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Does this man hate cops and or feels sorry for criminals?

Why would Sen. David Paterson propose ‘shoot-to-maim’ laws?

  • Because he hates cops and loves criminals.

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • because "Shoot-to-main" would be a good law.

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • He is unaware of the difficulties and reality of the jobs of law enforcement.

    Votes: 9 69.2%
  • I do not know.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    13

jamesrage

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This moron Sen. David Paterson must hate cops or feels sorry for criminals for some reason.Why else introduce a bill that would put cops in more harm's way than they already are by trying to introduce laws that punish them for defending themselves? I can tell the moron has no military training and nor does he have police experiance.If he had either he would know that a non-fatal wound will not stop a determined indivuall from firing back.He would also know that in certian situations you can not sit there and try to aim for a hand,arm or leg while someone is pointing and firing a gun at you.What the **** has that moron been smoking?

http://www.nydailynews.com/02-23-2006/news/regional/story/393912p-333984c.html

BY JOE MAHONEY
DAILY NEWS ALBANY BUREAU CHIEF

ALBANY - Sen. David Paterson is pushing a bill that would require cops to shoot to wound, rather than using deadly force - drawing outrage from officers.

The bill also would create a new provision for second-degree manslaughter that would be reserved specifically for an officer who "uses more than the minimal amount necessary" to stop a crime suspect.



Luckily there are some people with some sense in office in that states.

http://www.senatorgolden.com/press_archive_story.asp?id=12974

State Senator Martin Golden (Brooklyn) was pleased today at the withdrawal of legislation, crafted by Senate Minority Leader David Paterson, which would have required police officers to use non-lethal force when confronted by armed criminals. Senator Golden believes the ‘shoot-to-maim’ legislation was not only misguided but, fundamentally flawed.

"I am shocked by the ridiculous notion of this legislation. Requiring officers to shoot to maim would not only further endanger our brave men and women in blue, but it is completely impractical in the real world," said Senator Golden, a former New York City Police Officer, who himself was injured in the line of duty by a gun-toting criminal.

What are your thoughts?
Is Sen. David Paterson a cop-hater/criminal lover?
Does Sen. David Paterson have a good Idea?
Is Sen. David Paterson just misguided about the difficulties and reality of law enforcemnt
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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The cops think they're James Bond wth a license to kill, is why such bills become necessary.

A 60 year old bag lady in Venice Beach is shot and killed by TWO bicycle patrolmen when she lunged at them with a screwdriver. They were attempting to recover stolen property, ie the shopping cart she was pushing around. Two young cops, in the prime of physical fitness, can't use their night sticks to disarm an old lady with a screwdriver? They just HAD to use their guns?

There's enough examples of questionable shootings, and more than enough proven cases of the police abusing their authority to warrant a rational limit on how they perform their jobs.
 

jamesrage

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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
The cops think they're James Bond wth a license to kill, is why such bills become necessary.
.

Cops need to have every avaliable means of defending themselves.When you are being shot at or someone is trying to stab you with a knife you do not have time to aim for a leg,hand or arm,those are much harder targets to hit.

A 60 year old bag lady in Venice Beach is shot and killed by TWO bicycle patrolmen when she lunged at them with a screwdriver.

She should have not been trying to stab the cops to death with a screw driver.

Two young cops, in the prime of physical fitness, can't use their night sticks to disarm an old lady with a screwdriver?

Remember Rodney King?

They just HAD to use their guns?
They proably could have killed her with their night sticks.
There's enough examples of questionable shootings, and more than enough proven cases of the police abusing their authority to warrant a rational limit on how they perform their jobs

Rational limits?You call telling a cop that he has to try to aim for a scumbag's hand,leg or arm while being shot at rational limitis? A bullet in the arm is not going to stop a determined criminal from shooting back.I would rather the cop live instead of the criminal.
 

Willoughby

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Cops need to have every avaliable means of defending themselves.When you are being shot at or someone is trying to stab you with a knife you do not have time to aim for a leg,hand or arm,those are much harder targets to hit.

why guns though. just scrap guns to the general police force!
 

DeeJayH

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Willoughby said:
why guns though. just scrap guns to the general police force!
:2rofll:
are you for real
that would work so well :doh :roll:
 

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DeeJayH said:
:2rofll:
are you for real
that would work so well :doh :roll:

The gun-less cops is the English way of doing things - I do not know if this works or not !
If the news report is true and unbiased ( and this would be very unusual), the woman should not have been shot.
I favor a far better trained police force and the use of weapons which apprehend rather than kill.
But, this is for the future.
Any man who commits a crime using any weapon, even his size, deserves to be shot and killed:( !
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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jamesrage said:
Cops need to have every avaliable means of defending themselves.When you are being shot at or someone is trying to stab you with a knife you do not have time to aim for a leg,hand or arm,those are much harder targets to hit.



She should have not been trying to stab the cops to death with a screw driver.



Remember Rodney King?


They proably could have killed her with their night sticks.


Rational limits?You call telling a cop that he has to try to aim for a scumbag's hand,leg or arm while being shot at rational limitis? A bullet in the arm is not going to stop a determined criminal from shooting back.I would rather the cop live instead of the criminal.

Did you miss the part where I said "old" lady, and "young" cops? I mentioned the word "stick", didn't I? With no training at all, I could use a stick to disarm one old lady with a screwdriver, and I'm fat and forty.

That was a clear case of excessive force. Period. And if there has to be a new law to punish lazy arrogant cops that use excessive force, then so be it. Their job is to arrest miscreants, its not to kill people wantonly because they're too lazy or too gutless to do their job right. If they can't handle doing their job right, well...there's always strawberries that need pickin'.
 

jamesrage

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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Did you miss the part where I said "old" lady, and "young" cops? I mentioned the word "stick", didn't I? With no training at all, I could use a stick to disarm one old lady with a screwdriver, and I'm fat and forty.
.

Never under estimate your opponent.


That was a clear case of excessive force. Period. And if there has to be a new law to punish lazy arrogant cops that use excessive force, then so be it. Their job is to arrest miscreants, its not to kill people wantonly because they're too lazy or too gutless to do their job right. If they can't handle doing their job right, well...there's always strawberries that need pickin'

You do realize that a wounded desperate man is still dangerous?SHooting him in the arm will not be enough to stop a armed man who is desperate and full of adrenaline.
A abdomen and a head is much easier to shoot than that a arm or hand.If a criminal is running at a cop with a knife or gun I want the cop to be able to have the option to use deadly force to shoot the criminal who is threatening his life.Real life is not like a video,In the real world that most people the weapon kicks back and when you are being fired at you do not have the time or reflex to zero in and shoot someone's arm or hand.This is not the movies nor is it the video games.
 

DeeJayH

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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Did you miss the part where I said "old" lady, and "young" cops? I mentioned the word "stick", didn't I? With no training at all, I could use a stick to disarm one old lady with a screwdriver, and I'm fat and forty.

That was a clear case of excessive force. Period. And if there has to be a new law to punish lazy arrogant cops that use excessive force, then so be it. Their job is to arrest miscreants, its not to kill people wantonly because they're too lazy or too gutless to do their job right. If they can't handle doing their job right, well...there's always strawberries that need pickin'.

i was hoping you were not serious when i read your first response
this sounds just like AbuGhraib. a few bad apples and people want to blow it out of proportion and blame the entire community

If it was a clear case of excessive force, the police dep't review board will rule such. I think they should as well.

as far as this idiots proposed law; every resonable, experienced officer would be ham-stringed by this retarded law because most cops never take out their weapon. And the very few that do rarely even fire it. The overwhelming majority of cops that fire their weapons are usually in a desperate life or death moment. Its not like cops go around on shooting sprees.

This proposal sounds like a knee-jerk reaction
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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DeeJayH said:
i was hoping you were not serious when i read your first response
this sounds just like AbuGhraib. a few bad apples and people want to blow it out of proportion and blame the entire community

If it was a clear case of excessive force, the police dep't review board will rule such. I think they should as well.

as far as this idiots proposed law; every resonable, experienced officer would be ham-stringed by this retarded law because most cops never take out their weapon. And the very few that do rarely even fire it.

This proposal sounds like a knee-jerk reaction

Nope, Abu Grhraib was blown out of proportion because I don't care about them. I don't really care about bag ladies, either, but I can't nuke LA to clean out few bad cops.

If cops don't take out their weapon, then clearly the law can't be restricting their performance of their duty, now can it? So much for the water that used to be under your keel.


DeeJayH said:
The overwhelming majority of cops that fire their weapons are usually in a desperate life or death moment. Its not like cops go around on shooting sprees.

A man in the apartments across the street committed suicide by cop. At least eight distinct shots were fired by my count. Suicide by cop became the rage when they adopted the what-the-hell-shoot-to-kill-and-avoid-trial policies. It was unheard of before the mid 1990's.

There are times when a shooting is required, like when a teen age boy in a stolen car threatens to hit the cop with the car. Naturally the cop couldn't move aside, so he had to shoot the kid. Just as naturally, the board of inquiry, as usual, exonerated the cop. Only because it was "within policy" though. It was clear that the cop didn't have to stand and shoot, he could have moved out of the way.

A high speed chase ends in a parking lot with the SUV pulling into a parking spot. A cop is standing in front of the vehicle. Behind the cop is a brick wall. The cop doesn't move, but he does shoot the driver when he gooses the engine and surges the vehicle forward. The cop didn't have to stand in front of the car, but it's okay to shoot the bad guy, just because the cop is too stupid to move.

A man sleeping is wakened by a surprise raid, the cops pretended there was marijuana growing on his 800 acre ranch and wanted to seize it under the unconsituition civil forfeiture laws. Unarmed, the man is still shot and no, they never found a single bud on the whole ranch.

A woman sleeping in a car is awakened to find her car surrounded by a dozen cops. In the process of trying to get her out of the vehicle, they wind up shooting her a dozen times, killing her. She had no weapon.

The function of the police is to protect the citizen. Trigger happy cops give the responsible ones a bad name. The responsible ones don't need a law to stop them from unnecessary shooting. The irresponsible ones should be jailed with the other criminals. That's what this law is for.

Those examples I listed? Los Angeles County only. How many counties are there in this country? A thousand? How many Barney Fife's and Sheriffs Beauford T. Justice's can we afford?
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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And

How could I forget something so recent? US Airforce Air Patrol Officer Shot Be LA County Sheriff Deputy

[url='http://www.narpa.org/amnesty%20international.htm"]Mentally Ill Victims of Trigger Happy Police[/url]In Rights for All Amnesty International noted the problem of police using excessive force, including deadly force, against mentally ill or disturbed people who could have been subdued through less extreme measures. Further cases have been reported since then, including suicidal individuals shot by police after they had harmed themselves but not attacked other people. For example, in February 1999 Ricardo Clos is reported to have died after being shot at 38 times by Los Angeles sheriff’s deputies who had responded to a call for help from his wife after he had cut himself in the neck. Police reportedly opened fire after he threw the knife towards them (missing them)

The fatal shooting of Margaret Laverne Mitchell - a frail, mentally ill, homeless 55-year-old woman - by a Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) officer in May 1999 caused particular local concern. Police said the officer shot Mrs Mitchell when she lunged at him with a screwdriver while he and another officer were questioning her about a shopping cart she was pushing.18 Amnesty International wrote to the LAPD in July expressing concern that the shooting was disproportionate to the threat posed and seeking information on whether the department has introduced any special measures for dealing with the mentally disturbed. No response had been received at the time of writing. The shooting is believed to remain under investigation.

[url="http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?010521fa_FACT]The "Rampart Scandal"[/url]On September 8, 1999, a thirty-two-year-old Los Angeles police officer named Rafael Perez, who had been caught stealing a million dollars' worth of cocaine from police evidence-storage facilities, signed a plea bargain in which he promised to help uncover corruption within the Los Angeles Police Department. Perez hinted at a scandal that could involve perhaps five other officers, including a sergeant. Later, Perez began to talk about a different magnitude of corruption—wrongdoing that he claimed was endemic to special police units such as the one on which he worked, combatting gangs in the city's dangerous Rampart district. Perez declared that bogus arrests, perjured testimony, and the planting of "drop guns" on unarmed civilians were commonplace. Perez's story unfolded over a period of months, and ignited what came to be known as the Rampart scandal, which the Los Angeles Times called "the worst corruption scandal in L.A.P.D. history."

Remember, I'm trying to list only Los Angeles crimes here. There's enough evidence to show that cops should NEVER be given the benefit of the doubt. And LA is just a typical city, there's nothing special here. New York is worse, New Orleans had cops joining the looters, and the FBI and BATF barbequed 83 people in Waco for their religious beliefs.
 

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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Remember, I'm trying to list only Los Angeles crimes here. There's enough evidence to show that cops should NEVER be given the benefit of the doubt. And LA is just a typical city, there's nothing special here. New York is worse, New Orleans had cops joining the looters, and the FBI and BATF barbequed 83 people in Waco for their religious beliefs.

actually you need to remember that LA is a city of MILLIONS with tens of thousands of police officers
and all you can produce is a few red herrings :roll:
 

talloulou

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I'm sure there really are some bad cops out there but that's no reason to handicap the entire US police force, in my opinion. And MOST of these wrongful shootings or police brutality cases generally have something in common...


Some person was doing something illegal, acting crazy, leading cops on a crazy police chase, resisting arrest, and refusing to cooperate so that their actions were highly unpredictable.

Do cops shoot unarmed people? Sure they do? But generally the person is an idiot who has pissed them off beyond belief and then refuses to do what they are told and instead moves and jerks all around with actions and motions that make a cop nervous and suspicious. It's easy to whine about someone being "unarmed" when they were shot but guess what? The cop has NO IDEA if your armed or not if you don't lie still and do what your told.

Now I know very occasionally you hear a story where the cop is completely in the wrong however the stories with the nutjobs who behaved like morons are WAY more common and I don't have an ounce of sympathy for them.

If I had to choose between some goofballs being shot unnecessarily or some cops being shot because they were forced to err on the side of a criminal being a lovely person that must not be badly injured.....

Please I'll side with the cops everytime.
 
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talloulou

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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Did you miss the part where I said "old" lady, and "young" cops? I mentioned the word "stick", didn't I? With no training at all, I could use a stick to disarm one old lady with a screwdriver, and I'm fat and forty.

How do you know? Have you ever actually been attacked by an old lady with a screwdriver? Probably not. And most likely they weren't expecting the attack and everything happened very fast. On top of that she was CRAZY and CRAZY gives you strength in fights, it really does. So do drugs! Was she cleared of drug use?

That was a clear case of excessive force.

Maybe it was excessive force but maybe it wasn't. The only thing that IS clear is that this lunatic tried to stab the cop with a screwdriver and the cop acted in self defense! Good for him.

The day we start placing cops at the mercy of lunatics and maniacs is the day cops will just stop doing their job altogether. The one thing a cop has going for him is that gun! And if criminals are too stupid or crazy to see that gun as a sign that cops should not be fuuuuuuuuuuucked with than that is their own stupid fault.
 

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What you don't understand is that the cops are supposed to obey the same laws we do. That means they can't go around killing old ladies just because they're cowards. You've yet to say what's wrong with a law that requires a cop to use the minimum force required instead of the blanket excuse they have today to use deadly force at the least provocation.

I posted three or four incidents. One of those was the Rampart Scandal that involved upwards of a hundred cops in only one division. And, as I continue to note, the LAPD is nothing but a typical police deparment. It's just like yours, except some of them got caught.

The first step to living in a police state is to worship police for nothing but their uniforms. Obey the law blindly. Tell yourself in your heart of hearts that no, they really wouldn't try to murder all of us, and then walk peacefully, nakedly, to the edge of the pit or into the gas chamber.
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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talloulou said:
Do cops shoot unarmed people? Sure they do? But generally the person is an idiot who has pissed them off beyond belief and then refuses to do what they are told and instead moves and jerks all around with actions and motions that make a cop nervous and suspicious. It's easy to whine about someone being "unarmed" when they were shot but guess what? The cop has NO IDEA if your armed or not if you don't lie still and do what your told.

Now I know very occasionally you hear a story where the cop is completely in the wrong however the stories with the nutjobs who behaved like morons are WAY more common and I don't have an ounce of sympathy for them.

If I had to choose between some goofballs being shot unnecessarily or some cops being shot because they were forced to err on the side of a criminal being a lovely person that must not be badly injured.....

Please I'll side with the cops everytime.

Yes, we can find good jews everywhere.
 

talloulou

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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Yes, we can find good jews everywhere.

What the ???

The only thing I understand about that statement is that it says far more about you than it does about me!
 

talloulou

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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
What you don't understand is that the cops are supposed to obey the same laws we do. That means they can't go around killing old ladies just because they're cowards.

No but they can defend themselves against someone attacking with a screwdriver which incidently so you could you and I.
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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talloulou said:
What the ???

The only thing I understand about that statement is that it says far more about you than it does about me!


The good jew obeyed the law, registered with the Nazis, and walked into the gas chambers without a fuss.
 

talloulou

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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
The good jew obeyed the law, registered with the Nazis, and walked into the gas chambers without a fuss.

Oh okay now I see your point. For a minute there I thought it was some kind of racial slur.

I guess the day my perception changes and I believe most cops have gone insane with their power and thus are thrilling in the brutal abuse of innocents I'll agree with you.;)

In the meantime I still belileve that MOST who are shot by cops PROBABLY brought it on themselves.
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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talloulou said:
Oh okay now I see your point. For a minute there I thought it was some kind of racial slur.

I guess the day my perception changes and I believe most cops have gone insane with their power and thus are thrilling in the brutal abuse of innocents I'll agree with you.;)

In the meantime I still belileve that MOST who are shot by cops PROBABLY brought it on themselves.


Actually, most cops are probably average joes with the wife and kids. Then again, most people don't commit murder, the laws against it are for those who do. Same with any law restricting police use of force.
 

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talloulou said:
Maybe it was excessive force but maybe it wasn't. The only thing that IS clear is that this lunatic tried to stab the cop with a screwdriver and the cop acted in self defense! Good for him.

The day we start placing cops at the mercy of lunatics and maniacs is the day cops will just stop doing their job altogether. The one thing a cop has going for him is that gun! And if criminals are too stupid or crazy to see that gun as a sign that cops should not be fuuuuuuuuuuucked with than that is their own stupid fault.


It amuses me how people can feel sorry for these criminals instead of our law enforcement.I a criminal wants to try and kill a law enforcement official then the only thing he deserves is a bullet in the chest or head not our sympathy.I do not want criminals having the upper hand because they know cops can't use lethal force against.Law like what that moron has proprosed hurts and punishes cops for doing their job.
 

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If you try to attack a cop with a weapon, your life is as good as forfeit. It's that simple. Threatening an officer with deadly force is as good as clearing him of the charges for shooting you.

Why didn't the cops just talk to her or try to subdue her? Hmmmm....

Ithaca Police Investigator Michael Padula was attempting to talk a mentally disturbed woman, with a knife, into surrendering the weapon when she lunged at him and fatally stabbed him. Other officers opened fire and killed the woman.

Does anyone really think cops LIKE killing people??? Anytime an officer fires his gun, even if he doesn't hit anyone, there is an immense amount of paperwork and the chance of losing their job. Nobody's going to risk that without reason.
 

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RightatNYU said:
Does anyone really think cops LIKE killing people???

Some do. Why do you pretend that's not the case? ...Tackleberry is real!

Do any of you people see any moral or ethical problems with a healthy pair of cops shooting a bag lady armed with a screwdriver?

Y'all keep coming up with situations where deadly force is the obvious and only solution. Are any of you capable of understanding that it's not the only solution in most cases? The cops sure have a hell of a hard time understanding that, too.
 
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