Does the ACLU do more harm than good?

[SKILMATIC]

I don't care what you call them. Everyone deserves due process of law.

Yes your right and due process of law means they should be shot or hanged to death.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by SKILMATIC:
Yes your right and due process of law means they should be shot or hanged to death.

I'm against the death penalty.

 

[SKILMATIC]

I'm against the death penalty.

Then I dont know what to say other than the law has the death penalty. So if you are going to be a staunch supporter of the law then you must abide by it. And in the law it says these people should be dead right now. I am sorry your argument is dead in your own personal beleifs. I have shown you the facts it is up to you to take them.

 

[SKILMATIC]

I don't care what you call them. Everyone deserves due process of law.

Remember this is what you said? The law is the law. I really dont know what to say other than you just said it.

 

[Pacridge]

No we just needed to remind the mental disorders that we common sensed people still hate the ACLU. Unless you still think that this Stalinist org actually has a purpose?

Yes I think the ACLU has a propose and no I don't see them as Stalinist. In fact I don't even understand the comparison. Stalin was about as anti personal liberty as you could get. The ACLU entire propose is to ensure no one's civil liberties are defended. Regardless of popularity.

 

[Diogenes]

Yes I think the ACLU has a propose and no I don't see them as Stalinist. In fact I don't even understand the comparison. Stalin was about as anti personal liberty as you could get. The ACLU entire propose is to ensure no one's civil liberties are defended. Regardless of popularity.

Assuming that "no one's" is a typo for "everyone's" (not being critical, I occasionally have the same problem when trying to phrase a response) - I suggest that ACLU is actually the acronym for American Criminal Liberties Union since they seem to have no interest in the victims.

 

[Diogenes]

I don't care what you call them. Everyone deserves due process of law.

They've got it. It just isn't the same law we apply to ordinary criminal activities in this country. And it's not the same as the much harsher law that would be applied back in their home countries of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, or wherever. The law applied is military law, and the ACLU has no business in that area.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Diogenes:
They've got it. It just isn't the same law we apply to ordinary criminal activities in this country. And it's not the same as the much harsher law that would be applied back in their home countries of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, or wherever. The law applied is military law, and the ACLU has no business in that area.

They've got what? Being held without being charged in un-American. ACLU might not have any business in that area, but the Geneva Conventions do. Although there have been some improvement, their not there yet.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC:
Then I dont know what to say other than the law has the death penalty. So if you are going to be a staunch supporter of the law then you must abide by it. And in the law it says these people should be dead right now. I am sorry your argument is dead in your own personal beleifs. I have shown you the facts it is up to you to take them.

For those that have not been charged or tried, the Law, hasn't said anything at all, yet.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I see your point. But don't you think there is extremism the other way as well? Such as locking someone up indefinetly without charges or access to a lawyer. Don't you think this could destroy a nation just as easily?

Depends. If we had bin Laden in custody, I'll bet the ACLU would find something in the law to let him out of the slammer claiming his "rights" were being violated by not giving him "due process" or something like that. I'm telling you that the ACLU is an enemy of the American people. It is as simple as that.

For the ordinary citizen who is locked up for a relatively minor offence I think he ought to be given a speedy and fair trial as stipulated in our constitution.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC:
Remember this is what you said? The law is the law. I really dont know what to say other than you just said it.

Just said what? Where did I say this, "The law is the law"? Not that I disagree with it. I just don't remember saying these words. I said, "...everyone deserves due process of law". I have to admit, there's never a dull moment reading your posts.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Missouri Mule:
Depends. If we had bin Laden in custody, I'll bet the ACLU would find something in the law to let him out of the slammer claiming his "rights" were being violated by not giving him "due process" or something like that. I'm telling you that the ACLU is an enemy of the American people. It is as simple as that.

Even OBL deserves due process before he is removed from society for the rest of his natural life. Hell, even George Bush deserves due process. Unfortunately, our Congress is too pussified to get it that far.

Originally Posted by Missouri Mule:
For the ordinary citizen who is locked up for a relatively minor offence I think he ought to be given a speedy and fair trial as stipulated in our constitution.

I think the Constitution stipulates any offense a person is charged with. Although I could be wrong.

 

[Navy Pride]

Just said what? Where did I say this, "The law is the law"? Not that I disagree with it. I just don't remember saying these words. I said, "...everyone deserves due process of law". I have to admit, there's never a dull moment reading your posts.

I am really encouraged by the results in this poll so far....Maybe there is hope after all........

 

[Missouri Mule]

Even OBL deserves due process before he is removed from society for the rest of his natural life. Hell, even George Bush deserves due process. Unfortunately, our Congress is too pussified to get it that far.

I think the Constitution stipulates any offense a person is charged with. Although I could be wrong.

Bin Laden deserves to be drawn and quartered, disemboweled, boiled in oil and then staked to a fire ant hill covered with molassas. Then he ought to burned alive, like he did to those poor 3,000 innocent American souls on 9/11. And then after we are through with that, the serious stuff commences, and let's do it slowly. Like covering him in pig fat and letting the buzzards pick his bones clean. And that's too civilized a death for him. He deserves worse.

 

[dragonslayer]

yes I know you Neo conservatives would like to do away with the ACLU. That means I have to join and contribute to the ACLU.

Neo conservative means:

the return of slavery
education for only the rich
return of sweat shops and child labor.
starvation
lack of medical care
No taxes for Bush's lovers
Lies and more lies, confuse and condemn the truth so the truth will no be known.
Poison Water except for the Rich
American job migration to Asia

Only haters of America, haters of the constitution , and haters of the hundred fifty million poor folk and soon to be poor,,, become Neo conservatives.
They hate the ACLU because it represents a force that protects the average American from Greed and averice.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Missouri Mule:
Bin Laden deserves to be drawn and quartered, disemboweled, boiled in oil and then staked to a fire ant hill covered with molassas. Then he ought to burned alive, like he did to those poor 3,000 innocent American souls on 9/11. And then after we are through with that, the serious stuff commences, and let's do it slowly. Like covering him in pig fat and letting the buzzards pick his bones clean. And that's too civilized a death for him. He deserves worse.

How about an hour alone with SKILMATIC telling him his thoughts on the Big Bang theory? Or an hour alone with Ann Coulter-no earplugs? How about forced sex with Rosie O' Donnell-no blindfold? I'll just be satisfied if he is removed from society for the rest of his life. No sense making a martyr out of him. Then he'll get bigger than when he was alive. Kinda like lynard skynard.

 

[Navy Pride]

The ACLU is a bunch of scumbags...........they defend pedophile organizations.......

 

[DeeJayH]

Personally, i think that the ACLU does do more good than people think they do. They protect student rights in high school, they do the smaller cases you never hear about because they are constntly being overshadowed by their "ultra-liberal" cases like the "under god" debate.

you really are shaked and baked
i dont care what minimal cases of good it fights for
the day it defended pedophiles like NAMBLA, PRO BONO they lost everything
ACLU is the epitome of whats wrong with america today

 

[DeeJayH]

sorry there is no poll with this.......something got screwed up and it wouldn't go through......if one of the moderaters could help me out that would be great.

[Moderator mode]

One "poll" back atchya!:2wave:

[/Moderator mode]

what is with this FRENCH CRAP in the poll

BOYCOTT FRANCE
They are the same ilk as the ACLU

 

[cnredd]

what is with this FRENCH CRAP in the poll

BOYCOTT FRANCE
They are the same ilk as the ACLU

Hey!...

I didn't want to appease the illigal immigrants with "Si"...:2wave:

 

[Missouri Mule]

yes I know you Neo conservatives would like to do away with the ACLU. That means I have to join and contribute to the ACLU.

Neo conservative means:

the return of slavery
education for only the rich
return of sweat shops and child labor.
starvation
lack of medical care
No taxes for Bush's lovers
Lies and more lies, confuse and condemn the truth so the truth will no be known.
Poison Water except for the Rich
American job migration to Asia

Only haters of America, haters of the constitution , and haters of the hundred fifty million poor folk and soon to be poor,,, become Neo conservatives.
They hate the ACLU because it represents a force that protects the average American from Greed and averice.

You should investigate the ACLU's origins. You would discover it had its beginnings in the Communist movements of the early 1900s that would have enslaved us all. They have changed their spots, so to speak, but they are in bed with the terrorists for sure. You can always tell a person or organization's true intentions by the company they keep.

The Communists like the Islamofacists of today are nobody's friends. They represent their own kind which is to say they would ultimately lead to the destruction of civilized society as we know. it.

BTW, the absurd assertions you have made above are very typical of the far left who feel comfortable defending an organization that opposes what is good and decent in America. None of the things you have listed are rooted in fact. It's trash, pure and simple. "Return of Slavery" indeed. Pure crapola.

 

[AlbqOwl]

You should investigate the ACLU's origins. You would discover it had its beginnings in the Communist movements of the early 1900s that would have enslaved us all. They have changed their spots, so to speak, but they are in bed with the terrorists for sure. You can always tell a person or organization's true intentions by the company they keep.

The Communists like the Islamofacists of today are nobody's friends. They represent their own kind which is to say they would ultimately lead to the destruction of civilized society as we know. it.

BTW, the absurd assertions you have made above are very typical of the far left who feel comfortable defending an organization that opposes what is good and decent in America. None of the things you have listed are rooted in fact. It's trash, pure and simple. "Return of Slavery" indeed. Pure crapola.

The ACLU has done some good things and has been on the right side of some issues. But I think in recent years, through lawsuits or threats of lawsuits, they have frightened, intimidated, coerced, and bullied so many in so many areas they have infringed on our rights far more than they have protected them. School boards, administrators, teachers, and parents should determine what the rights of students will be, not the ACLU. Private organizations like the Boy Scouts should determine what their policies should be, not the ACLU. And towns should be able to decide what decorations they will use for the Christmas season, not the ACLU.

We have had so many set tos with the ACLU in this area, and the ACLU usually prevails. The latest thing was a threat to sue the University of New Mexico because the head basketball coach promised a worried mother that he would take her player son to church if he wanted to go. Now I ask you. Is that a threat to world peace? Or a frontal assault on the Constitution? Surely there are more monumental offenses for them to focus on.

 

[Diogenes]

They've got what? Being held without being charged in un-American. ACLU might not have any business in that area, but the Geneva Conventions do. Although there have been some improvement, their not there yet.

They've got due process, by the military handbook. They are not American citizens and their crimes were not committed on American soil. What crime, precisely, do you think bin Laden's driver could be charged with in an American court?

By the Geneva Conventions, these guys are war criminals subject to summary execution - they don't wear uniforms or identifying insignia, they are not in the service of any nation, they hide among civilians, they fight from mosques and hospitals, ad inf.

The fact is that the terrorists are not common criminals, and they are not prisoners of war in the sense that the Geneva Convention contemplated. They are being treated humanely, and being given a fair hearing by the military (which is far more than they offer their captives). The legal technicalities on which the American Criminal Liberties Union relies are not applicable, and the only thing that counts is whether or not they are still considered (by the military) to be a threat.

They hate the ACLU because it represents a force that protects the average American from Greed and averice.

It would be more accurate to describe the ACLU as a force that keeps lawyers employed, and lets the slow of wit pick up the tab.

The ACLU has done some good things and has been on the right side of some issues.

Perhaps, but I can't think of any offhand and there certainly haven't been any examples presented by their supporters on this thread. Do you know of any specific cases, aside from defending Rush Limbaugh?

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Diogenes:
They've got due process, by the military handbook. They are not American citizens and their crimes were not committed on American soil. What crime, precisely, do you think bin Laden's driver could be charged with in an American court?

He should be released if they can't charge him with anything specific. He's a driver. Big crime there. "Your Honor, he was DRIVING!"

Originally Posted by Diogenes:
By the Geneva Conventions, these guys are war criminals subject to summary execution - they don't wear uniforms or identifying insignia, they are not in the service of any nation, they hide among civilians, they fight from mosques and hospitals, ad inf.

Until they have gone through a judicial process, we don't know what or who they are. They could be innocent civilians. Or they could be a bunch of Charlie Mansons. At this point, we don't know. Have you ever heard the term, "Innocent until proven guilty." That has certain significance in this part of the world. You might want to show a little more respect for our laws. There that way for a reason.

Originally Posted by Diogenes:
The fact is that the terrorists are not common criminals, and they are not prisoners of war in the sense that the Geneva Convention contemplated.

This is bullshit. GC applies to anyone that is detained by an occupation force.

Originally Posted by Diogenes:
They are being treated humanely, and being given a fair hearing by the military (which is far more than they offer their captives).

Is that why a bunch of them are on a hunger strike and the military will not let a nuetral organization go in and monitor their condition. Generally speaking. There are cases where they have.

Originally Posted by Diogenes:
The legal technicalities on which the American Criminal Liberties Union relies are not applicable, and the only thing that counts is whether or not they are still considered (by the military) to be a threat.

If there a threat, charge them with a crime and give them a trial. If you can't charge them with anything, let them go.

This is ridiculous. Our country is supposed to be better than this.

 

[Columbusite]

Wow. I'm not surprised at how many here hate a group that follows the Constitution. An organization that stands up for the Constitution, even regarding very unpopular people, is still standing up for the Constitution. Sorry, our Constitution is non-negotiable (aside from legally altering it). That does it, this thread has made me make up my mind. I am going to become a card carrying member of the ACLU. Thanks guys, I couldn't have done it without all your help! :2razz: