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...FDR had a warrant to intercept and decipher the Japanese Diplomatic codes in the months leading up to WW2?
Lefty said:The US intellegence gathering system is not what it is today.
Lefty said:The US intellegence gathering system is not what it is today. If you are trying to imply that FDR could have prevented Pearl Harbor by intercepting Japanese codes if he didn't need to get a warrant you are speculating beyond belief.
M14 Shooter said:No...
I'm asking if FDR violated the 4th amendment, just as Bush supposedly has.
Is there a difference between what Bush did and what FDR did?
If so, what?
aps said:I don't know whether what FDR did violated the 4th amendment; HOWEVER, I do know that the fact that someone else violated the constitution is not a very good defense for Bush.
M14 Shooter said:-If FDR didnt violate the 4th amendment, then Bush didn't.
-If FDR (and any number of other Presidents) did what Bush did w/o any constitutional concern, then there is clear precedent for the argument that Bush had the power to do what he did.
Lefty said:The US intellegence gathering system is not what it is today. If you are trying to imply that FDR could have prevented Pearl Harbor by intercepting Japanese codes if he didn't need to get a warrant you are speculating beyond belief.
Oh and by the way, the FISA law requiring warrants to listen to international calls was created in the 1970's... Oh and WWII began way before we entered the war.
M14 Shooter said:...FDR had a warrant to intercept and decipher the Japanese Diplomatic codes in the months leading up to WW2?
Navy Pride said:He was a democrat.........He didn't need it............:roll:
libertarian_knight said:Not to mention, the courts and the law do not require a warrant for intercepts of communications concerning foriegn persons or buildings (primarily embassies) at home or abroad, so long as there is no reasonable likelihood of intercepting communication to which a US-Person is party.
Stace said:Now, why'd you have to turn this into a partisan debate? I know I've said this before, but not everything is as black and white, or cut and dry, as that. :roll:
M14 Shooter said:Sure about that?
You dont have to be a citizen to be protected by the 4th amendment, you just have to be in the US.
Given that, there's no real difference between what Bush (et al) did and what FDR did.
M14 Shooter said:But... its true.
When the Clinton administration took the same position that the Bush administration has now, the Democrats didnt scream for his impeachment.
And neither did the Republicans.
I didn't make up a thing.Lefty said:You mean to say that there is no real difference between what Bush actually did, and what you just made up about FDR.
Given your ignorance, illustrated above, that's not a surprise.Clinton violated the 4th Amendment? News to me.
But it does illustrate the partisan bigotry of the left.Doesn't matter, it still doesn't justify the actions of President Bush.
M14 Shooter said:Sure about that?
You dont have to be a citizen to be protected by the 4th amendment, you just have to be in the US.
Given that, there's no real difference between what Bush (et al) did and what FDR did.
M14 Shooter said:I didn't make up a thing.
We were reading the japanese diplomatic code as fast as the Japanese were.
M14 Shooter said:Given the above, that's not a surprise.
M14 Shooter said:Bit it does illustrate the partisan bigotry of the left.
libertarian_knight said:Actually, I agree with that interpretation, the 4th says "no person" not "no Citizen." However, FISA and the courts treat the law as such that embassies and non us-persons can have their communications intercepted by the government at will, without need for a warrant, in any circumstance.
Explain, in detail, how it is different.Lefty said:This isn't a good comparison. It's completely different. You realize this?... no you don't.
Sigh.Okay, fine, if I'm so ignorant, enlighten me.
So, where was the outrage when Clinton did it?Well... no. I'm saying that if FDR or Clinton did something wrong, it doesn't make it right for Bush to do it. Just as it would be wrong to say "Oh well Bush did it, so what Clinton did was fine!"
I do.Lefty said:I wasn't even 10 yet by 1994, so I don't really know.
Stace said:Now, why'd you have to turn this into a partisan debate? I know I've said this before, but not everything is as black and white, or cut and dry, as that. :roll:
Navy Pride said:Stace, here is a flash for you.Everyone in this forum is partisan, including you and I......
The Japanese are US Citizens? News to me. Because that's the crux of the law, right, the citizenship.M14 Shooter said:...FDR had a warrant to intercept and decipher the Japanese Diplomatic codes in the months leading up to WW2?
Stace said:No, really, you think? That does NOT mean that every debate has to become a partisan issue. Believe it or not, it is possible for two people from both sides of the aisle to agree.