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Does the Bible Condone Slavery?

Cordelier said:
So you don't take the references to Moses in Manetho's Aegyptiaca (ca. 250 B.C.) to be credible?
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That refers to the Egyptian Osarsiph, not the Hebrew Moses of the Exodus myth. Another borrowed "grain of truth" sewn into the fabric of fiction.


OM
 
Cordelier said:
So it was a kinder, gentler form of slavery?

I'm not trying to be trite or anything.... but I assume most Christians don't condone slavery anymore because they recognize that it's wrong.
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Sorry but an alarming number of modern day evangelicals are trying to pass off American slavery as if it was a relatively benign period, and some even claim that slavery was GOOD FOR African Americans.

And make no mistake about it, Richard Spencer is a supporter of evangelical causes, and for those who do not buy into Spencer's too vague brand of Christian Identity, there's always the stronger religious rhetoric of Vladimir Putin.

Christians who reject this evil nonsense are branded BY evangelicals as "liberal traitors" and "Christian communists".
In fact, the entire weapons grade historical revisionist schism going on right now in Christendom consists of the notion that Jesus was NOT a kind and generous spiritual healer who espoused mildly socialist forms of giving and upward mobility, but rather a lover of wealth and a sword to the gut to the poor, who are poor solely because of their wickedness.

Nothing remains more true than the fact that one can use The Bible to justify a blitheringly wide range of evils and that truth has held for many millennia and it holds fast today. The Bible can be used to justify slavery, to demonize the poor, to enforce racial purity, and almost anything else you can imagine.

biblical_marriage_chart.jpg

And it's not just true of The Bible, it's true of the scriptuires of all three of the Great Abrahamic Faiths, Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

BiblicalAid.jpg
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Sorry but an alarming number of modern day evangelicals are trying to pass off American slavery as if it was a relatively benign period, and some even claim that slavery was GOOD FOR African Americans.

And make no mistake about it, Richard Spencer is a supporter of evangelical causes, and for those who do not buy into Spencer's too vague brand of Christian Identity, there's always the stronger religious rhetoric of Vladimir Putin.

Christians who reject this evil nonsense are branded BY evangelicals as "liberal traitors" and "Christian communists".
In fact, the entire weapons grade historical revisionist schism going on right now in Christendom consists of the notion that Jesus was NOT a kind and generous spiritual healer who espoused mildly socialist forms of giving and upward mobility, but rather a lover of wealth and a sword to the gut to the poor, who are poor solely because of their wickedness.


Nothing remains more true than the fact that one can use The Bible to justify a blitheringly wide range of evils and that truth has held for many millennia and it holds fast today. The Bible can be used to justify slavery, to demonize the poor, to enforce racial purity, and almost anything else you can imagine.
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Jesus, Checkerboard.... if there's anything the human mind is good at, it's manufacturing justification. We've never needed a book for that, have we?
 
Cordelier said:
Jesus, Checkerboard.... if there's anything the human mind is good at, it's manufacturing justification. We've never needed a book for that, have we?
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You got dat right.
Yup, these are verses written not by some so called deity but by mere mortal men.
There is no magical mystery hand writing this stuff, never was.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
You got dat right.
Yup, these are verses written not by some so called deity but by mere mortal men.
There is no magical mystery hand writing this stuff, never was.
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You know what I've never gotten in the never-ending battle between religious types and atheists? Why the constant need to prove the other wrong or to put down the other's beliefs?

Why not just let people decide for themselves if they want to have spiritual beliefs or not?

Personally, I kind of look at religion - any religion - kind of the same way I look at Chinese medicine.... modern science may put it down and denigrate it, but would people still be doing it for 2,000+ years if there was really nothing to it?
 
Cordelier said:
You know what I've never gotten in the never-ending battle between religious types and atheists? Why the constant need to prove the other wrong or to put down the other's beliefs?

Why not just let people decide for themselves if they want to have spiritual beliefs or not?

Personally, I kind of look at religion - any religion - kind of the same way I look at Chinese medicine.... modern science may put it down and denigrate it, but would people still be doing it for 2,000+ years if there was really nothing to it?
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When my brother wants me to attend church with him, I do it.
When the guy who married my wife and I wants us to come to one of the services where he's a choir director, we go.
When my mother was still alive and she wanted me to attend one of her Catholic services, I went, despite having "fallen away" many years ago.
When my father (who was Jewish) was still alive and wanted me to go to temple, I went.

I have no trouble respecting the church beliefs of someone else, it's just not something I personally believe and I've never found any kind of "church" fellowship that would espouse what I do believe, so for me it's a DIY thing, I guess.
But if there was, Carl Sagan might be the "pastor"...if he wanted the job, that is.

PS: The guy that did our wedding ceremony? The choir director? He catches a ration of **** from his own church because he happens to be like so many other black choir directors...gay...openly gay.
I don't know how he puts up with it either. He's a wonderful person who doesn't deserve the harassment.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
When my brother wants me to attend church with him, I do it.
When the guy who married my wife and I wants us to come to one of the services where he's a choir director, we go.
When my mother was still alive and she wanted me to attend one of her Catholic services, I went, despite having "fallen away" many years ago.
When my father (who was Jewish) was still alive and wanted me to go to temple, I went.

I have no trouble respecting the church beliefs of someone else, it's just not something I personally believe and I've never found any kind of "church" fellowship that would espouse what I do believe, so for me it's a DIY thing, I guess.
But if there was, Carl Sagan might be the "pastor"...if he wanted the job, that is.
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That's cool.... I can respect that. Frankly, I'm a little in awe... your mom was Catholic and your dad was Jewish? *LOL* I'm just surprised you didn't join a cult or something.
 
Cordelier said:
That's cool.... I can respect that. Frankly, I'm a little in awe... your mom was Catholic and your dad was Jewish? *LOL* I'm just surprised you didn't join a cult or something.
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Wartime...WW2.
She came over with her family about age ten or so, fleeing Mussolini.
My mom fell for him when they were in night school.
He was smuggled over here in the belly of a steam freighter, ahead of his father who was caught and taken to Auschwitz before he could get all the family affairs in order. Meanwhile he finally gets a green card and then winds up right back in Germany all over again fighting Nazis, because native German speakers with advanced electronics and engineering are valuable to the American army. He took two Nazi bullets to the neck and was brought back to the military hospital in Atlanta GA for six months of rehab and made a full recovery. The bullets had missed his vitals by "a red c***t hair", as the old saying goes.

HER family (the Italians) were a little taken aback by him at first but he charmed them and they all decided they liked him.
HIS parents finally get out...his father had to turn over the entire family fortune, 25 million Marks in GOLD to get released (that's almost a half billion dollars today)
HIS father (German Jew Auschwitz survivor) liked my mom immediately, Italian Catholic or not, he just liked her right away but the mother in law didn't because she "wasn't a nice Jewish girl".

It was actually kind of funny...he brought her over for dinner, and his mother made chicken...on a FRIDAY, when Catholics at that time weren't allowed to eat meat on Fridays.
She pushed everything around and around on her plate looking nervously.

(Dad) "What's wrong dear, you don't like it?"
(Mom) "It's a sin for me to eat meat on...."
(Dad) "Omigosh I'd forgotten" (whispers to his father, who suddenly realizes the problem)

It turns out my paternal grandmother DID KNOW that Catholics aren't allowed to eat meat on Fridays, this was a passive aggressive move on her part. Anyway, grandfather pushes her into the kitchen and they are going at it, my mom is sitting there with my dad...
Finally my grandfather and grandmother come back out and my grandfather says:

"Listen liebchien, I was not always going to be a banker, I once considered studying to be a rabbi, wait one moment please."
Then he waves his hands over the chicken and says, "You're not a chicken, you're a FISH...You're not a chicken, you're a FISH...You're not a chicken, you're a FISH!"

So what happened? My mom ate the "fish" and then promptly went to confession the next day to "confess her sins".
The Irish priest listened carefully and then said, "I don't see any sin, he blessed the chicken and performed a miracle. Believe me, God understands."


So, I guess if Hitler hadn't come along, I would have grown up as my father did, a "poor little rich boy", with a lot of dough.
My grandfather had been president of the Frankfurt World Bank, which is to say, he was the banker to the Rothschild Family in Germany.
His partner was Louis Rothschild. Louis, who had been imprisoned by the Gestapo and also ransomed by his family, had taken up residence in New York, stripped of all his fortune as well.

Hugo Haas (my grandfather) lived in a palatial estate in Frankfurt am-Main that took up an entire city block. They had their own lake in back of the residence, and six limousines and eighteen servants. He returned from Auschwitz after surviving daily beatings for two years, a physically broken man, half blind and mostly deaf, but still with the same spirit.

(my grandfather and father rowing on their private lake)

hugohaas1925a.jpg

(After the war, in New York)

HugoHaasErnaHaas1949.jpg
 
Cordelier said:
That's cool.... I can respect that. Frankly, I'm a little in awe... your mom was Catholic and your dad was Jewish? *LOL* I'm just surprised you didn't join a cult or something.
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Actually if you spend enough time in New York, you will discover that there are actually quite a few of us "Jew-talians" running around.
Oh yeah, almost forgot the famous running gag:

"My mom is Catholic, my father is Jewish, and I'm in therapy."

It actually became an off-Broadway show for a while, it's still playing somewhere in the country.

But in reality it all worked out just fine. We were raised Catholic, even though it didn't "stick" with us three boys, but we got a dose of the Jewish stuff as well, and the important thing we learned is that, if there is a God, he expects the same of you no matter what faith you follow...be a good human being to your fellow man in all that you do.

PS: My paternal grandmother DID come around, by the way. She only put on the act in the very beginning.
After that, she became my mom's biggest fan, certainly after my mom gave her three grandsons.

JeffHernahaas1.jpg
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Wartime...WW2.
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Wow.... I knew there was going to be a good story there - but I had no idea it was going to be this good. Thanks for sharing it with me, Checkerboard. You need to sit down someday and put their stories in a book. Seriously.

I was going to ask how your dad's folks reacted to their son marrying a "goyim" to try and get the story... even had it typed out, but then I realized that not too many of those stories have "the in-laws"... let alone the happy endings. I'm glad your's did. :)
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Actually if you spend enough time in New York, you will discover that there are actually quite a few of us "Jew-talians" running around.
Oh yeah, almost forgot the famous running gag:

"My mom is Catholic, my father is Jewish, and I'm in therapy."

It actually became an off-Broadway show for a while, it's still playing somewhere in the country.

But in reality it all worked out just fine. We were raised Catholic, even though it didn't "stick" with us three boys, but we got a dose of the Jewish stuff as well, and the important thing we learned is that, if there is a God, he expects the same of you no matter what faith you follow...be a good human being to your fellow man in all that you do.

PS: My paternal grandmother DID come around, by the way. She only put on the act in the very beginning.
After that, she became my mom's biggest fan, certainly after my mom gave her three grandsons.

View attachment 67247169
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I've been to New York a lot.... used to go out with a girl from Joisey - she was a half Sicilian/half Irish redhead. Yeah. *L* That relationship kinda scared me the **** out of the Tri-States area.
 
Cordelier said:
Wow.... I knew there was going to be a good story there - but I had no idea it was going to be this good. Thanks for sharing it with me, Checkerboard. You need to sit down someday and put their stories in a book. Seriously.

I was going to ask how your dad's folks reacted to their son marrying a "goyim" to try and get the story... even had it typed out, but then I realized that not too many of those stories have "the in-laws"... let alone the happy endings. I'm glad your's did. :)
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One of my earliest memories was my folks playing this comedy album by Allan Sherman.



Followed by this comedy album about a "nice Catholic family"...who just happened to be in the White House at the time.

220px-TFF_cover.jpg


 
Cordelier said:
I've been to New York a lot.... used to go out with a girl from Joisey - she was a half Sicilian/half Irish redhead. Yeah. *L* That relationship kinda scared me the **** out of the Tri-States area.
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Italian-Irish is another excellent combination.
The Irish smooths out some of the Southern Italian swarthiness and the Southern Italian spices up the bland potato-ey white bread genetics in the Irish. Italian-Irish kids wind up looking like movie stars. My cousins all look like movie stars, that's for sure.
That's the other side...my Italian uncle married a gorgeous Irish girl and they had a mess of good looking kids.

But I'll be the first to admit that you're mixing two very outrageous sets of personality traits, so it requires a lot of nerve.
And then there's my aunt, who married an Irish guy, and they had a mess of good looking kids as well.
I am best friends with the middle son, of course I'm besties with all of them but this one in particular, he grew up looking a lot like Roger Daltrey of The Who, but then he cut off his sun drenched blonde locks and then the trouble really started, because by now he looked so much like JFK Jr. that papparazzi would get fooled and I recall many times where we'd be going somewhere and they'd be following us.

It actually became a problem for a little while because just as soon as one bunch would figure out that he WASN'T JFK Junior, another handful would suddenly think he was.

Fast forward to today, he is retired, young and very wealthy and for fun he is the front man vocalist/guitarist for one of the best Allman Brothers tribute bands in the country, one that Gregg Allman specifically gave a thumbs up to.

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And his son is a musician here in L.A. with his own deep following.
Also a gorgeous Irish-Italian guy, has to beat back the legions of girls falling at his feet.

MarshallGallagher.jpg
 
Elvira said:
I see this argument come up often here...the fact is, slavery in Bible times was much different than the slavery we are familiar with today, as J Wallace brings out...



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Revisionism at it's worst.


Slavery is slavery is slavery.


I've seen Matt Dillahunty on the Internet TV show "The Atheist Experience" say that the Bible advocates slavery.
It does not.

The Bible accepts slavery as a fact of life. As such it does condone slavery.

The Bible advocates slavery in the same way that the state of Georgia advocates gun ownership. Apart from a bunch of gun nuts in Kennesaw, the state of Georgia doesn't advocate that residents own a gun.

However it recognizes that the 2nd amenedment exists and the rulings of the US Supreme Court and accepts people may own guns.
The state of Georgia sys "OK you can own a gun if you want to, but if you do, these are the rules you must adhere to"


The Bible is the same with slavery.
It recognizes that slavery is a fact of life and says "OK if you want own a slave or slaves, these are the basic rules you must adhere to..."
One rule is of course that you shouldn't beat a slave so hard that he/she dies within 48 hours of the beating.

Slavery is immoral so by our standards, the Bible is immoral.

500 years from now, people might think early 21st century man is immoral...he raises animals only to eat their flesh and wear their skins.

The Bible is a document of its time. It is clearly written by men of the time and not god.


The directions of how to own slaves, who you may enslave, what prince you should pay etc are clearly the words of man.
 
Cordelier said:
You know Moses was fictional for a fact, do you?

I'd be interested to know how you came to that conclusion.
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The story of Moses has many fictional elements in it. Much was taken from the Legend of Sargon. While there might have been someone who inspired the story, there is so much mythical elements to the story that the inspiration would not be recognizable from the story
 
RAMOSS said:
The story of Moses has many fictional elements in it. Much was taken from the Legend of Sargon. While there might have been someone who inspired the story, there is so much mythical elements to the story that the inspiration would not be recognizable from the story
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Is there anything in the story of Moses that we know to be true ?
 
Rich2018 said:
Is there anything in the story of Moses that we know to be true ?
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We know Moses wasn't real, he was a copy of the story of Mises.
 
Logicman said:
Once again, you have zero evidence to back up your claim, while there is evidence the Exodus did happen.

Archaeological Evidence for the Exodus

https://www.bibleandscience.com/arc...nDBDv7qcxPrr5nAzxqM1KDTwMVNq_W1tddcxpxQ4_O8Qg
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You know what one of the biggest pieces in common in all those pieces of 'evidence' is. Not one mention of Hebrew slaves escaping egypt. In other words, it is full of wishful thinking and is highly speculative. Not one thing mentioned is actual evidence for the Exodus.
 
RAMOSS said:
You know what one of the biggest pieces in common in all those pieces of 'evidence' is. Not one mention of Hebrew slaves escaping egypt. In other words, it is full of wishful thinking and is highly speculative. Not one thing mentioned is actual evidence for the Exodus.
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Why are you always on the wrong side of the evidence?
 
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