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Doing the right thing is never easy!

And has resulted in zero, nada.

The Dems have established an historical first in the Nations history, the first quasi impeachment conducted exclusively and unilaterally by the unilateral action of a single political party.

That should mean something...……….

It does.

It means the people who do not see that Trump attempted to extort President Zelensky...and then obstructed the House's investigation...

...have closed their minds to reality.
 
Plentiful, huh. That's what I thought. You have no idea. You're just repeating what you've been told.

Discuss the topic...not what you think of me.

I have followed the issue closely...and anyone with an open mind should be able to see that Trump deserved impeachment.

He deserves to be removed from office, but that does not seem in the cards.
 
It does.

It means the people who do not see that Trump attempted to extort President Zelensky...and then obstructed the House's investigation...

...have closed their minds to reality.

Or, it means that those who think he tried to extort Zelensky and obstruct the House are simply intellectually vacant ideologues, who can only follow commands.
 
I did. And I told you yesterday your link was talking about the Mueller Report, not impeachment. It was from back in May. My God, you didn't even read your own link.

I read my link...I read the letter.

Trump attempted to extort Zelensky for his (Trump's) personal political purposes...and attempted to obstruct the House's investigation.

If you have a problem with that...it is YOUR problem...not mine.
 
Gopers wonder why the Dems are impeaching Trump when they know no matter what Trump did the GOP controlled Senate would never convict him. It certainly shows what kind of people the GOPers are that they wonder.

So your entire thread is based on your assumption. How do you know the Senate wouldn't impeach Trump for crimes? But to answer, they wouldn't convict him when you don't even have a witness who can testify because all of your claims were based on hearsay witnesses.

The Dems are going against the political wisdom of the day which says they can not remove Trump now and it will hurt their chances in 2020 to remove Trump and keep their 2018 gains to do the RIGHT THING.

How is faking an impeachment claim the right thing? If it was the right thing they wouldn't have to hold the articles of impeachment asking the Senate to re-negotiate the terms of the rules of evidence and witness testimony to allow hearsay witnesses.

Trump has done many things which could have removed him from office in another time, but with this less than ethical GOP in charge of the Senate, he is safe no matter what he does and he and the GOP know it. So many of the GOPers can not understand that the Dems are doing the right thing. The present GOP sees everything through the lenses of political gain or loss and winning at any cost is important. That is why they are filling the courts with undesirable jurists who will certainly rule in favor of the GOP every time no matter what the issue. It certainly is a sad time for the nation, but the one seemingly bright lights is the action by the Dems to do the right thing.

This is why nobody buys this gibberish. EVERY president fills the courts with their party nominees. Another reason why your post fails is if 50 forensic FBI agents, 2 dozen CIA officials, 2500 witnesses, 17 super lawyers, millions of documents, and the Dems provided actual crimes, evidence of these crimes, and witnesses to the facts, and the GOP decided not to convict, they would go down in flames. Yet after all that you can't even find a single fact witness to testify? That tells the story all by itself.

When you can't even find one Republican to vote for your articles of Impeachment, it doesn't mean there is a mass conspiracy, it means you have contrived a fake impeachment with fake witnesses and nobody is buying it.
 
Or, it means that those who think he tried to extort Zelensky and obstruct the House are simply intellectually vacant ideologues, who can only follow commands.

Trump obviously attempted to extort Zelensky...and obviously attempted to obstruct the House in its investigation.

But, as Trump said, he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, and he would not lose any support.

So...continue to support him. That is your right.
 
If you want to think the opinion of one guy in a two man argument on a news show...is of greater value than the written commentary of 1000 former federal prosecutors...fine with me. I am not questioning YOUR opinion.

The Senate will acquit Trump...probably by a 100% not guilty vote of Republicans. My opinion is that "the facts" will have mattered less than the fear those Republicans feel to their careers of a "guilty" vote.

Maybe I am wrong.

Of course it’s not a greater value. It just contributes to the rational belief that reasonable doubt exists, at least it would in the minds of some jurors which is all that matters.
 
Some of the senators...which includes the Republican senators...will vote their conscience. (By the way, it is conscience, not conscious.)

So some senators obviously consider there is a reasonable doubt right?
 
Trump obviously attempted to extort Zelensky...and obviously attempted to obstruct the House in its investigation.

But, as Trump said, he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, and he would not lose any support.

So...continue to support him. That is your right.

After reading reports, and listening to testimony and evidence, it's obvious the only people who believe the President did anything wrong are brain dead ideologues, as I indicated before.

Of course, everyone is entitled to hold whatever opinions they want, as that is their right.
 
Of course it’s not a greater value. It just contributes to the rational belief that reasonable doubt exists, at least it would in the minds of some jurors which is all that matters.

The Senate vote from the Republican side will almost certainly be 100% for acquittal.

If you think that primarily is a result of "reasonable doubt" existing rather than fear of political retribution, S...that is your right.

I support you exercising your right.

As for me, the testimony I heard convinces me that Trump definitely attempted to extort Zelensky...and definitely attempted to obstruct congress.
 
It isn't. I'm guessing you didn't watch the questioning of the witnesses.

Almost every minute, I do confess to napping through small bits and pieces., It does get monotonous hearing the same questions/answers over and over again or even worse Republicans asking no questions, just blathering nonsense at the top of their lungs about how it's all just so unfair!!!
 
So some senators obviously consider there is a reasonable doubt right?

I would hope so. There should be some reasonable doubt on both sides...both for conviction and against it.

If the vote goes 100% for either side...I would question whether there was any objectivity at all on the side that goes 100%.
 
After reading reports, and listening to testimony and evidence, it's obvious the only people who believe the President did anything wrong are brain dead ideologues, as I indicated before.

Of course, everyone is entitled to hold whatever opinions they want, as that is their right.

I listened carefully to all the testimony...and have considered the evidence obtained carefully.

If you want to suppose I am a brain dead ideologue because I am damn near certain Trump attempted to extort President Zelensky...and attempted to obstruct the House in its investigation of the matter...

...I'll have to live with that.
 
I listened carefully to all the testimony...and have considered the evidence obtained carefully.

If you want to suppose I am a brain dead ideologue because I am damn near certain Trump attempted to extort President Zelensky...and attempted to obstruct the House in its investigation of the matter...

...I'll have to live with that.

Everyone is entitled to hold whatever opinions they want, as that is their right.
 
If you want to think the opinion of one guy in a two man argument on a news show...is of greater value than the written commentary of 1000 former federal prosecutors...fine with me. I am not questioning YOUR opinion.

The Senate will acquit Trump...probably by a 100% not guilty vote of Republicans. My opinion is that "the facts" will have mattered less than the fear those Republicans feel to their careers of a "guilty" vote.

Maybe I am wrong.

I have the same fear.

I just really hope more Americans believe in truth and justice and right from wrong over partisan loyalties.

I am not a pence fan however he at least would not be the most self centered, corrupt, anti American president in history...
 
I have the same fear.

I just really hope more Americans believe in truth and justice and right from wrong over partisan loyalties.

I am not a pence fan however he at least would not be the most self centered, corrupt, anti American president in history...

Yup. We agree.
 
Gopers wonder why the Dems are impeaching Trump when they know no matter what Trump did the GOP controlled Senate would never convict him. It certainly shows what kind of people the GOPers are that they wonder. The Dems are going against the political wisdom of the day which says they can not remove Trump now and it will hurt their chances in 2020 to remove Trump and keep their 2018 gains to do the RIGHT THING. Trump has done many things which could have removed him from office in another time, but with this less than ethical GOP in charge of the Senate, he is safe no matter what he does and he and the GOP know it. So many of the GOPers can not understand that the Dems are doing the right thing. The present GOP sees everything through the lenses of political gain or loss and winning at any cost is important. That is why they are filling the courts with undesirable jurists who will certainly rule in favor of the GOP every time no matter what the issue. It certainly is a sad time for the nation, but the one seemingly bright lights is the action by the Dems to do the right thing.

The Right Wing prefers to lose credibility over economics, the law, morals, and politics.
 
The testimony they gave points to Trump attempting an extortion of Zelensky.

You apparently are not willing to see or acknowledge that.

Okay...no problem.

Trump is counting on people like you...the ones who could see him shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and still defend him.

Ah..."it points to that", meaning that you see what you want to see but the hard facts don't back it up.
 
Gopers wonder why the Dems are impeaching Trump when they know no matter what Trump did the GOP controlled Senate would never convict him. It certainly shows what kind of people the GOPers are that they wonder. The Dems are going against the political wisdom of the day which says they can not remove Trump now and it will hurt their chances in 2020 to remove Trump and keep their 2018 gains to do the RIGHT THING. Trump has done many things which could have removed him from office in another time, but with this less than ethical GOP in charge of the Senate, he is safe no matter what he does and he and the GOP know it. So many of the GOPers can not understand that the Dems are doing the right thing. The present GOP sees everything through the lenses of political gain or loss and winning at any cost is important. That is why they are filling the courts with undesirable jurists who will certainly rule in favor of the GOP every time no matter what the issue. It certainly is a sad time for the nation, but the one seemingly bright lights is the action by the Dems to do the right thing.

Doing the right thing is going to cause Trump to be re-elected. Wouldn't the right thing in your mind be Trump being done after one term? If the right thing were Trump being gone I would think you would want to do the right thing and not the wrong thing.
 
Almost every minute, I do confess to napping through small bits and pieces., It does get monotonous hearing the same questions/answers over and over again or even worse Republicans asking no questions, just blathering nonsense at the top of their lungs about how it's all just so unfair!!!

Then you didn't miss the part where the witnesses were asked if they had any direct evidence of Trump linking aide or putting any pressure on the Ukrainian President and they all said, "no"?
 
Ah..."it points to that", meaning that you see what you want to see but the hard facts don't back it up.

You apparently see the evidence and testimony differently from me.

As far as I am concerned...the evidence and testimony ARE THE HARD FACTS...and I see them "backing up" my position.

I acknowledge you disagree.
 
Then you didn't miss the part where the witnesses were asked if they had any direct evidence of Trump linking aide or putting any pressure on the Ukrainian President and they all said, "no"?

The evidence and testimony that I heard indicates that Trump DID try to extort Zelensky...and it seems obvious to me that he attempted to obstruct the House investigation.

The witnesses, in effect, said, "I never directly heard Trump say, "either you do what I tell you or you ares screwed.'"

You are correct about that.

But the testimony they gave indicates that was exactly what Trump was doing.
 
Discuss the topic...not what you think of me.

I have followed the issue closely...and anyone with an open mind should be able to see that Trump deserved impeachment.

He deserves to be removed from office, but that does not seem in the cards.

You aren't the topic.
By saying there was no evidence I was discussing the topic of impeachment.
By not supporting your claim of evidence for impeachment you were not discussing it.
 
I read my link...I read the letter.

Trump attempted to extort Zelensky for his (Trump's) personal political purposes...and attempted to obstruct the House's investigation.

If you have a problem with that...it is YOUR problem...not mine.

The letters in your link were from May. That was months before the Trump call with Zelensky.
What letter are you talking about?
 
You aren't the topic.
By saying there was no evidence I was discussing the topic of impeachment.
By not supporting your claim of evidence for impeachment you were not discussing it.

I am saying there WAS evidence...and lots of it.

Trump was impeached because there has never been a president more deserving of impeachment. He should be removed from office, but that will not happen. The Republicans have allowed Tump to take over their party and their base. If any of them vote to find him guilty, they are toast. So...Trump will be acquitted...not because the super majority of the Senators think he is not guilty, but because they are terrified of him.
 
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