• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Does the father have a right to stop an abortion?

Does a father have the right to stop an abortion?

  • No, mother's choice only.

    Votes: 23 60.5%
  • Yes, a father has rights too.

    Votes: 11 28.9%
  • abortion should be illegal.

    Votes: 4 10.5%

  • Total voters
    38

Magill

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2010
Messages
158
Reaction score
51
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Then that would be "pro-state choice to regulate and even ban post viability" per RvW section 11.

(a) For the stage prior to approximately the end of the first trimester, the abortion decision and its effectuation must be left to the medical judgment of the pregnant woman's attending physician.

(b) For the stage subsequent to approximately the end of the first trimester, the State, in promoting its interest in the health of the mother, may, if it chooses, regulate the abortion procedure in ways that are reasonably related to maternal health.

(c) For the stage subsequent to viability, the State in promoting its interest in the potentiality of human life [410 U.S. 113, 165] may, if it chooses, regulate, and even proscribe, abortion except where it is necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother.

Yep.

FindLaw | Cases and Codes
 

Magill

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2010
Messages
158
Reaction score
51
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Hey,.. I'm just as pro-choice as you are on elective abortion, Mag.

We simply differ on what the consequences for some of the choices people make should be.


Oh, please share your opinions. I am very intrigued.
 

1069

Banned
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
24,975
Reaction score
5,126
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Oh, please share your opinions. I am very intrigued.

I can clear this up: he's "pro" the "right" of a fetus to occupy the body of an unwilling human host, and extract her to bodily resources without her consent, unless this will result in her imminent death. And except in cases of rape (gotta love the consistency, lol).

In other words, he's for "rights" that do not exist, and against rights that do exist, ie the right of a woman to control her own reproductive functions.
 
Last edited:

mac

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
22,499
Reaction score
4,266
Location
DC Metro
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
I can clear this up: he's "pro" the "right" of a fetus to occupy the body of an unwilling human host, and extract her to bodily resources without her consent, unless this will result in her imminent death. And except in cases of rape (gotta love the consistency, lol).

In other words, he's for "rights" that do not exist, and against rights that do exist, ie the right of a woman to control her own reproductive functions.

If she had excercised such right to begin with, then there wouldn't need be a discussion, would there?
 

Goshin

Burned Out Ex-Mod
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
46,641
Reaction score
51,885
Location
Dixie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
If the mother and father are at odds on whether to have an abortion, they should have to have their dispute adjudicated in family court. A judge will hear arguments from both sides, and determine whose reasons for aborting or keeping the baby form a perponderance of evidence supporting their position.

It is the only fair way to do it. As things currently stand, the mother is liable for 9 months and the father is accountable for 18 years... and the father has no say either way. Unbalanced.
 

Infinite Chaos

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
19,235
Reaction score
9,093
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I think a lot of people fail to realize the circumstances in which this might be an issue. Most people's responses are "the both should have been more responsible" . . . which is a true point. However - a lot of these types of paternity-fights happen with MARRIED couples who fall apart during pregnancy due to one reason or another.

The nature of the relationship and the situation surrounding the pregnancy STRONGLY dictates what can and cannot happen.
If a couple is married and she's pregnant and *then* something happens - they split - he absolutely should have the right to demand she carry that baby if he 100% will take care of the child.

Also the man should not have a legal say because at that point he can not legally prove he is the biological father.

I'm quoting these two posts as they introduce the last and most heinous [art of the unfair position some fathers come into where a mother decides she does not wish to gestate OR keep the baby after birth.

I've already stated my position regarding a father being able to rescind responsibility during gestation if he does not wish to be a father - however what about those fathers who do want the child?

In the US, the father (when he knows the mother does not wish to keep the born child) has to find and sign his local state "putative father" registry - registering an interest in the unborn child. There may be three consequences of this action
1) the mother agrees to carry to term and hands the child over
2) the mother decides (if she is still "early") to abort either because she doesn't want to carry to term or because she wants to deny him the child.
3) the mother rescinds her wish to abort and could hand the child over to the father (very rare) or keep it herself and then make him pay child support and he might even have to fight through court for contact / access / visitation (whatever it's called in your country)

In the UK, the father has to make sure his name is recorded on the birth certificate ONCE the child is born.

Failure to do either and the mother can still quite easily decide to hand the child over for adoption. The father then has the expense of trying to reverse this through court and many judges still side with mother (if it even gets to court).

So in essence at present, a mother has sole choice over whether to abort, if she decides to continue to gestation she can simply hand over the child to an adoption agency. If the father didn't sign a "putative father register" or make sure his name went on the birth certificate - she gets to take away his parental responsibility too.

In all cases, the laws and procedures are heavily against the father (and child).
 

1069

Banned
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
24,975
Reaction score
5,126
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
So in essence at present, a mother has sole choice over whether to abort...

That is never likely to change.
I would point out, however, that a pregnant girl or woman is not a "mother", except to any previous children she may have borne.
At best, such women are sometimes colloquially referred to as "mothers to be".... except that if she's aborting, she won't be a mother, so that designation doesn't make any sense, in such a context.
 

Infinite Chaos

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
19,235
Reaction score
9,093
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
That is never likely to change.
--

Thanks 1069, I wouldn't ever argue against a woman having the choce to abort within the first 24 weeks anyway.
 

Real Korimyr #9

Not Myself, I'm a Replica of Me
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Messages
20,105
Reaction score
16,152
Location
Cheyenne, WY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I've already stated my position regarding a father being able to rescind responsibility during gestation if he does not wish to be a father - however what about those fathers who do want the child?

A man who wants children should find a woman who wishes to bear his children and help him raise them, and then marry her. Until then, he simply should not get attached to children that might not be his.
 

Goshin

Burned Out Ex-Mod
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
46,641
Reaction score
51,885
Location
Dixie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
A man who wants children should find a woman who wishes to bear his children and help him raise them, and then marry her. Until then, he simply should not get attached to children that might not be his.


In the current legal situation, your point makes pragmatic sense.

However, it could be construed as "be careful who you have sex with, especially unprotected sex, and be aware there may be consequences involving either unwanted pregnancy or abortion, because those decisions may be made without you but still affect you profoundly."

While this is true, the flip side is that when anyone tries to tell that same truth to women in general, screams of indignation and cries of "my body my choice" echo to the very heavens. :mrgreen:

The current situation is far from legally balanced between the two individuals who collaborated to make the baby and who may be held responsible for the child for up to 18 years.
 

Shewter

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
1,995
Reaction score
683
Location
Puget Sound
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
So when a man wants to get a vasectomy, should his wife also have to approve of the procedure before he gets it?

Are you saying having a child is equal to severing a vein in the male genetalia?

I get your point, however I disagree with the "majority" it would seem. I believe that if it took two to create the child, it should take two to make the decision to fulfill or terminate the pregnancy. Women's body/right/etc is B.S. Just as much as Men's body/right/etc. They are BOTH required for the conception, they should BOTH be required for the DECISION.
 

Jerry

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
51,123
Reaction score
15,259
Location
United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Are you saying having a child is equal to severing a vein in the male genetalia?

I get your point, however I disagree with the "majority" it would seem. I believe that if it took two to create the child, it should take two to make the decision to fulfill or terminate the pregnancy. Women's body/right/etc is B.S. Just as much as Men's body/right/etc. They are BOTH required for the conception, they should BOTH be required for the DECISION.

I would grant that if they are not married then it should be the mother's sole decision.

If they are married, then yes the man's consent should be required for the abortion.
 

earthworm

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
5,728
Reaction score
904
Location
Goldsboro,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
In a "perfect" world, abortion and other "crimes" would neither be legal nor illegal.
Right now man is struggling just to achieve civilization, so, and correctly so, abortion is legal..
Strange, is it not, that murder is legal.....We have a long ways to go.
Out of decency, the father must have a voice in this matter..
I doubt if decency exists in our society; its logical that the baby in the womb has the greatest say in his survival in this hard and cruel world.
It has to be, at this point in time, a matter of the fathers rights - on a legal basis...
But, if the baby in the womb has no rights, why should anyone else?
 

Real Korimyr #9

Not Myself, I'm a Replica of Me
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Messages
20,105
Reaction score
16,152
Location
Cheyenne, WY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
In the current legal situation, your point makes pragmatic sense.

The post reflects my ideal view. The current law is even worse, with men being subjected to the woman's decision with absolutely no recourse. I would ideally like to be able to say the same thing to women-- that if they wish to raise a child with a man, they'd best be certain that the feeling is mutual.

However, it could be construed as "be careful who you have sex with, especially unprotected sex, and be aware there may be consequences involving either unwanted pregnancy or abortion, because those decisions may be made without you but still affect you profoundly."

Another practical argument that applies no matter what the current legal situation is.
 

Magill

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2010
Messages
158
Reaction score
51
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
I can clear this up: he's "pro" the "right" of a fetus to occupy the body of an unwilling human host, and extract her to bodily resources without her consent, unless this will result in her imminent death. And except in cases of rape (gotta love the consistency, lol).

In other words, he's for "rights" that do not exist, and against rights that do exist, ie the right of a woman to control her own reproductive functions.

Yup, I figured that is where the word games were coming into play. Thanks, I have been gone for awhile.
 
Top Bottom