscured

Illiteracy affects all races
 

Knowledge=power

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Thank you, glad to be of service. I will do my part and call a spade a spade.
You are doing exactly what rhinefire accused the black community of doing... making it seem like encouraging literacy and education is a white thing.

Bravo.
 

JackFrost

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You are doing exactly what rhinefire accused the black community of doing... making it seem like encouraging literacy and education is a white thing.

Bravo.
It is more of a system thing really. As with all social systems in America, Whites benefit from it so much more than blacks.
 

Knowledge=power

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It is more of a system thing really. As with all social systems in America, Whites benefit from it so much more than blacks.
All?.... doubt it.

Please tell me how whites benefit more from education...
 

Excon

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It is more of a system thing really. As with all social systems in America, Whites benefit from it so much more than blacks.
Actually they don't.
It has been provided on this forum, that by percentage of respective race, blacks take disproportionately more advantage of social services (such as Snap and Taniff befits) than whites do.
 

JackFrost

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How do you know I am white? :lol: back atcha. Get over it, Jack Frost. You're free.
You could be White, an Uncle/Aunt Tom, Uncle/Aunt Wong, Tio/Tia Thomas, etc. Doesn't matter. White People approve blacks attacking other blacks or minorities attacking other minorities in any way. Why? Because they benefit from our dissension.

WHITE POWER!
 

JackFrost

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Rachel Jeantel’s testimony on the witness stand during the George Zimmerman murder trial was cringe-inducing, embarrassing, and mortifying to watch. As a Black woman I have been ridiculed for “talking white” and “thinking I’m white” because I navigate quite well outside of Black culture. Frankly, I would rather take that type of flack than be an embarrassment across worldwide media because of my inability to do so.
If we take nothing else away from Rachel Jeantel’s testimony, it should be this: Literacy involves more than being able to read and write. It involves the ability to effectively operate in the overall society when it matters most. Unfortunately, Rachel failed this test. We will see how it affects the outcome of this trial, and whether it helps or hurts the prosecution’s case.

SEE RELATED: Trayvon Martin trial tilts toward Zimmerman after Jeantel testimony

It would be wonderful if this sparked a wider conversation on the failure of modern Blacks to instill a love of words, literacy, and knowledge in our young, and greater still, the failure to encourage and teach our children how to maneuver outside of their everyday reality. This used to not only be a matter of practicality, but of progress, and safety. We appear to no longer give this proper weight, let alone thought.
Ebony, a history-making Black publication, could have penned a thought-provoking piece about how far we have fallen from this cultural norm, how we must return to it, and how we can begin again. Instead, the editorial writer went into attack mode: “The chastising of this woman’s speech and body language belied the fact that many themselves were rejecting their own self-reflection. For far too many of our community members that epitomize Drake’s ‘started from the bottom’ mantra would like to forget the places from whence they came.” When You Make Fun of Rachel Jeantel, You Make Fun of Us.
Ebony shoots, Ebony misses. My single mother made sure I knew how to read and write, as well as how to talk to adults and authority figures. If reality and sitcom television is any indicator, this has become a lost art. Christina Coleman, writer at the Global Grind, takes the “you’re not black enough to understand Rachel” tack: “And as Rachel Jeantel sits on the stand, nervous, mumbling and annoyed, it’s not that she’s just a ‘hoodrat with no media training from a hostile environment.’ It’s just that your world and our world are … excuse the cliche … worlds apart.”


Read more: Rachel Jeantel
Follow us: @wtcommunities on Twitter
How can the "truth" be pursued when persons of ignorance are the source of information in any application whether it be courts, schools or work?
rhinefire, I want to know if you took into account two major differences between Rachel Jeantel and "Modern Blacks":

1. Parents are from Haiti
2. Spoke two languages in the home, none of which were English (French, Haitian?)

As a Black Modern Woman, tell me, did your mother speak/read/write English? If so, how can you compare your situation or Modern Black Americans to that of Rachel Jeantel's? Does a Black Modern Woman like yourself understand these are huge differences?
 

brothern

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It would be wonderful if this sparked a wider conversation on the failure of modern Blacks to instill a love of words, literacy, and knowledge in our young, and greater still, the failure to encourage and teach our children how to maneuver outside of their everyday reality. This used to not only be a matter of practicality, but of progress, and safety. We appear to no longer give this proper weight, let alone thought.
First off. As I understand it, Jeantel's first language is not English but Creole. If I had to use one of my second languages in a court trial, I'd be dead. That Jeantel could have a conversation in two languages is very admirable and laudable.

On the other terms I agree with you ... sorta. There is a widespread failure of both black and white adults in treating blacks kids with the commitment and time that those kids deserve in receiving an education. Too often black kids (and boys more than girls) are written-off as being void of potential and are therefore thrown into failing inner city schools with no one having intention of ever investing in them. It means that these kids are never given the chance at a proper education, and therefore drop out and end up with a poorer quality of life as a result.

However I have also seen too many black parents doing everything in their power to create a better life for their children in the face of tremendous obstacles. For me that's enough anecdotal evidence to believe that the black community is just as caring about their children's education than anyone else is. I cannot imagine black parents ever wanting their kids to be limited in life, or to be denied opportunities in life that they have enjoyed or would wish to enjoy. From my perspective, I don't think there is a deficit of weight or want for literacy.

Certainly there will always be a subset of the population that will be ****ty parents. As someone who has had to deal with parents before; they are possibly my most unfavorite group of people on this planet. But that is a universal quality of parenthood that does not depend on race or ethnicity and can very much depend upon the economic stability of the family.

I would also like to applaud your comments here today - it's timely, with the discussions recently about schools moving away from teaching cursive writing to young people.
It's an absolute waste of time to teach young people cursive, because it's an outdated skill. We are living in a world that is now digital. Skills such as typing, technological competency and virtual communication are required competencies for people in order to get an education, hold jobs or even just flat out survive. Perhaps there is value in penmanship, because it helps develop motor skill for kids, but cursive in and of itself? ... not at all.

White People approved message:lol:
You black? If I'm assuming so ... Yeah, I can empathize with you to a point. I go to gay bars and pride parades, donate to HIV causes, am in a relationship with a man and the vast majority of my friends are also gay. I don't live in Chicago's Boystown, but I visit often. If there was a gay guy that took a verbal axe to the LGBT community, I'd more than ostracize him. It's a community that has seen its fair share of abuse and unprovoked hostility, and I'd defend it. BUT, there is a difference between feeling like you belong in a community and limiting yourself to a community. Worse if it was the entire community trying to self-segregate itself from the rest of the world. I'd never walk into a job interview in a flaming v-neck and call the hiring manager a twink, just as you would probably not show up ghetto at a job interview. It's a necessary skill for people be able to effectively and successfully communicate outside of their "groups." Be that language, manner, dress or whatever. Calling someone an Uncle Tom doesn't help either.

Actually they don't. It has been provided on this forum, that by percentage of respective race, blacks take disproportionately more advantage of social services (such as Snap and Taniff befits) than whites do.
I don't believe he his talking about government benefits. He said 'social systems'. As in the school system or healthcare availability. Or access to reliable transportation, public libraries or fresh/affordable food. Things like that are what are more available to whites than are to blacks, which ends up benefiting the white population more than the black population. You only need to look at poverty rates -- White 13%; Black 35%; Hispanic 33% -- to get a sense of that.
 

Excon

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I don't believe he his talking about government benefits. He said 'social systems'. As in the school system or healthcare availability. Or access to reliable transportation, public libraries or fresh/affordable food. Things like that are what are more available to whites than are to blacks, which ends up benefiting the white population more than the black population. You only need to look at poverty rates -- White 13%; Black 35%; Hispanic 33% -- to get a sense of that.
I would suggest letting him talk for himself.
He has a history here and it was obvious what he was talking about.
What I said was accurate.
Actually they don't.
It has been provided on this forum, that by percentage of respective race, blacks take disproportionately more advantage of social services (such as Snap and Taniff befits) than whites do.

But since you now interjected he may take your cue and go in that direction.

And we are not discussing poverty rates, of which there is a plethora of conditions that could be responsible for that.
 
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MaggieD

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You could be White, an Uncle/Aunt Tom, Uncle/Aunt Wong, Tio/Tia Thomas, etc. Doesn't matter. White People approve blacks attacking other blacks or minorities attacking other minorities in any way. Why? Because they benefit from our dissension.

WHITE POWER!
Hahaha!! You're an honest-to-goodness hoot, Jack!
 
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