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Does anyone know someone as immature as Trump?

noonereal said:
I strongly disagree. I was VERY open to Trump for example. Hire the best, an outsider, drain the swamp, launch a giant infrastructure project, bring a keen business sense to DC...
It all sounded good. But what happened literally on day one? The term "alternate facts" was born. Good ****in grief!



It is clinically immature behavior. This is fact. I don't mean to be provoking or anything but fact is fact.
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I don't think Trump's behavior affected the highly partisan at all. Those less to non-partisan, yes. What it might be is being obnoxious, uncouth, behaving immature on his reality TV show earned him very high ratings. Being rude attracted fans to his TV show. Much like that rude one Simon cowherd or whatever his name was on American Idol. Trump carried that rudeness over to the primaries which he won fairly easily, he came across as a fighter to those Republican voters which were angry at the GOP establishment to begin with. Trump continued on during the general and eked out a win over Hillary in which everything had to go perfect for him. The Earth, Moon, the Sun, planets, even galaxies had to align perfectly. Somehow it did.

But as with most things, too much became too much. Trump's personality was his own worst enemy. Your take on this is as good as mine. I don't know, just taking a SWAG at it. Has Trump always acted and behaved this way, I don't know as I didn't know who the heck he was prior to the GOP primaries.
 
Perotista said:
I think in today's political era of polarization, divisiveness and mega, ultra, high partisanship that most Democrats were against Trump because he was a Republican and most Republicans were for Trump because he was a Republicans. Trump's behavior, unpresidential as I put it, immature as you say, that didn't matter to the highly partisans of both parties political stripes. I do however think it did to independents who grew tired, weary, even a bit disgusted with Trump's behavior and with his obnoxious personality. Trump won this group by 4 points in 2016, lost them by 13 points in 2020, a 17 point swing which I base more on Trump's immaturity, his rude, uncouth, unpresidential behavior than anything else. If on looks at how independents viewed Trump's policies, they were fairly split, for some, against some, indifferent to others. It's Trump's behavior and persona that turned them off and when they had a chance to vote for an adult vs. the immature spoiled brat, they took it.

Today, as a result of the D.C. riot, some Republicans are beginning to wake up to the behavior of their man. Not many, but they are growing. Now is that because they finally realize Trump behaved like an immature four year old brat with his temper tantrums and name calling among other things or is it they're looking forward to 2022 and see Trump as an albatross around their necks when it comes to the independent vote and possibly their future? Then again many are remaining Trump loyalist only because they don't want to peeve off Trump supporters for fear of being primaried out in 2022.

That's how I see these things as of now.
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I wasn’t against Trump simply because he was a Republican. I was against him because of his campaign rhetoric towards Mexicans, Muslims, and immigrants. His threats of mass deportations, removing dreamers, changing citizenship, Muslim bans and registries was very serious and unacceptable. The fact that we have all these people stuck in border camps with allegations of abuse is not surprising, and it could have been a lot more people. Also, threatening to lock up his political opponents was horrifying.

If he were an average Republican not engaging in that kind of rhetoric, my reaction to him would have been a lot different. I viewed Trump as an authoritarian strongman and a threat to Democracy. I am not surprised he refused to concede and he refused to attend the inauguration. The fact that he was dangerous and unfit to lead a free country was obvious by his rhetoric.
 
Jack2aTee said:
Does anyone know someone as immature as Trump?

Yes. My 2-year-old nephew.
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when my 5 year old grandkid would act like Trump i'd tell him, "Don't be a Donald!"

Now he tells his friend this. LOL
 
Buckeyes85 said:
I respectfully disagree with this.
And while I appreciate you were not offering a defense of Trump, so many who do support him think he was treated unfairly based upon the presumption he entered the white house with a relatively clean slate. He did not.

Presidents such as Carter, Obama and to a lesser degree GW Bush had relatively low profiles nationally before embarking on the runs for presidency. Trump on the other hand was well known as a blowhard born in to wealth, conman, serial philanderer, perpetual liar and litigator, and someone who never accepted blame for mistakes. In short, every childish, immature narcissistic trait mentioned in the OP was known to a lot of us. THAT is the reason I could never vote for him for president no matter if he was running as a democrat (which he was for most of his life) or a republican.

So for a lot of us, the suggestion we didn't want him as POTUS because he was a republican ignores the massive baggage that rode down the escalator with him in 2015.
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I can buy that. I never even heard of him prior to the GOP primaries or at least prior to him announcing his run for the presidency in 2015. I'm not a fan of reality TV. Usually at least a third of the opposing party always give a new president a chance before ganging up on them. With Trump that never happened, that stood out to me. Perhaps you're more in the know than I.

Below is the job approval by opposing parties on 30 January of the year they first took office.
Trump 12% of Democrats
Obama 41% of Republicans
G.W. Bush 32% of Democrats
Bill Clinton 33% of Republicans
G.H.W. Bush 38% of Democrats
Reagan 38% of Democrats
Carter 49% of Republicans

Trump wasn't given any type of honeymoon. The lowness of overall job approval on 30 January of the year he took office was really weird to me. Of course it doesn't take but 2-3 months before the honeymoon is over and very low approval is the norm.
 
noonereal said:
I honestly think it has to do with who you keep company with which has much to do on how you were brought up. I recall talking a young women (40) who told me how fist fights were common at family gatherings like Christmas and Thanksgiving in her family. It is not the first person I have heard say this about their family.
Honestly, these are the kind of folks that may well view Donnie's behavior as nothing out of the normal. The Sarah Palin types.
Could it be, I am truly wondering?
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Off topic, but man Sarah Palin disappeared fast.
 
noonereal said:
I, foolishly, believed once he got elected he would put on his big boy pants.

It honestly never occurred to me that he had no such garment to cloak himself in.
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I didn’t have high expectations. For a while, I was nervous he would mix economic populism with white nationalist policies. If majorities of white people were economically thriving and seeing illegal immigrants rounded up, Muslims being banned, pushed out, and rounded up if overstaying the ban, and registries going into the place, I wasn’t sure white people would care much about the statehood or rights of their non white and immigrant neighbors. They are disappearing, but who cares, I have a job and my wallet is fat.

In a sense, I believe I saw a lot of those attitudes; the dismissive nature towards the border camps and deaths, no concern or alarm when Trump told soldiers to shoot people on the border if they through a rock, all the bigotry he in engaged in, and then for him and his followers to constantly tell African Americans that they have jobs and the best unemployment rates ever. Yeah, the economy is good for us and for you so just STFU.

It was all about the economy, but his economic policies weren’t really producing a huge American comeback nor was it real populism. He just kept lying and lying about the economy like it was amazing. Yes, the market really did go up, but that’s not the real economy, and it’s probably going to crash again because it’s artificially inflated with Corp tax cuts and not real economic growth.
 
SheWolf said:
I wasn’t against Trump simply because he was a Republican. I was against him because of his campaign rhetoric towards Mexicans, Muslims, and immigrants. His threats of mass deportations, removing dreamers, changing citizenship, Muslim bans and registries was very serious and unacceptable. The fact that we have all these people stuck in border camps with allegations of abuse is not surprising, and it could have been a lot more people. Also, threatening to lock up his political opponents was horrifying.

If he were an average Republican not engaging in that kind of rhetoric, my reaction to him would have been a lot different. I viewed Trump as an authoritarian strongman and a threat to Democracy. I am not surprised he refused to concede and he refused to attend the inauguration. The fact that he was dangerous and unfit to lead a free country was obvious by his rhetoric.
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What I have found out that a lot of folks who feels as you do, wouldn't have voted for Trump anyway. There's a lot of things baked into these things, elections also. History shows that 92% on average who identify with either major party will vote for their party's candidate regardless of who that candidate is. 2020 was an above average year where 94% of Democrats voted for Biden, 94% of Republicans voted for Trump. Only 5% of those who identify as Democrats voted for Trump, 6% of Republicans for Biden. 2016 was a below average year in which 89% of those who affiliate with the Democrats voted for Clinton, 88% of Republicans for Trump.

It was independents, the non-affiliated who broke with Trump from 2016 to 2020. From a plus 4 for Trump in 2016 to a plus 13 to Biden in 2020, a swing of 17 points.Yet this group was fairly split evenly on Trump's policies. So it wasn't what he did or didn't do as president policy wise, it wasn't his stances on the issues, even those you mentioned that changed their minds about him. It was his personality.

I would wager if Trump had the personality or persona he presented of a Reagan or a Bill Clinton he would have won reelection regardless of his policies toward Mexicans, Muslims, etc. For a lot of independents, they're not political junkies, they don't follow the daily grinds of politics, most only become interested in 2-4 weeks prior to an election. Quite a lot of them base their vote on their perceptions of the candidates, whether or not they like what they see in a candidate, more or less a beauty contest. In 2020 it was a personality contest. One could put these elections, 2016 Obnoxious, uncouth, rude vs elitist, aloof, Obnoxious, uncouth won. In 2020, Obnoxious, uncouth, rude vs. a very bland, uninspiring, old candidate in Biden, the adult in the room, the adult won. With the two major parties fairly even, 31-29% how this largest group of the electorate becomes the most important group of voters. One needs to realize independents now make up approximately 40% of the electorate. Up from just 30% in 2006 and growing as the two major parties shrink. There's good reason for that, but the major parties don't want to hear it.
 
Perotista said:
What I have found out that a lot of folks who feels as you do, wouldn't have voted for Trump anyway. There's a lot of things baked into these things, elections also. History shows that 92% on average who identify with either major party will vote for their party's candidate regardless of who that candidate is. 2020 was an above average year where 94% of Democrats voted for Biden, 94% of Republicans voted for Trump. Only 5% of those who identify as Democrats voted for Trump, 6% of Republicans for Biden. 2016 was a below average year in which 89% of those who affiliate with the Democrats voted for Clinton, 88% of Republicans for Trump.

It was independents, the non-affiliated who broke with Trump from 2016 to 2020. From a plus 4 for Trump in 2016 to a plus 13 to Biden in 2020, a swing of 17 points.Yet this group was fairly split evenly on Trump's policies. So it wasn't what he did or didn't do as president policy wise, it wasn't his stances on the issues, even those you mentioned that changed their minds about him. It was his personality.

I would wager if Trump had the personality or persona he presented of a Reagan or a Bill Clinton he would have won reelection regardless of his policies toward Mexicans, Muslims, etc. For a lot of independents, they're not political junkies, they don't follow the daily grinds of politics, most only become interested in 2-4 weeks prior to an election. Quite a lot of them base their vote on their perceptions of the candidates, whether or not they like what they see in a candidate, more or less a beauty contest. In 2020 it was a personality contest. One could put these elections, 2016 Obnoxious, uncouth, rude vs elitist, aloof, Obnoxious, uncouth won. In 2020, Obnoxious, uncouth, rude vs. a very bland, uninspiring, old candidate in Biden, the adult in the room, the adult won. With the two major parties fairly even, 31-29% how this largest group of the electorate becomes the most important group of voters. One needs to realize independents now make up approximately 40% of the electorate. Up from just 30% in 2006 and growing as the two major parties shrink. There's good reason for that, but the major parties don't want to hear it.
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I am afraid you’re right about one thing. The majority of Americans would have been fine with Trump if his policies were worse and more ghastly towards immigrants and non white people had he had a better personality and didn’t screw up Covid. Seeing Trump rise to power and having to face and deal with my own coworkers and friends rationalizing his campaign rhetoric really opened my eyes. Actually, it was scary af at times.

But I also think you’re wrong in saying it was all about party affiliation, because Trump supporters were always fired up and enthusiastic even in the primaries. Trump beat everybody else out in the primary, because the base loved him. It wasn’t a matter of somebody wins the primary, then everybody goes to their partisan corners like always. Trump also attacked the GOP establishment. Have you heard him talk about the Bush family? Trump himself wasn’t a Republican, nor did he pretend to be a Republican on brand. Trump’s rise to power wasn’t a matter of just normal partisanship.
 
SheWolf said:
I am afraid you’re right about one thing. The majority of Americans would have been fine with Trump if his policies were worse and more ghastly towards immigrants and non white people had he had a better personality and didn’t screw up Covid. Seeing Trump rise to power and having to face and deal with my own coworkers and friends rationalizing his campaign rhetoric really opened my eyes. Actually, it was scary af at times.

But I also think you’re wrong in saying it was all about party affiliation, because Trump supporters were always fired up and enthusiastic even in the primaries. Trump beat everybody else out in the primary, because the base loved him. It wasn’t a matter of somebody wins the primary, then everybody goes to their partisan corners like always. Trump also attacked the GOP establishment. Have you heard him talk about the Bush family? Trump himself wasn’t a Republican, nor did he pretend to be a Republican on brand. Trump’s rise to power wasn’t a matter of just normal partisanship.
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Looking back on the primaries, 2016 type, Trump did have the largest faction within the GOP. He was winning primary after primary with 30-35% of the vote. The way the GOP worked the rules, 35% was enough to get Trump over the 50% mark with a month to go. After Trump cinched, then it became a party partisan affair. The R behind Trump's name made most Republicans forget what he was actually about. It became a case of my worst is better than you best, especially since it was Hillary Clinton as Trump's opponent. The hate for her has been pretty deep within the GOP, independents also didn't like her. Only Democrats did. Independent also didn't like Trump, but it was basically a choice of Trump or Clinton. In fact according to Gallup, 54% of all independents disliked both major party candidates in 2016 and wanted neither one as the next president.

news.gallup.com

One in Four Americans Dislike Both Presidential Candidates

In the U.S., one in four view Trump and Clinton unfavorably, much higher than the percentage who disliked both candidates in 2012 or 2008. But this doesn't mean turnout will be low or a third-party candidate will be successful.
news.gallup.com news.gallup.com

I firmly believe that almost any other Democrat besides Hillary Clinton would have trounced Trump in 2016. 70% of independents had an unfavorable/negative view of Hillary Clinton, 57% had a negative/unfavorable view of Trump. Questions 10 % 11


I never took Trump seriously back then. I still can't figure out how a 7 time party switcher who only became a Republican for the third time in 2012 could win the GOP nomination. Perhaps that was the problem, very few of us took Trump seriously, followed by the nomination of Hillary Clinton by the Democrats which a majority of Americans didn't want. In fact in a February 2016 poll, 56% of all Americans wanted the Democratic Party to nominate someone other than Hillary. All Americans don't determine the Democratic Nominee, Democrats do. But all Americans do determine who wins in November. Perhaps that is something the Democrats forgot in 2016..

But with Biden, I'd say they learned from 2016. If anyone can start getting this country back to saner times, back to more normalcy, back on the right track, Biden is the one. At least I think so.
 
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