Does biological sex affect someone's gender?

[buck]

What in your opinion should be the minimum age with the help of a parent/guardian for effective transition care?

When the kid is old enough to truly understand the implications. I'm not going to give a specific age, but I do have an opinion.

Wpath had a specific age, but took it out of the draft. They decided to put the doctors first. Seems liked effed up priorities to me.

 

[Lisa]

you are talking to someone that is ok with chemically castrating a kid so they can never orgasm, under an informed consent model when that kid cant possibly understand the implications to their future self. If someone can justify that, they'll attempt to justify anything

Informed consent treatment is often banned for under-18 teens. The vast majority of post op trans-females can achieve orgasm. The claims made by your sources are very questionable.

Regardless, there are many other things to be done, One example: i read a research paper a while ago showing benefits of putting pre surgical trans kids in group therapy with post surgical trans. They found that simple step greatly reduced the number of trans kids opting for surgery, as the pre surgical kids found the problems weren't solved by surgery and new problems were created (such as complications, etc).

Stop using emotional terms like kids. They are teens. Support groups are always a good idea, but bottom surgery is usually limited to 17-18 years.

When the kid is old enough to truly understand the implications. I'm not going to give a specific age, but I do have an opinion.

Wpath had a specific age, but took it out of the draft. They decided to put the doctors first. Seems liked effed up priorities to me.

The Drs and therapists know the patients needs better than you and I. The patient can always say no that they aren't ready. There is a battery of questions that are asked, usually multiple times, before a surgical letter is written, plus years of psych following.

 

[buck]

The claims made by your sources are very questionable.

Yes, I agree the pres of wpath is quite questionable.

Stop using emotional terms like kids. They are teens. Support groups are always a good idea, but bottom surgery is usually limited to 17-18 years.

They are kids.

The Drs and therapists know the patients needs better than you and I. The patient can always say no that they aren't ready. There is a battery of questions that are asked, usually multiple times, before a surgical letter is written, plus years of psych following.

There are.many doctors that will write a letter for a kid after 1 remote visit. I Provided a study showing it wasn't "years". You saw it. It was discussed. You just cant remember shit. Which reminds me why I stopped responding to you. My bad.

 

[Lisa]

Yes, I agree the pres of wpath is quite questionable.

You support transphoibic ideas, so anything by WRATH would be opposed by you.

They are kids.

We are all kids to someone. A teen is not a kid. That an emotional argument.

There are.many doctors that will write a letter for a kid after 1 remote visit. I Provided a study showing it wasn't "years". You saw it. It was discussed. You just cant remember shit. Which reminds me why I stopped responding to you. My bad.

That letter was for hormones and I highly doubt that they were writing that letter for someone under 18 on the first tel-visit. I am very familiar with informed consent regulations. Anyone who writes a surgical letter before 1 year on HRT and social transition is a quack, even for an adult.

 

[cAPSLOCK]

Oh no, we're updating words to fit reality! Run for the nearest fainting couch!

I will ignore your juvenile taunting, but ask you straight up.

Do you believe humanity has had an unrealistic definition of the words Man, and Woman for thousands of years? And that changing the definition of 'woman' to "An adult human that identifies as female" is correcting those millennia of error?

 

[cAPSLOCK]

We are all kids to someone. A teen is not a kid. That an emotional argument.

Kid is a synonym for child. And in the country I live in that is a human under the age of 18. It is not an emotional definition, but a legal one.

 

[Lisa]

Kid is a synonym for child. And in the country I live in that is a human under the age of 18. It is not an emotional definition, but a legal one.

A kid is not a legal definition. Its an infant, toddler, child or teenager.

Calling a trans teen a child is akin to calling a 12 week fetus a baby in discussions of abortion rights. Its designed to elicit an emotional response.

 

[buck]

Kid is a synonym for child. And in the country I live in that is a human under the age of 18. It is not an emotional definition, but a legal one.

I had this discussion with her before. I even provided text of laws calling 18 year olds kids. She doesn't care. To her 12 and 13 year olds just aren't kids. It helps her sleep at night, i guess.

 

[Lisa]

I had this discussion with her before. I even provided text of laws calling 18 year olds kids. She doesn't care. To her 12 and 13 year olds just aren't kids. It helps her sleep at night, i guess.

They are tweens and teenagers.

I do care very much, but denying effective trans care isn't a sign of caring about them.


Buck, You still do not understand psychological gender identity and gender dysphoria. That is akin to trying to discuss evolution and denying the existence of DNA.

 

[Mithros]

What in your opinion should be the minimum age with the help of a parent/guardian for effective transition care?

Easy, 18, adulthood.

We have to separate out “prefers to identify with”with suffers “severe mental anguish from”. Medical treatment for children should be limited to mitigating mental illness. The treatment should be done with an aim of maximizing quality of life over the life of the child.

A child cannot possibly comprehend the potential costs of hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery. Maybe there are rare cases where it is the best option, but those will be vanishingly small.

It should not be legislated, but imo it’s kind of monstrous to do that to a child, even if a child “wants” it and even if they don’t regret it later.

 

[Lisa]

Easy, 18, adulthood.

We have to separate out “prefers to identify with”with suffers “severe mental anguish from”. Medical treatment for children should be limited to mitigating mental illness. The treatment should be done with an aim of maximizing quality of life over the life of the child.

A child cannot possibly comprehend the potential costs of hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery. Maybe there are rare cases where it is the best option, but those will be vanishingly small.

It should not be legislated, but imo it’s kind of monstrous to do that to a child, even if a child “wants” it and even if they don’t regret it later.

Treatment is not about cost when its childhood cancer or other maladies, so why is cost a factor in mental health?

What do you plan to do for trans teens who suffer from severe gender dysphoria before the age of 18? It doesn't go away and it cant be put on hold without serious complications. There is no talk therapy or anti-depressants drugs that can replace effective transition care.

The DSM.5 is very clear on this.

Prognosis​

Current case reports offer no evidence that psychotherapy offers total and long-standing about face of cross-gender identity. It is important to state that all transsexuals are not the same, and thus are not part of a uniform group. Early diagnosis and treatment decreases the chance for individuals to suffer depression, emotional agony, and to attempt suicide. It is equally significant to state that gender dysphoria is not identical to homosexuality. Each individual goes through a unique change, some may want a short-term change, and be content with cross-dressing, while others may desire a complete change, and seek gender assignment surgery (Royal College of Psychiatrists, 2013). Those who are born having ambiguous genitalia may meet the criteria for the identification of gender dysphoria.

Gender Dysphoria DSM-5 302.85 (F64.9) - Therapedia

www.theravive.com

Denying them effective care is malpractice and very dangerous in the short and and long term. A trans teen and their guardian can understand the various risks involved both from the therapists and the various Drs on the treatment team. Obviously the process is slower with more safety precautions for teens than the faster time table for adults.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Of coarse not, you can change it anytime you like according to democrats.

 

[Lisa]

Of coarse not, you can change it anytime you like according to democrats.

This isnt political. Its medical science. I've never asked a Dr about their political views because its irrelevant.

 

[lwf]

when you give a kid so called puberty blockers those are castration drugs.
that's not what I asked make me a list of all the people that died from not taking castration drugs.

That's not how you treat gender dysphoria.

Correct. No one treats gender dysphoria with castration. That would be stupid.

 

[lwf]

Chemical castration is reality when kids go from blockers to CSH in some instances. and gender affirming surgeries have been documented from 12 (mastectomies) and 15 (neo vagina creation).

It isn't. Puberty blockers are fully reversible. You and @CLAX1911 have been frightened into believing a false narrative by politically motivated horror stories. You have let these horror stories overwhelm your common sense. The majority of Americans are not child molesters, and trained medical professionals are not gleefully abusing children for profit. And conservative laymen and Republican politicians who saw a meme on Facebook are not smarter, more ethical, or more responsible than everyone else in the country. When "common sense" seems to be limited to you and a minority of uneducated conservative laymen, perhaps it is you who has lost your common sense and the rest of the world knows something that you don't?

I believe you mean well. But your ignorance is putting children at risk. The ethical thing to do is educate yourself on the subject rather than to parrot false political narratives and amplify transphobia.

 

[CLAX1911]

Correct. No one treats gender dysphoria with castration. That would be stupid.

So why do we prescribe castration for kids suffering with gender dysphoria?

"Puberty blockers" are drugs that were prescribed for chemical castration so when you prescribe that to a kid that's what you're doing. And it does absolutely nothing on this planet to change their gender or their sex.

 

[buck]

It isn't. Puberty blockers are fully reversible. You and @CLAX1911

I understand you have been told that, but it's not true. They are only "fully reversible" in the sense that once stopped, puberty resumes. However time is missed and some impavys will last.

And conservative laymen and Republican politicians who saw a meme on Facebook are not smarter, more ethical, or more responsible than everyone else in the country.

I do like that you limited it to "in this country", as it implies you know medical organizations and multiple countries have severely limited "gender affirming care" for kids that are irreversible, such as blockers, csh and surgeries. However, even your claim of everyone else in the country is not quite right. Some experts have started warning of the new cohort and multiple.articles in the times and post have been documenting concerns amongst some experts.

 

[Mithros]

Treatment is not about cost when its childhood cancer or other maladies, so why is cost a factor in mental health?

What do you plan to do for trans teens who suffer from severe gender dysphoria before the age of 18? It doesn't go away and it cant be put on hold without serious complications. There is no talk therapy or anti-depressants drugs that can replace effective transition care.

The DSM.5 is very clear on this.

Gender Dysphoria DSM-5 302.85 (F64.9) - Therapedia

www.theravive.com

Denying them effective care is malpractice and very dangerous in the short and and long term. A trans teen and their guardian can understand the various risks involved both from the therapists and the various Drs on the treatment team. Obviously the process is slower with more safety precautions for teens than the faster time table for adults.

Lol, how do you read what I wrote and jump to medical costs?

The “costs” are costs to the physical long term well being and health of the child. A child cannot comprehend the long term costs of aggressive treatment.

You also acknowledged then ignored the main point, for children the only thing we should be treating is their mental health, not their gender preference.

 

[Mithros]

So why do we prescribe castration for kids suffering with gender dysphoria?

"Puberty blockers" are drugs that were prescribed for chemical castration so when you prescribe that to a kid that's what you're doing. And it does absolutely nothing on this planet to change their gender or their sex.

A good analogy is a church pushing for chemical castration for gay kids. Would anyone not consider that child abuse?

They might all sincerely believe it’s the right thing to do since gay adults are going to hell. And chemically castrated adults might not regret being castrated any more than a blind person might regret never seeing.

 

[Lisa]

Lol, how do you read what I wrote and jump to medical costs?

The “costs” are costs to the physical long term well being and health of the child. A child cannot comprehend the long term costs of aggressive treatment.

You also acknowledged then ignored the main point, for children the only thing we should be treating is their mental health, not their gender preference.

The treatment isn't aggressive in any way. It goes at the pace the patient desires and as the Drs thinks is appropriate. The patient sets the time table and the goals of transition according to their needs and level of gender dysphoria. Who told you otherwise? This is far from an assembly line process.

It is not a preference. Gender identity is innate from birth and not a choice.

 

[Gatsby]

I thought of this question while reading another thread about how many sexes there are.

The consensus seemed to be that there are two main biological sexes and as many as 72 genders, give or take a few. It made me wonder does one's sex or sexuality affect their gender?

Surely the person who wrote this list must be joking, or in middle school.

Caelgender: This gender identity shares the qualities or aesthetics of outer space.

Colorgender: In this category, colors are used to describe gender, for example, pink gender or black gender.

Healgender: A gender identity that gives the person peace, calm, and positivity.

These silly identities might be fine for 11-year-olds just messing around, but it's unnerving that adults indulge them as though they're actually A Thing.

 

[grip]

Surely the person who wrote this list must be joking, or in middle school.

Caelgender: This gender identity shares the qualities or aesthetics of outer space.

Colorgender: In this category, colors are used to describe gender, for example, pink gender or black gender.

Healgender: A gender identity that gives the person peace, calm, and positivity.

These silly identities might be fine for 11-year-olds just messing around, but it's unnerving that adults indulge them as though they're actually A Thing.

I believe there are a few categories of identifiable genders but don't buy into more than LGBTQ, plus a few more unless they want to identify as gender fluid or unclassified.

 

[Lisa]

I believe there are a few categories of identifiable genders but don't buy into more than LGBTQ, plus a few more unless they want to identify as gender fluid or unclassified.

I explained this previously.

Male, female and intersex are the biological sexes.

Male, female, non-binary and gender fluid are the most common gender identities but there is a spectrum, so conceivably the number could be as numerous as the shades of grey at the paint store.

There are also extremely numerous levels of sexual orientation for bisexuals between people being exclusively hetero and exclusively homosexual, which according to Kinsey is not as common as most people want to believe. Most people are bisexual to some extent, even if they don't act on it for various reasons, usually social inhibitions.

 

[grip]

I explained this previously.

Male, female and intersex are the biological sexes.

Male, female, non-binary and gender fluid are the most common gender identities but there is a spectrum, so conceivably the number could be as numerous as the shades of grey at the paint store.

There are also extremely numerous levels of sexual orientation for bisexuals between people being exclusively hetero and exclusively homosexual, which according to Kinsey is not as common as most people want to believe. Most people are bisexual to some extent, even if they don't act on it for various reasons, usually social inhibitions.

I'm never going to learn all the designations, nor do I give a crap. It seems like a bunch of narcissistic attention-seeking that's not very important to the majority.

 

[Lisa]

I'm never going to learn all the designations, nor do I give a crap. It seems like a bunch of narcissistic attention-seeking that's not very important to the majority.

You only need to understand the basic ideas. Gender identity, biological sex and sexual orientation.