Does the soul exist - Apart from the body/brain?

[Schism]

If you believe that's really true, then what are you doing here?

It's entertaining.

You've been corrected with evidence countless times, you just ignore it. Maybe ignoring evidence is the issue, and not lack of evidence...

I never ignore evidence and facts, just peoples opinions; yours for instance.

 

[Luckyone]

Until we better understand consciousness your question cannot be answered.

Biology of Consciousness

The Dynamic Core and Global Workspace hypotheses were independently put forward to provide mechanistic and biologically plausible accounts of how brains generate conscious mental content. The Dynamic Core proposes that reentrant neural activity in the thalamocortical system gives rise to...

www.frontiersin.org

I know there is no "clear" answer but I deal with probabilities and not certainties and to me there is at least a 50-50 chance the soul is different to the body. I personally believe it is.

 

[Luckyone]

Anyone who believes this crap is an idiot.

Why do people think a title brings wisdom or frees one from the programing of their culture?

Dumb, dumb and dumb.

Evidently then, I am an idiot because I do believe this crap.

 

[Mithrae]

Anyone who believes this crap is an idiot.

Why do people think a title brings wisdom or frees one from the programing of their culture?

Dumb, dumb and dumb.

Until there's a compelling scientific answer to the hard problem of consciousness - that is, how objective/quantitative 'material' stuff can give rise to subjective/qualitative mental phenomena - dogmatism such as yours seems more than a little premature. As far as I've ever been able to discern, we can't even conceive or imagine how the nuts and bolts of a 'material' brain could produce the feelings and sensations of a mind... never mind demonstrating that it is actually so.

Hard problem of consciousness - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[noonereal]

Evidently then, I am an idiot because I do believe this crap.

Where does one draw the line at fantasy? This is a very honest question, not meant to provoke.
Just what are your boundaries for believing things with no support in fact, science?

 

[noonereal]

Until there's a compelling scientific answer to the hard problem of consciousness - that is, how objective/quantitative 'material' stuff can give rise to subjective/qualitative mental phenomena - dogmatism such as yours seems more than a little premature. As far as I've ever been able to discern, we can't even conceive or imagine how the nuts and bolts of a 'material' brain could produce the feelings and sensations of a mind... never mind demonstrating that it is actually so.

Hard problem of consciousness - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Its understood in macro. No debate remains in neuroscience or neuropyscology.
We are simply working to discover the micro workings.

 

[Mithrae]

Its understood in macro. No debate remains in neuroscience or neuropyscology.
We are simply working to discover the micro workings.

Sounds like a politician's response, or a preacher's Not a scientific one in any case. We don't have the answers until we actually have the answers, and without a proven or even plausible mechanism, even in concept, by which objective/quantitative stuff can produce or turn into subjective/qualitative stuff, it remains an open question.

Did you know that only ~5% of the mass-energy of the universe is actually understood within a clear framework? The observable mass-energy, that is... god only knows what else is out there that we can't even detect! Dogmatically ruling out ideas which as yet are neither proven nor disproven is the very antithesis of science and reason.

 

[The Old Soul]

No other Old Souls here? Maybe you are, but just don't know it yet. I do see many Infant Souls, baby Souls, with fewer Young Souls and Mature souls mixed in here though - easy to spot if you know what to look for.

One thing to remember, is everything you think, do, say, feel, believe, or know, is simply a chemical reaction in the brain; nothing more, nothing less. To analyze the spiritual concept of the soul using science does not work - only the composition and activity of the brain can be analyzed.

Ever experience an N.D.E. (Near Death Experience)? Ironically virtually all those who have do not fear death in any way, and some actually welcome it; they have seen things through their Spiritual eyes. Like Pink Floyd once sang:
"When I was a child
I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye
I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now
The child is grown
The dream is gone
I have become comfortably numb"

This discussion is not on the right level here, yet. Too many infant souls...

 

[Lisa]

I know there is no "clear" answer but I deal with probabilities and not certainties and to me there is at least a 50-50 chance the soul is different to the body. I personally believe it is.

I doubt that there is a soul. We would also need to prove that there is a creator, which hasn't happened in over 2000 years of searching for any of them.

 

[The Old Soul]

I doubt that there is a soul. We would also need to prove that there is a creator, which hasn't happened in over 2000 years of searching for any of them.

If you doubt a soul (spirit) exists, volunteer as a Respite Caregiver at a Hospice. After a few bedside experiences you will be convinced that death is no more that a re-birth into the next realm, just as your birth into this realm was.

 

[Questerr]

Does the soul exist outside of the body and the brain?



This is not a religious OP as we all know that religions all believe in the afterlife.

Nonetheless, the idea that the soul is something apart from the brain and the body is something that even many scientists believe does exist. That the soul does not die. That it is a form of energy that exists in all of us that remains alive after the body and the brain dies.

There have been too many confirmed cases of dead people whose "ghosts" have stayed around or have come back and I believe that those cases are not a religious resurrection but a soul that has been "strongly emotionally" tied to a person, a location, or a event that was of such consequence that the soul was unable to move on to another "universe" where souls live.

This is a topic of interest to all of us as it is not religion we are talking about but what makes a person who he is. For example, why do we have preferences for one color/flavor/emotion/and person from the moment we are born. Such preferences are not learned, they are there from the beginning. Why are some babies acting like older people from a very young age where others are not. Again, that is not something learned but innate.

What say you? Do souls exist?

One request (if possible), if you are going to answer, do it intelligently and with some information backing your opinion. This OP is not meant to be a play thing, though I know many of you will see it (and use it) as such.

There is no verifiable evidence that a soul exists.

Consciousness is indelibly tied to the brain and doesn’t exist independent from it.

 

[Lisa]

If you doubt a soul (spirit) exists, volunteer as a Respite Caregiver at a Hospice. After a few bedside experiences you will be convinced that death is no more that a re-birth into the next realm, just as your birth into this realm was.

The fact that I am an atheist (Humanist) means that I do not believe in an afterlife. We had no soul before we were born physically and there is no evidence that there is a soul afterward. I've seen a few people die, one of them very violently and I have felt nothing of a soul exiting their body.

 

[Luckyone]

Where does one draw the line at fantasy? This is a very honest question, not meant to provoke.
Just what are your boundaries for believing things with no support in fact, science?

Science is the mind and I believe that the mind and the soul are separate. As such, it is impossible to consider the soul using the mind.

Then again, in my 76 years of living, I have seen "many" things occur that have not been able to be explained by the mind (ghosts for example) and to me that suggests that there is something in the universe that is not explainable by science.

As I stated in the OP, there are many things that are not explainable by science right now and that is seen in every person. Why does one prefer chocolate ice cream to vanilla ice cream (to use the most simple example). Why do we automatically react one way to one person and differently to another (from the moment we are born). Why do we "fall in love" with one person and not another and often without any intelligent or mindful reason?

I do believe that inside of us there is a soul that is totally apart from the mind and the body and that soul is something that we cannot pin understanding of it with science.

That is the simple reason for my beliefs.

 

[beancounter]

Does the soul exist - Apart from the body/brain?​

No.

 

[Questerr]

I have read quite a bit about this and there seems to be a decent chance that the soul is separate from the body and the brain.

There have been many reported encounters of souls separating from their bodies, reported by both the person and the persons around them. These are not scientifically proven but the people themselves fully believe they experienced them or were part of them. People don't necessarily believe the believability of these people and these encounters but there has been so many, that not believing the constancy of them is difficult to throw away.

Here is a link to one of these encounters. Nonetheless, in my life, I have heard or read of this type of event happening on at least 10-15 other occasions. Too many to dismiss.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/12/us/shared-death/

All of those cases involve hallucinogenic drugs or injuries resulting in oxygen deprivation to the brain.

 

[Questerr]

Science is the mind and I believe that the mind and the soul are separate. As such, it is impossible to consider the soul using the mind.

Then again, in my 76 years of living, I have seen "many" things occur that have not been able to be explained by the mind (ghosts for example) and to me that suggests that there is something in the universe that is not explainable by science.

As I stated in the OP, there are many things that are not explainable by science right now and that is seen in every person. Why does one prefer chocolate ice cream to vanilla ice cream (to use the most simple example). Why do we automatically react one way to one person and differently to another (from the moment we are born). Why do we "fall in love" with one person and not another and often without any intelligent or mindful reason?

I do believe that inside of us there is a soul that is totally apart from the mind and the body and that soul is something that we cannot pin understanding of it with science.

That is the simple reason for my beliefs.

How do you objectively prove you actually saw ghosts?

 

[The Old Soul]

Soul Ages Of Our Leaders:

Barrack Obama: Mature level 2, Scholar, Priest. So he is concerned about the world, America and wanting to do what is best, loves information and is a natural leader.

Donald Trump: Young Soul Level 6, King, Scholar. Mr. Trump is concerned with power, money, being in charge and information.

Hillary Clinton: Young Soul Level 7, Scholar, Warrior. Mrs. Clinton is good at creating money and power, but is looking towards relationships, emotional understanding and fairness. She has a get it done attitude in everything she does.

Jeb Bush: Young Soul Level 2, Scholar, Sage. Mr. Bush is power and money hungry, however it never seems within his grasp. He loves information and tries to pass it on through words of wisdom.

Martin O’Malley: Young soul level 7, Sage, Scholar. Mr. O’Malley loves to pass on words of wisdom, but he loves to gather information even more. He is good at making money, power is not so much of a drive for him but he wishes to create a better America.

Ben Carson: Old Soul level 4, Sage, Priest. Mr. Carson is a rarity in politics, an old soul. He is there because he wants to change things for the better, and has the wisdom to do it. He is also a natural leader.

Bernie Sanders: Young soul level 6, King, Scholar. Mr. Sanders, is at the epitome of power and making money. He likes to lead, is good at it and loves to back it up with information.

Chris Christie: Mature Soul Level 7, Sage, Sage. Mr. Christie, is a double Sage, he loves to amass information and pass it on. He wishes to help change things for the better. Has the Mature soul energy and is looking towards Old Soul for balance. He is my personal favorite.

Ted Cruz: Mature Soul Level 1, Scholar, Priest. Mr. Cruz, has less of the need for power and money as the young souls, is more interested in relationships and creating a better America. He loves information and is a natural leader.

Carly Fiorina: Mature Level 4, King, Scholar. Interesting that a Mature Soul would enter this race, however she is a King and wants to lead. Mrs. Fiorina loves information and being a Mature Soul is smack in the middle of where she needs to be.

Jim Gilmore: Young Soul Level 7, Priest, Scholar. Mr. Gilmore is a natural leader first, but loves to amass information. Again being a Young Soul Level 7 he is good at making money and leadership, also is interested in how to integrate these with relationships.

Lindsey Graham: Young Soul Level 5, Sage, Priest. Mr. Graham loves to amass information and pass it along. Is a natural leader, along with being very good at making money as most Young Soul Level 4’s, 5’s, 6’s and some 7’s do.

Mike Huckabee: Young Soul Level 3, Scholar, Warrior. Mr. Huckabee, is still learning to be a Young Soul, power and money, he hasn’t quite got it down yet, but is getting there. He loves information, but is willing to fight, and does things with aggressive power.

John Kasich: Old Soul Level 4, Scholar, Priest. Mr. Kasich, is another Old Soul who wishes to change things for the better. Loves information and is a natural leader.

George Pataki: Old Soul Level 1, Priest, Warrior. Mr. Pataki, is another Old Soul, however still learning how to be an Old Soul. He will have Mature Soul traits of building relationships and a better America. He is a natural leader, but with a warriors aggressiveness.

Paul Rand: Young Soul Level 6, Scholar, Warrior. Mr. Rand has the Power and money making abilities coupled with information gathering, aggressive tactics and drive.

Marco Rubio: Mature Level 4, Scholar, Sage. Mr. Rubio is one who wishes to change things through amassing information and passing it on. He is at the peak of his abilities as a mature soul.

Rick Santorum: Young Soul Level 7, Scholar, King. Mr. Santorum, like many others in the race is an YSL7, has the ability to lead, make money and handle power. He also enjoys leading.

Soul Ages Of Today's Politicians

 

[Luckyone]

All of those cases involve hallucinogenic drugs or injuries resulting in oxygen deprivation to the brain.

That is pure BS as many of those instances have happened to everyday people that have not been on drugs, have injuries or oxygen deprivation.

My own father and several of my aunts and uncles swear that when they were very young and after their father (my grandfather) had died that he saved them from a fire that decimated their home 2 years after their father died. Key to this statement is that it was not just my father but several of my uncles and aunts (My grandfather had 11 children) swear that this happened. I know there are a lot of possible scientific explanations for the occurrance but like that, there have been thousands of examples among many people of something like that occurring.

I was reading the other day about a young man that is a medium that has done over 3000 reading in his life and has amazed people by him relating things from dead people that are impossible for him to know. How can a person know something about someone that he never met before, that has died, and that those things said have never been revealed before?

Explain that away with science.

 

[noonereal]

Sounds like a politician's response, or a preacher's Not a scientific one in any case. We don't have the answers until we actually have the answers, and without a proven or even plausible mechanism, even in concept, by which objective/quantitative stuff can produce or turn into subjective/qualitative stuff, it remains an open question.

Did you know that only ~5% of the mass-energy of the universe is actually understood within a clear framework? The observable mass-energy, that is... god only knows what else is out there that we can't even detect! Dogmatically ruling out ideas which as yet are neither proven nor disproven is the very antithesis of science and reason.

I know so much more than you on the subjects you speak to in this thread that we may as well be from differant planets.
You submit a link to support your posted hooey which is littered with philosophical opinion. With all respect, philosophy is no longer what it was. It has been replaced by science.
You even started this who discussion with a logical fallacy. Do you even know what a logical fallacy is? Honest, do you? Do you know the fallacy you stated with.

Your posts in this thread is the clearest example of not knowing how little you know I can ever remember seeing here.

You would be wise to follow my posts as they will provide you with a guide to established science and more importantly deductive reasoning.

 

[Questerr]

That is pure BS as many of those instances have happened to everyday people that have not been on drugs, have injuries or oxygen deprivation.

My own father and several of my aunts and uncles swear that when they were very young and after their father (my grandfather) had died that he saved them from a fire that decimated their home 2 years after their father died. Key to this statement is that it was not just my father but several of my uncles and aunts (My grandfather had 11 children) swear that this happened. I know there are a lot of possible scientific explanations for the occurrance but like that, there have been thousands of examples among many people of something like that occurring.

I was reading the other day about a young man that is a medium that has done over 3000 reading in his life and has amazed people by him relating things from dead people that are impossible for him to know. How can a person know something about someone that he never met before, that has died, and that those things said have never been revealed before?

Explain that away with science.

You need to look up “Cold Reading” and how scams using it work. None of those supposed “mediums” are legit.

 

[noonereal]

Science is the mind and I believe that the mind and the soul are separate. As such, it is impossible to consider the soul using the mind.

Then again, in my 76 years of living, I have seen "many" things occur that have not been able to be explained by the mind (ghosts for example) and to me that suggests that there is something in the universe that is not explainable by science.

As I stated in the OP, there are many things that are not explainable by science right now and that is seen in every person. Why does one prefer chocolate ice cream to vanilla ice cream (to use the most simple example). Why do we automatically react one way to one person and differently to another (from the moment we are born). Why do we "fall in love" with one person and not another and often without any intelligent or mindful reason?

I do believe that inside of us there is a soul that is totally apart from the mind and the body and that soul is something that we cannot pin understanding of it with science.

That is the simple reason for my beliefs.

All can be understood. Science discovers more daily. Nothing is cloaked from science.

The interesting thing is, I know why you believe as you do, do you?
I doubt it.

Guess how I know.

Yep, science.

 

[Luckyone]

I doubt that there is a soul. We would also need to prove that there is a creator, which hasn't happened in over 2000 years of searching for any of them.

A creator is not a necessity when considering the soul is different to the mind/body. There are a lot of things in life that exist that cannot be explained by science, meaning that even if the "big bang" theory is what happened, it does not mean that souls may not have been created in that big bang. There are still many things we know very little (or nothing) about the universe.

 

[Mr Person]

Science is the mind and I believe that the mind and the soul are separate. As such, it is impossible to consider the soul using the mind.

Then again, in my 76 years of living, I have seen "many" things occur that have not been able to be explained by the mind (ghosts for example) and to me that suggests that there is something in the universe that is not explainable by science.

As I stated in the OP, there are many things that are not explainable by science right now and that is seen in every person. Why does one prefer chocolate ice cream to vanilla ice cream (to use the most simple example). Why do we automatically react one way to one person and differently to another (from the moment we are born). Why do we "fall in love" with one person and not another and often without any intelligent or mindful reason?

I do believe that inside of us there is a soul that is totally apart from the mind and the body and that soul is something that we cannot pin understanding of it with science.

That is the simple reason for my beliefs.

"We can't explain" does not support "therefore, it is more likely that ______". That's actually an argument from ignorance.

 

[Questerr]

A creator is not a necessity when considering the soul is different to the mind/body. There are a lot of things in life that exist that cannot be explained by science, meaning that even if the "big bang" theory is what happened, it does not mean that souls may not have been created in that big bang. There are still many things we know very little (or nothing) about the universe.

There is zero variable evidence that any kind of “soul” exists, let alone that it is separate from the mind/body.

 

[Luckyone]

You need to look up “Cold Reading” and how scams using it work. None of those supposed “mediums” are legit.

"None of those supposed mediums are legit"...............and you know this to be a fact or "believe it" to be a fact?

By the way "cold reading" does not explain something that was said between two people that no one ever knew was said, and I mean "specific" words and events that happened.

I do not for one second doubt that the large portion of Mediums are scams. Nonetheless, in history there have been many mediums that stated or predicted something before the fact that were never paid to say, had no personal benefit in saying them, or that had any clues that would help them say it.

Evidently, you have not done much research on the topic. I have done a fair amount and am presently expanding my research on it.

Start here:

11 epic mysteries scientists totally can’t solve​