Does the Greenhouse effect really exist?

[Deuce]

Is the earth in imminent danger from water and heat damage? Yes? Do the thing(s) that will decrease those chances of water and heat damage.


It's pretty simple. Global warming is based on the effect greenhouse gases have on increases of temperature. Water vapor comprises 95% of all greenhouse gases. CO2 isn't even the strongest greenhouse gas. In other words, methane is about 23 times more effective in trapping heat in the atmosphere than CO2.

If we are in imminent danger of water and heat damage due to global warming, do all the things we can possibly do to retard greenhouse gases in the environment. Your argument of absolute vs. delta examines the changes of amounts of greenhouse gases as if that's most important. It isn't unless your ideology is man creates global warming. It isn't if we are in imminent danger of water and heat damage from global warming.

The change in greenhouse gasses is important because its the change in climate we're concerned with. The goal isn't "make earth as cold as possible" and I have no idea why you think it is. I also have no idea what you mean with the term "heat damage." We're not at risk of, like, burning, dude.

We want the earth's climate to remain as stable as possible. Surely that makes sense as a goal. Now, we don't actually have control over most of the major factors (solar activity, volcanoes, ENSO, orbital changes, etc) so instead we'll focus on the factors we do affect. Greenhouse gasses. Primarily, CO2 and methane as those are the ones we release in the largest quantities. Of the few dials we do have access to, it's wise to fiddle with them as little as possible, wouldn't you agree?

We could try to counteract natural changes. Sun goes up, we make CO2 go down. Sun goes down, we make CO2 go up. Try and balance things out to improve stability. Personally, I think we're a far cry from knowing enough to attempt geoengineering. It's too risky.

But wait. Geoengineering is exactly what we're doing, right this instant. We're cranking up on some of those dials right now.

 

[spud_meister]

Really? is that all you can write? Or can you point out what is hilarious and why?


I can guess what...

Water breaks pipes because water molecules repel each other at small distances. Light keeps the same amount of energy going through glass as air, it doesn’t lose energy.

 

[cabse5]

The change in greenhouse gasses is important because its the change in climate we're concerned with. The goal isn't "make earth as cold as possible" and I have no idea why you think it is. I also have no idea what you mean with the term "heat damage." We're not at risk of, like, burning, dude.

We want the earth's climate to remain as stable as possible. Surely that makes sense as a goal. Now, we don't actually have control over most of the major factors (solar activity, volcanoes, ENSO, orbital changes, etc) so instead we'll focus on the factors we do affect. Greenhouse gasses. Primarily, CO2 and methane as those are the ones we release in the largest quantities. Of the few dials we do have access to, it's wise to fiddle with them as little as possible, wouldn't you agree?

We could try to counteract natural changes. Sun goes up, we make CO2 go down. Sun goes down, we make CO2 go up. Try and balance things out to improve stability. Personally, I think we're a far cry from knowing enough to attempt geoengineering. It's too risky.

But wait. Geoengineering is exactly what we're doing, right this instant. We're cranking up on some of those dials right now.

OK. Other than environmentalists trying to control man's effect on environment, what are environmentalists doing to make the earth's climates the same? By this time one would have to assume environmentalists have realized there are many factors other than just man responsible for climate change.

BTW, I find it ironic that the goals of environmentalists have gone from global warming to climate change. Was the global warming - that the earth would be drowned or burned - 'hoax' perpetrated by environmentalists just to instigate a general sense of fear and awareness of climate issues?

 

[cabse5]

Environmentalists in China have seeded clouds using a solid form of CO2, dry ice, for example, to reduce droughts. China's project to control the weather in a bid to combat drought and natural disasters | Daily Mail Online

Environmentalists have also concluded that emissions of volcanoes have cooled the earth. The next step would be to artificially create a volcano that wouldn't do other undue damage to the environment. Volcanoes ARE cooling Earth and have reduced temperatures and tropical rainfall | Daily Mail Online

It seems to me environmentalists are going above and beyond just trying to stabilize climate. That, IMO, can be a good thing.

Hypothetically, would environmentalists consider the negative impact of 'experiments' to create 'livable' environments acceptable? Would they consider the negative impacts of failed experiments to create 'livable' climate acceptable?

 

[Deuce]

OK. Other than environmentalists trying to control man's effect on environment, what are environmentalists doing to make the earth's climates the same? By this time one would have to assume environmentalists have realized there are many factors other than just man responsible for climate change.

BTW, I find it ironic that the goals of environmentalists have gone from global warming to climate change. Was the global warming - that the earth would be drowned or burned - 'hoax' perpetrated by environmentalists just to instigate a general sense of fear and awareness of climate issues?

Nobody is trying to "make the earth's climates the same." Why would they?

By the way, both terms "global warming" and "climate change" have been around for at least 40 years.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Thread..

 

[Pin dÁr]

Water breaks pipes because water molecules repel each other

You didn't answer the question where the power is coming from.

at small distances. Light keeps the same amount of energy going through glass as air, it doesn’t lose energy.

Errr, yes it does. well speed that is, when it exist it gets back to its 'normal' higher speel. Where is the energy for that coming from?
No one knows!!!

 

[Pin dÁr]

Nobody is trying to "make the earth's climates the same." Why would they?

By the way, both terms "global warming" and "climate change" have been around for at least 40 years.

Nope Global warming was changed to climate change when it was fouind out there was no warming,


Actually we are enteing an ice-age.

 

[Pin dÁr]

View attachment 67205360

Thread..

A stupid formula!!!!! Now everything is allright!!!1



man o man.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

A stupid formula!!!!! Now everything is allright!!!1



man o man.

The point is by questioning the greenhouse effect, you are questioning the laws of thermal physics.

 

[Pin dÁr]

The point is by questioning the greenhouse effect, you are questioning the laws of thermal physics.

Oh really? And that is forbidden or what?



But I really don''t.

 

[cabse5]

The change in greenhouse gasses is important because its the change in climate we're concerned with. The goal isn't "make earth as cold as possible" and I have no idea why you think it is. I also have no idea what you mean with the term "heat damage." We're not at risk of, like, burning, dude.

We want the earth's climate to remain as stable as possible. Surely that makes sense as a goal. Now, we don't actually have control over most of the major factors (solar activity, volcanoes, ENSO, orbital changes, etc) so instead we'll focus on the factors we do affect. Greenhouse gasses. Primarily, CO2 and methane as those are the ones we release in the largest quantities. Of the few dials we do have access to, it's wise to fiddle with them as little as possible, wouldn't you agree?

We could try to counteract natural changes. Sun goes up, we make CO2 go down. Sun goes down, we make CO2 go up. Try and balance things out to improve stability. Personally, I think we're a far cry from knowing enough to attempt geoengineering. It's too risky.

But wait. Geoengineering is exactly what we're doing, right this instant. We're cranking up on some of those dials right now.

Explain this post, then. Particularly the part I've bolded.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Oh really? And that is forbidden or what?



But I really don''t.

Physical laws exist whether you believe in them or not. Your refusal to believe in them is nothing more than a personal human construct. In that regard, its not different than your refusing to believe in gravity and jumping off a building because you believe you will not fall. Gravity will act upon you either way. Similarly, the laws of thermal physics exist regardless.

Let me give you the following example of the greenhouse effect in action:

The planet Mercury is 35.98 million miles from the sun. The planet Venus is 67 million miles from the sun. The average surface temperature on Mercury is 800 degrees Fahrenheit. Mercury has very little atmosphere (the least of any planet in the solar system). The average surface temperature on Venus is 864 degrees Fahrenheit. Venus has an extremely dense atmosphere that is 96% carbon dioxide. Thus even though Venus is nearly twice as far from the Sun as Mercury is, its average surface temperature is hotter than Mercury's is due to the greenhouse effect in Venus' atmosphere.

 

[spud_meister]

You didn't answer the question where the power is coming from.

It comes from the repulsive forces in the water molecules. Like rrying to push negative magnets together.

Errr, yes it does. well speed that is, when it exist it gets back to its 'normal' higher speel. Where is the energy for that coming from?
No one knows!!!

It doesn’t gain or lose energy, all that changes is the resistance against it. It speeds up again because it needs less energy to travel through air than glass.

 

[Deuce]

Nope Global warming was changed to climate change when it was fouind out there was no warming,


Actually we are enteing an ice-age.

if I show you the term being used decades ago, would you admit to being wrong about "global warming" vs "climate change?"

 

[Deuce]

Explain this post, then. Particularly the part I've bolded.

It means we want to let nature take its course as much as possible, without our interference. Because we don't understand the dials very well.

Rapidly changing climate, regardless of why it changes, is harmful to life on this planet. Evolution only works so fast, and some species just aren't going to make it. Some of those species are plants that we eat, so we'd like them to remain healthy. (I could give a rats ass about polar bears. Polar bears are ice monsters and aren't tasty) A stable climate is good for that. Sometimes the climate changes rapidly on its own. That wont be great for us, but there's not really anything we can do about that so why spend time and effort on it?

Stable doesn't mean completely unchanging or completely uniform. I mean, it could, if we were magic space wizards with a weather control machine. But we're not space wizards, so we'll set more realistic goals like "let's not **** with climate so much, particularly when we don't understand it very well."

I want to stop playing with dials when we can't predict the outcome. Is that really so unreasonable?

 

[Lord of Planar]

I am not saying there is no infrared. I am saying it has nothing to do with the greenhouse effect.

The greenhouse effect is all about trapping longwave. Though the earth isn't a greenhouse, it is probably the closest simile.

 

[Deuce]

The greenhouse effect is all about trapping longwave. Though the earth isn't a greenhouse, it is probably the closest simile.

you're talking to a guy who thinks the greenhouse effect has to do with convection.

 

[Lord of Planar]

well, I am wondering. There is something fishy about the whole thing.

One thing is for sure, IR has nothing to do with that.

Again, IR has everything to do with it.

 

[Lord of Planar]

you're talking to a guy who thinks the greenhouse effect has to do with convection.

I guess some people have a hard time comprehending what cannot be seen or touched.

 

[Pin dÁr]

Again, IR has everything to do with it.

nice video, but wrong though,

 

[Pin dÁr]

It comes from the repulsive forces in the water molecules. Like rrying to push negative magnets together.



It doesn’t gain or lose energy, all that changes is the resistance against it. It speeds up again because it needs less energy to travel through air than glass.

again, where is the energy coming from?

 

[Pin dÁr]

Let me give you the following example of the greenhouse effect in action:

The planet Mercury is 35.98 million miles from the sun. The planet Venus is 67 million miles from the sun. The average surface temperature on Mercury is 800 degrees Fahrenheit. Mercury has very little atmosphere (the least of any planet in the solar system). The average surface temperature on Venus is 864 degrees Fahrenheit. Venus has an extremely dense atmosphere that is 96% carbon dioxide. Thus even though Venus is nearly twice as far from the Sun as Mercury is, its average surface temperature is hotter than Mercury's is due to the greenhouse effect in Venus' atmosphere.

Onky parroting the official line eh?! Please don't tell me you have this figured out all by yourself now eh?!


Nice try though.

 

[spud_meister]

again, where is the energy coming from?

For water? From the polar nature of the hydrogen bonds. For light? the energy is the photons, it takes more energy for them to move through a denser material, so they go slower because their energy doesn't change, they speed up upon exiting the glass because they have the same amount of energy, but air is less dense than glass, so they can move faster.

 

[Pin dÁr]

For water? From the polar nature of the hydrogen bonds. For light? the energy is the photons, it takes more energy for them to move through a denser material, so they go slower because their energy doesn't change, they speed up upon exiting the glass because they have the same amount of energy, but air is less dense than glass, so they can move faster.

Nope, they have to accelarate, that takes energy/power. You still haven't answered my question where this energy is coming from!