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Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed? [W:83]

Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

  • Yes he does

    Votes: 12 38.7%
  • He's mostly right, but not on everything

    Votes: 5 16.1%
  • Kinda...not always

    Votes: 5 16.1%
  • Not really

    Votes: 7 22.6%
  • No, stay out of our affairs!

    Votes: 2 6.5%

  • Total voters
    31

aberrant85

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In an Op-Ed in the New York Times, Putin bypassed diplomatic channels and spoke directly to the American people.

Among his arguments:

-The UN must be allowed to work.
-Attacking Syria will destabilize the region
-The opposition used chemical weapons, not Assad
-Diplomacy must be used instead of force
-America is not exceptional

How much of his argument holds some water, and how much is BS?
 

Linc

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

I'm wondering how many Russian newspapers would be allowed to give Obama full access to write an op-ed. Just wow.

How many Russian politicians would be trashing Putin as ours are doing to Obama? And let's not forget the Obama bashers on radio and TV.

America should be proud of its freedom and how it is undercutting its President. Many in the GOP laugh with glee at what they feel is a Pootin victory and openly cheer for him. They need to move to Mother Russia.
 

Ray410

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

Do you have a link so others can read Putin's statements firsthand?
 

VanceMack

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

I'm wondering how many Russian newspapers would be allowed to give Obama full access to write an op-ed. Just wow.

How many Russian politicians would be trashing Putin as ours are doing to Obama? And let's not forget the Obama bashers on radio and TV.

America should be proud of its freedom and how it is undercutting its President. Many in the GOP laugh with glee at what they feel is a Pootin victory and openly cheer for him. They need to move to Mother Russia.
Obama's stupidity has created this environment where Putin can come on stage and look like a statesman. Obama is a clown. OF COURSE it is a propoganda victory for Putin...one he didnt even have to work for. You think we are HAPPY about that? We are disgusted by the moronic actions of your boy. But then...with Obama and that clown Kerry on the stage, ANYONE can look good.
 

Linc

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

Your "boy" Pootin, as you called Obama a "boy" is winning because of the enemy within, the GOP. Own it.
Obama's stupidity has created this environment where Putin can come on stage and look like a statesman. Obama is a clown. OF COURSE it is a propoganda victory for Putin...one he didnt even have to work for. You think we are HAPPY about that? We are disgusted by the moronic actions of your boy. But then...with Obama and that clown Kerry on the stage, ANYONE can look good.
 

VanceMack

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

Your "boy" Pootin, as you called Obama a "boy" is winning because of the enemy within, the GOP. Own it.
Putin is winning because Obama is a moron. Plain and simple. Obama jumped the shark, threatened to 'punish' Syria, then lost what he expected as the sure support of the UK and then SUDDENLY he found the need to go to congress, to backtrack, to find others trying to support his attacks. He flopped, he floundered, he embarrassed both himself and the country. He made it easy for Putin to step in. Putin is playing chess...Obama is playing checkers. The ONLY reason Putin looks good is because your boy looks so pathetic.
 

Linc

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Linc

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

You have all the talking points down. Enjoy your President thrown under the tank while Pootin gets a free ride from his Country or they die. I bet you forgot they were commies and are still supplying Syria and Iran with high-tech weapons. You arm-chair generals make Putin's job easier one treachorous post at a time.
Putin is winning because Obama is a moron. Plain and simple. Obama jumped the shark, threatened to 'punish' Syria, then lost what he expected as the sure support of the UK and then SUDDENLY he found the need to go to congress, to backtrack, to find others trying to support his attacks. He flopped, he floundered, he embarrassed both himself and the country. He made it easy for Putin to step in. Putin is playing chess...Obama is playing checkers. The ONLY reason Putin looks good is because your boy looks so pathetic.
 

Ray410

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

US Newspapers - US Newspaper List
New York
New York Times
So easy, even a con should know.
How you enjoy your President Putin, who has ZERO criticism at home.
I agree, it does seem odd that as Obama flails about cluelessly, Putin has suddenly become the "Go to" guy for American newspapers.
 

Linc

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

It wasn't always this way in the USA. We'll constantly battle on the Internet over revision and trash all of our pols in front of the world. Meanwhile, Communist Russia allows ZERO tolerance of dissent in any way, allowing Pootin to look like the savior.
I agree, it does seem odd that as Obama flails about cluelessly, Putin has suddenly become the "Go to" guy for American newspapers.
 

VanceMack

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

You have all the talking points down. Enjoy your President thrown under the tank while Pootin gets a free ride from his Country or they die. I bet you forgot they were commies and are still supplying Syria and Iran with high-tech weapons. You arm-chair generals make Putin's job easier one treachorous post at a time.
Its laughable that you think anyone 'threw' Obama under the bus and thathe didnt take a running dive and do it to himself. You think people are HAPPY that he has done it. That just shows how completely up his ass you are. Pathetic.
 

ChezC3

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

I agree, it does seem odd that as Obama flails about cluelessly, Putin has suddenly become the "Go to" guy for American newspapers.
When you're starving for leadership like the US is right now, any scrap will do..
 

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

In an Op-Ed in the New York Times, Putin bypassed diplomatic channels and spoke directly to the American people.
Putin is full of it.

Let's recap:

"No one wants the United Nations to suffer the fate of the League of Nations, which collapsed because it lacked real leverage. This is possible if influential countries bypass the United Nations and take military action without Security Council authorization."


The UN doesn't work when two security council members who have permanent voting rights refuse to allow any action against states no matter how badly those states are butchering their citizens. China is HORRIBLE candidate for the security council because China has internal projection problems in interfering with the matters of others in the fear that eventually its own bad behavior will cause others to interfere in Chinese matters. Thus, China refuses to vote for any real action and thus provides cover for state sanctioned wholesale mass slaughter. Russia is using it to give the finger to the West as Russian power declines in the world. Being able to prevent others from acting is in its self the power that a weaker nation has. Russia doesn't play by any of the world's rules when it feels like it and thus has no shame in using what should be measures to prevent war crimes to gain political standing. Essentially Putin is standing on the proverbial bodies of dead Syrians. As he did with Libya. And Russia on Kosovo.

"A strike would increase violence and unleash a new wave of terrorism. It could undermine multilateral efforts to resolve the Iranian nuclear problem and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and further destabilize the Middle East and North Africa."


There's a good chance that doing nothing will result in unleashing a new wave of terrorism. That's coming either way. As for the Iranian program, doing nothing gives Iran even more cover to get its nuclear program up and running. If we show our threats are meaningless, what does Iran have to fear? We become a paper tiger. Putin is 100% full of **** that this will have any impact on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. What's holding that up is the expansion of Jewish settlements and the fact that its core, Israel doesn't want peace. They get peace with the Palestinian, they have to deal with their own internal problems that could potentially rip Israel apart. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict allows Israel to brush these problems under the rug and let the parties focus on the Palestinians as the problem, not each other. Israel alone faces a welfare entitlement program that could destroy the state. And they do not even remotely have a good way of fixing it.

I think it's funny how Putin promotes Democracy put actively tries to destroy it in Russia and FSU states. This guy is more hypocritical than some users here.

"Might they not return to our countries with experience acquired in Syria?"

And the longer the fight, the more hardened they get and the bigger threat they become, so therefore do nothing and prolong the fight? What kind of crap logic is that Putin?

"From the outset, Russia has advocated peaceful dialogue enabling Syrians to develop a compromise plan for their own future. We are not protecting the Syrian government, but international law. "

Which is largely more bull****. There is no ZOPA between the Rebels and Assad. Assad wants to stay in power. Rebels will never allow this. There can be no peaceful dialogue because each of them has a condition that excludes a potential zone of possible agreement. And yes, you are protecting the Syrian government. If you gave a **** about international law, you'd be pushing hard to remove Assad or his weapons. The transfer of chemical weapons is a sham because it cannot happen in a war zone. Putin is buying time for Assad and nothing more. The whole chemical weapons transfer plan is doomed from the start and was deliberately designed that way.

"Under current international law, force is permitted only in self-defense or by the decision of the Security Council."

Ignore the fact that Russia and China will veto any plan they don't like, even if it lets murderous rampages continue.

"ut there is every reason to believe it was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists. "

Is that why we have emails from Syrian officials planning, coordinating and mopping up from the planned chemical attack? Heck, we have dialogue between them that has reactions from one who was amazed at the damage it did, way more than he expected. Syrian rebels did this? Only if you're blind, deaf and dumb....or have an ulterior motive for lying.

"Reports that militants are preparing another attack — this time against Israel — cannot be ignored."

This is the stupidest thing I have read so far. Attacking Israel would unleash the might of the Israeli Air Force who has no problems bombing the crap out of people it believes to be terrorists. The rebels are already getting pounded by Assad's subpar air force. They will get demolished by a proper air force.

I can't keep reading this. It's that bad.

Seriously, if you take that article seriously, you are extremely ignorant.
 

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/opinion/putin-plea-for-caution-from-russia-on-syria.html

Having just read it, I find it to be compelling. Regardless of intention, it is one helluva move...
That Putin is a douchebag?

Seriously, I couldn't even make it all the way to the end. Putin's essay is 15 lbs of bull**** in a 6oz snackpack ziplock.

He writes that the threat of terrorists gaining skills in Syria applies to everyone, and thus we should do nothing and let them get even more hardened and more skilled. I don't even see that level of retarded logic here. The dumbest users here use better logic than Putin. EMBARRASSING.
 

ChezC3

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

That Putin is a douchebag?

Seriously, I couldn't even make it all the way to the end. Putin's essay is 15 lbs of bull**** in a 6oz snackpack ziplock.

He writes that the threat of terrorists gaining skills in Syria applies to everyone, and thus we should do nothing and let them get even more hardened and more skilled. I don't even see that level of retarded logic here. The dumbest users here use better logic than Putin. EMBARRASSING.
So you suggest we aid Assad in ridding him of the terrorists?
 

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

So you suggest we aid Assad in ridding him of the terrorists?
Sorta of. In the process of bombing Assad, we lob a few missiles towards AQ related fighter cells. They're already afraid we're going to bomb them as well. We should make sure their fears are realized.
 

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

Sorta of. In the process of bombing Assad, we lob a few missiles towards AQ related fighter cells. They're already afraid we're going to bomb them as well. We should make sure their fears are realized.
So you want Hezbollah to have their own country?
 

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

In an Op-Ed in the New York Times, Putin bypassed diplomatic channels and spoke directly to the American people.

Among his arguments:

-The UN must be allowed to work.
-Attacking Syria will destabilize the region
-The opposition used chemical weapons, not Assad
-Diplomacy must be used instead of force
-America is not exceptional

How much of his argument holds some water, and how much is BS?
America is exceptional, did you hear Obama finally admit I the other day? I thought his head was going to explode. :lol:
 

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

So you want Hezbollah to have their own country?
And that came from where exactly? Do you regularly rely on out of left field arguments?

Without Assad, Hezbollah will wither away. So how does it logically flow that removing Assad strengthens Hezbollah to the point they could rule a country?
 

Artevelde

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

In an Op-Ed in the New York Times, Putin bypassed diplomatic channels and spoke directly to the American people.

Among his arguments:

-The UN must be allowed to work.
-Attacking Syria will destabilize the region
-The opposition used chemical weapons, not Assad
-Diplomacy must be used instead of force
-America is not exceptional

How much of his argument holds some water, and how much is BS?
The UN is pretty much useless in these sorts of things, as they have demonstrated time and again.
The region is pretty unstable as it is, but obviously any form of US intervention in the Syrian civil war carries great risks. In this Putin is at least more right than the Obama-administration whose assurances that this would be a strictly limited operation without excessive risks is either disingenuous or just plain stupid.
At this point I see no conclusive evidence for who used chemical weapons where. Putin's assertion that it was the rebels is as unproven as Obama's assertion that it was Assad.
On the whole, it is preferable to use diplomacy rather than military force, if essential goals can be reached this way. But diplomacy and military force are both tools. It's the policy that matters.
One can conduct a whole semantic discussion about American "exceptionalism". I'm not a big fan of the term. But the fact is that the US is an exceptional global superpower and has been - on the whole - an exceptional force for progress and good in the World.
 

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

Among his arguments:

-The UN must be allowed to work.
The UN cannot function by virtue of the Security Council and its sources of funding. The WTO and IMF have disproportionately more power than the entire UN has now, and their funders are primarily the financial elites in western European countries. They control the stakes now, not the UN.

-Attacking Syria will destabilize the region
True, but that's the point. It's fairly evident now that the Middle East is being restructured, economically and culturally, by the globalists. They won't be satisfied until every region on this planet has come under their economic influence and everyone is dependent on their systems for survival.

-The opposition used chemical weapons, not Assad
It doesn't really matter at this point, to be perfectly honest. The invasion is going to happen and for the first time Americans are going to see that popularity polls have zero relevance because it is the elites who control the government now and not them.

-Diplomacy must be used instead of force
Our history demonstrates that we are experts are diplomacy when we want to be. Right now our hawkish foreign policy combined with globalist interventions clearly shows that we are not interested in diplomatic solutions. Diplomacy is foreplay to war at this point.

-America is not exceptional
This part is true. The globalist financial elites are showing us that America is disposable. They will bankrupt this entire nation and keep the money for themselves in pursuit of their global hegemony. They're just playing on American manifest destiny and nationalism to make it happen.

How much of his argument holds some water, and how much is BS?
Putin's points are valid, though they will come under fire simply because of who he is. Russia and China are the two places on Earth that are currently immune to the influences of western financial elites, which is why our media has next to nothing good to say about them. They don't want to talk about how China's Communism has transformed them from a dirtball to a 10%-growth-per-year industrial economy capable of competing with the best of them; or how the experiment of Democracy in Russia is failing and it's going to continue to oppose our ideology about the way the world should be run.

Putin is a power hungry dictator in the making, but in this matter he knows what he's talking about. It will mostly fall on deaf ears though; if you say the word "Russian" to the average American they still think "Commie" right away.
 
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ChezC3

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

And that came from where exactly? Do you regularly rely on out of left field arguments?

Without Assad, Hezbollah will wither away. So how does it logically flow that removing Assad strengthens Hezbollah to the point they could rule a country?
Left field? It's front and center. You just said bomb both the rebels, who are Al Qaeda why you're seemingly supporting them, I do not know, and Assad. You bomb them both you have a power vacuum and whose the only group organized and has the muscle to fill in? Hezbollah.

Second. who do you think rules Lebanon? Hezbollah.

Further Hezbollah has a relationship, albeit strained with Hamas. You don't think they'd work something out temporarily or divide the nation amongst them?

I mean seriously, all your talk about logic and you haven't walked this one through?
 

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

Left field? It's front and center. You just said bomb both the rebels, who are Al Qaeda why you're seemingly supporting them,
Did you even read what I wrote? How is bombing Al Qaeda supporting them? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It's like saying the cops are supporting criminals by shooting and killing them.

I do not know, and Assad. You bomb them both you have a power vacuum and whose the only group organized and has the muscle to fill in? Hezbollah.
And how is Hezbollah going to do that? Without Syrian support, they have very little actual power. No resupply, poor training, no money. Without Assad Hezbollah withers away.

Second. who do you think rules Lebanon? Hezbollah.
This is not accurate. Hezbollah has a political wing, but it is hardly what you claim it to be.

Further Hezbollah has a relationship, albeit strained with Hamas. You don't think they'd work something out temporarily or divide the nation amongst them?
Hamas is limited to the Gaza strip. Where are you even coming from with this?

I mean seriously, all your talk about logic and you haven't walked this one through?
Have you? You don't seem to get that Hezbollah is dependent on Syria. And you don't seem to know where Hamas operates form. And at the same time you think that by wanting to bomb and kill AQ, I'm supporting them.

Nothing you've said makes any sense whatsoever.
 

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Re: Does Putin Have a Point in his Op-Ed?

Did you even read what I wrote? How is bombing Al Qaeda supporting them? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It's like saying the cops are supporting criminals by shooting and killing them.
Yeah, I read what you wrote, did you read what I wrote? If you did you'll recall the word "seemingly"



And how is Hezbollah going to do that? Without Syrian support, they have very little actual power. No resupply, poor training, no money. Without Assad Hezbollah withers away.
Well for one I don't know where you get your intel, but I know that Hezbollah had this little skirmish with Israel for oh I don't know a very looooooong time, even claimed they won a few years back. I also don't think you seem to understand Hezbollah's connection to fellow Shiite Iran? No, forgot about them? Yeah, it appears you did. Don't thinkk Iran would love a little puppet to play with?

This is not accurate. Hezbollah has a political wing, but it is hardly what you claim it to be.
Oh but it is, but I'll just say "nah nah nah booboo you're wrong!" too and move on...


Hamas is limited to the Gaza strip. Where are you even coming from with this?
Now, I am certain you haven't a clue, most of Hamas senior leadership resides in Syria, knowing that they be dead if they go into territory which the IDF has no problem bombing


Have you? You don't seem to get that Hezbollah is dependent on Syria. And you don't seem to know where Hamas operates form. And at the same time you think that by wanting to bomb and kill AQ, I'm supporting them.
Scratch this, reverse, than you've got it!

Nothing you've said makes any sense whatsoever.
No, to a person who thinks he has the pulse of the ME but doesn't know his butt from a bumpersticker, I don't suppose any of this would...
 
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