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does the 2nd ammendment only apply to US citizens?

Unitedwestand13

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recently i have been hearing a lot of talk about the immigration bill and how some people oppose it because it provides amnesty. now some of you may be thinking or tempted to respond "But what does the immigration debate have to do with gun control or the 2nd amendment?" Well the immigration debate made me wonder about how would illegal immigrants who were going to be forced to leave the country respond to threats of "self deportation"? would they go quietly? or would they fight back?

Here is how the immigration debate in my theoretical view relates to the issue of gun control/second amendment rights. The second amendment protects us as citizens from having our right to bear arms, correct? but if i am not mistaken ( and turtledude will correct me on this i am sure) but aren't firearms a commodity or a item that can be bought and sold? My question is this, the second amendment protects the citizens right to bear arms, but is there a actual requirement for proof of citizenship in order to buy a gun? is it possible for a illegal immigrant to walk into a firearms store and purchase firearms just by showing a simple i.d?

anyone care to enlighten me
 

Black Dog

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recently i have been hearing a lot of talk about the immigration bill and how some people oppose it because it provides amnesty. now some of you may be thinking or tempted to respond "But what does the immigration debate have to do with gun control or the 2nd amendment?" Well the immigration debate made me wonder about how would illegal immigrants who were going to be forced to leave the country respond to threats of "self deportation"? would they go quietly? or would they fight back?

Here is how the immigration debate in my theoretical view relates to the issue of gun control/second amendment rights. The second amendment protects us as citizens from having our right to bear arms, correct? but if i am not mistaken ( and turtledude will correct me on this i am sure) but aren't firearms a commodity or a item that can be bought and sold? My question is this, the second amendment protects the citizens right to bear arms, but is there a actual requirement for proof of citizenship in order to buy a gun? is it possible for a illegal immigrant to walk into a firearms store and purchase firearms just by showing a simple i.d?

anyone care to enlighten me
They could walk into a gun store and try and buy a firearm. They most likely would fail the background check. They could however buy from a private owner. Since they are here illegally and committing a crime buy doing so they are ineligible to legally purchase a firearm.
 
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Dapper Andy

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recently i have been hearing a lot of talk about the immigration bill and how some people oppose it because it provides amnesty. now some of you may be thinking or tempted to respond "But what does the immigration debate have to do with gun control or the 2nd amendment?" Well the immigration debate made me wonder about how would illegal immigrants who were going to be forced to leave the country respond to threats of "self deportation"? would they go quietly? or would they fight back?

Here is how the immigration debate in my theoretical view relates to the issue of gun control/second amendment rights. The second amendment protects us as citizens from having our right to bear arms, correct? but if i am not mistaken ( and turtledude will correct me on this i am sure) but aren't firearms a commodity or a item that can be bought and sold? My question is this, the second amendment protects the citizens right to bear arms, but is there a actual requirement for proof of citizenship in order to buy a gun? is it possible for a illegal immigrant to walk into a firearms store and purchase firearms just by showing a simple i.d?

anyone care to enlighten me
The U.S. Constitution doesn't really empower citizens but restricts the federal government.

I'm not sure how the courts would define "the people" but just being illegal is a crime and would make someone ineligible to purchase a firearm. They would fail the background check anyway though.
 

Jerry

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recently i have been hearing a lot of talk about the immigration bill and how some people oppose it because it provides amnesty. now some of you may be thinking or tempted to respond "But what does the immigration debate have to do with gun control or the 2nd amendment?" Well the immigration debate made me wonder about how would illegal immigrants who were going to be forced to leave the country respond to threats of "self deportation"? would they go quietly? or would they fight back?

Here is how the immigration debate in my theoretical view relates to the issue of gun control/second amendment rights. The second amendment protects us as citizens from having our right to bear arms, correct? but if i am not mistaken ( and turtledude will correct me on this i am sure) but aren't firearms a commodity or a item that can be bought and sold? My question is this, the second amendment protects the citizens right to bear arms, but is there a actual requirement for proof of citizenship in order to buy a gun? is it possible for a illegal immigrant to walk into a firearms store and purchase firearms just by showing a simple i.d?

anyone care to enlighten me
You have to be a permanent migrant, and/or have a valid hunting license, and/or own property or a business; and be established in your state for 90 days. If one or more of these conditions apply to the non-citizen, that person can legally buy, own, carry and use firearms like any citizen. Some states, not many, have specific restrictions against immigrants. There are numerous invisible or assumed requirements not specifically mentioned because they are conditions of making any of the above attributes apply to the migrant. For example, in order to get a valid hunting license you need to present a valid state ID. In order for an migrant to get a valid state ID they have to show their immigration papers/green-card/VISA, birth certificate and 2 pieces of mail to the DMV/Highway Patrol office.

 
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Jerry

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They could walk into a gun store and try and buy a firearm. They most likely would fail the background check. They could however buy from a private owner. Since they are here illegally and committing a crime buy doing so they are ineligible to legally purchase a firearm.
NICS works like a black list, not a white list, so it's likely a given buyer with a valid immigration number (in place of the SS number) would pass NICS.
 
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Black Dog

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NICS works like a black list, not a white lis, so it's likely a given buyer with a valid immigration number (in place of the SS number) would pass NICS.
That makes sense. We are not talking about those with a valid immigration number though. At least that is what I thought?
 

Jerry

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That makes sense. We are not talking about those with a valid immigration number though. At least that is what I thought?
Obama is about to make all the illegals, legal, so I guess it doesn't matter.
 

jamesrage

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recently i have been hearing a lot of talk about the immigration bill and how some people oppose it because it provides amnesty. now some of you may be thinking or tempted to respond "But what does the immigration debate have to do with gun control or the 2nd amendment?" Well the immigration debate made me wonder about how would illegal immigrants who were going to be forced to leave the country respond to threats of "self deportation"? would they go quietly? or would they fight back?

Here is how the immigration debate in my theoretical view relates to the issue of gun control/second amendment rights. The second amendment protects us as citizens from having our right to bear arms, correct? but if i am not mistaken ( and turtledude will correct me on this i am sure) but aren't firearms a commodity or a item that can be bought and sold? My question is this, the second amendment protects the citizens right to bear arms, but is there a actual requirement for proof of citizenship in order to buy a gun? is it possible for a illegal immigrant to walk into a firearms store and purchase firearms just by showing a simple i.d?

anyone care to enlighten me
If the constitution applies to non-citizens then so does the right to keep and bear arms. If the Constitution does not apply to non-citizens then then non-citizens do not have the right to keep and bear arms. Do you believe illegals and green card holders have 1st,3rd,4th,5th amendment rights and other rights?
 

greyhat

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The US Constitution covers not only US Citizens but also US persons.
 

apdst

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recently i have been hearing a lot of talk about the immigration bill and how some people oppose it because it provides amnesty. now some of you may be thinking or tempted to respond "But what does the immigration debate have to do with gun control or the 2nd amendment?" Well the immigration debate made me wonder about how would illegal immigrants who were going to be forced to leave the country respond to threats of "self deportation"? would they go quietly? or would they fight back?

Here is how the immigration debate in my theoretical view relates to the issue of gun control/second amendment rights. The second amendment protects us as citizens from having our right to bear arms, correct? but if i am not mistaken ( and turtledude will correct me on this i am sure) but aren't firearms a commodity or a item that can be bought and sold? My question is this, the second amendment protects the citizens right to bear arms, but is there a actual requirement for proof of citizenship in order to buy a gun? is it possible for a illegal immigrant to walk into a firearms store and purchase firearms just by showing a simple i.d?

anyone care to enlighten me
Your citizenship status is checked when the do the background check. Feel better?
 

BretJ

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recently i have been hearing a lot of talk about the immigration bill and how some people oppose it because it provides amnesty. now some of you may be thinking or tempted to respond "But what does the immigration debate have to do with gun control or the 2nd amendment?" Well the immigration debate made me wonder about how would illegal immigrants who were going to be forced to leave the country respond to threats of "self deportation"? would they go quietly? or would they fight back?

Here is how the immigration debate in my theoretical view relates to the issue of gun control/second amendment rights. The second amendment protects us as citizens from having our right to bear arms, correct? but if i am not mistaken ( and turtledude will correct me on this i am sure) but aren't firearms a commodity or a item that can be bought and sold? My question is this, the second amendment protects the citizens right to bear arms, but is there a actual requirement for proof of citizenship in order to buy a gun? is it possible for a illegal immigrant to walk into a firearms store and purchase firearms just by showing a simple i.d?

anyone care to enlighten me
If we truly believe the the Constitution and Bill of Rights applies to all men, it does not matter if you are a citizen or legal immigrant. A legal immigrant has every right to buy a firearm here in the U.S. My wife has purchased several firearms as a legal immigrant. I also believe that legal immigrants can purchase NFA items as well.

Illegal immigrants are another matter, the fact that they are here illegally means they do not have the full rights afforded legal immigrants. No more than a person convicted of a crime. By choosing to live outside the law, you basically agree to forfeiture of certain rights and privileges under the law.
 
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Master PO

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If we truly believe the the Constitution and Bill of Rights applies to all men, it does not matter if you are a citizen or legal immigrant. A legal immigrant has every right to buy a firearm here in the U.S. My wife has purchased several firearms as a legal immigrant. I also believe that legal immigrants can purchase NFA items as well.

Illegal immigrants are another matter, the fact that they are here illegally means they do not have the full rights afforded legal immigrants. No more than a person convicted of a crime. By choosing to live outside the law, you basically agree to forfeiture of certain rights and privileges under the law.
here is the problem:

before the clvi war the u.s. bill of rights did not apply to states but only the federal government, ,meaning they the feds...could not make laws to infringe on firearms ownership.

however the after the civil war, the USSC ruled that states have to follow the federal bill of rights, by doing this makes it illegal for all governments of any sort to infringe on firearm ownership in any way, were as before the civil war, states could make laws on firearms base, on what their own constitution..... stated about the issue of firearms.

there are state constitutions today, which state clearly , ONLY CITIZENS of that state can bare a firearm....however if the USSC and its insane decisions, have screwed up the balance of power between states and the federal government.
 

Jerry

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here is the problem:

before the clvi war the u.s. bill of rights did not apply to states but only the federal government, ,meaning they the feds...could not make laws to infringe on firearms ownership.

however the after the civil war, the USSC ruled that states have to follow the federal bill of rights, by doing this makes it illegal for all governments of any sort to infringe on firearm ownership in any way, were as before the civil war, states could make laws on firearms base, on what their own constitution..... stated about the issue of firearms.

there are state constitutions today, which state clearly , ONLY CITIZENS of that state can bare a firearm....however if the USSC and its insane decisions, have screwed up the balance of power between states and the federal government.
I have to agree. My state constitution says "the right of citizens" not "the right of the people".
 

blaxshep

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....however if the USSC and its insane decisions, have screwed up the balance of power between states and the federal government.
A federal court granting its self more power, imagine that.

The sad thing is the liberal idiots think that such contemporary jurisprudence is a good thing.

All HAIL the Nanny State!
 

Etoner

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The rights recognized in the Amendments of the Constitution apply to all legal residents of the United States.

Citizens, Permanent Residents, legal immigrants, diplomats, probably even foreigners on vacation.
 

Ikari

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recently i have been hearing a lot of talk about the immigration bill and how some people oppose it because it provides amnesty. now some of you may be thinking or tempted to respond "But what does the immigration debate have to do with gun control or the 2nd amendment?" Well the immigration debate made me wonder about how would illegal immigrants who were going to be forced to leave the country respond to threats of "self deportation"? would they go quietly? or would they fight back?

Here is how the immigration debate in my theoretical view relates to the issue of gun control/second amendment rights. The second amendment protects us as citizens from having our right to bear arms, correct? but if i am not mistaken ( and turtledude will correct me on this i am sure) but aren't firearms a commodity or a item that can be bought and sold? My question is this, the second amendment protects the citizens right to bear arms, but is there a actual requirement for proof of citizenship in order to buy a gun? is it possible for a illegal immigrant to walk into a firearms store and purchase firearms just by showing a simple i.d?

anyone care to enlighten me
The second amendment is does not apply to US citizens only, quite honestly it doesn't apply to US citizens at all. It applies to the Federal Government, it is a specific restriction against their power. It simply states that the militia being a necessary tool for the securing and proliferating of a free state, the individual's right to keep and bear arms cannot be infringed upon.

In general, all natural rights are possessed by all humans.
 

Guy Incognito

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recently i have been hearing a lot of talk about the immigration bill and how some people oppose it because it provides amnesty. now some of you may be thinking or tempted to respond "But what does the immigration debate have to do with gun control or the 2nd amendment?" Well the immigration debate made me wonder about how would illegal immigrants who were going to be forced to leave the country respond to threats of "self deportation"? would they go quietly? or would they fight back?

Here is how the immigration debate in my theoretical view relates to the issue of gun control/second amendment rights. The second amendment protects us as citizens from having our right to bear arms, correct? but if i am not mistaken ( and turtledude will correct me on this i am sure) but aren't firearms a commodity or a item that can be bought and sold? My question is this, the second amendment protects the citizens right to bear arms, but is there a actual requirement for proof of citizenship in order to buy a gun? is it possible for a illegal immigrant to walk into a firearms store and purchase firearms just by showing a simple i.d?

anyone care to enlighten me
The second amendment has radically expanded for
It's original intent to protect state militias. It now protects. Fundamental individual right to gun ownership. There is no good reason this shouldn't apply equally to non citizens, like the right to speedy trial and so forth. It is a natural right to be able to own a firearm or any honestly acquired tangible property. There is no reason this right should be limited in any way based on citizenship.
 

Guy Incognito

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I have to agree. My state constitution says "the right of citizens" not "the right of the people".
That is disgustingly xenophobic. All people are entitled to natural rights regardless of citizenship.
 

Oftencold

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recently i have been hearing a lot of talk about the immigration bill and how some people oppose it because it provides amnesty. now some of you may be thinking or tempted to respond "But what does the immigration debate have to do with gun control or the 2nd amendment?" Well the immigration debate made me wonder about how would illegal immigrants who were going to be forced to leave the country respond to threats of "self deportation"? would they go quietly? or would they fight back?

Here is how the immigration debate in my theoretical view relates to the issue of gun control/second amendment rights. The second amendment protects us as citizens from having our right to bear arms, correct? but if i am not mistaken ( and turtledude will correct me on this i am sure) but aren't firearms a commodity or a item that can be bought and sold? My question is this, the second amendment protects the citizens right to bear arms, but is there a actual requirement for proof of citizenship in order to buy a gun? is it possible for a illegal immigrant to walk into a firearms store and purchase firearms just by showing a simple i.d?

anyone care to enlighten me
"Self deportation" is not a threat. It is simply a state of affairs in which foreign criminal invaders voluntarily remove themselves for the country because it is unprofitable for them to be here.

My question, is why should the 13th Amendment apply to these people?


Really, I wish we'd just annex Mexico and be done with it.
 

jamesrage

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The second amendment has radically expanded for
It's original intent to protect state militias. It now protects. Fundamental individual right to gun ownership. There is no good reason this shouldn't apply equally to non citizens, like the right to speedy trial and so forth. It is a natural right to be able to own a firearm or any honestly acquired tangible property. There is no reason this right should be limited in any way based on citizenship.
What a load of bull ****.The 2nd amendment always applied to individual ownership of firearms hence "the right of the people to keep and bear arms". You might as well be arguing that the 1st,4th or any other amendment doesn't apply to individuals.
 

Guy Incognito

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What a load of bull ****.The 2nd amendment always applied to individual ownership of firearms hence "the right of the people to keep and bear arms". You might as well be arguing that the 1st,4th or any other amendment doesn't apply to individuals.
Actually it is more like saying the first amendment didn't originally protect nude dancing. You see, history doesn't always sync up with modern myths. The founders intended to the 2A to protect the militia, but what matters today is that it has broadened since then much like the first amendment no longer protects just political speech.

It is by wise to deny the history since is gives gun-banners a chance to caricature we supporters of gun rights as ignorant fools who deny history.
 
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