• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Does anybody else find it crazy that some kid from Scandinavia is more well known than scientists?

dex4974

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Messages
6,593
Reaction score
1,585
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Communist

Visbek

Stuck In The Circle
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
20,834
Reaction score
14,797
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
What has she really done?
She's an activist who wound up galvanizing international attention to the cause of climate change.


Why is she in the spotlight?
Luck, grit, tenacity, directness, and a compelling message.


What about the incredible professionals leading the way in this struggle?
Uhhh... Got a little news flash for you: Paying attention to Ms Thunberg does not in any way detract from listening to climate scientists.

I have no idea why you'd think that, unless you are just desperate for reasons to discredit her.
 

dex4974

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Messages
6,593
Reaction score
1,585
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Communist
She's an activist who wound up galvanizing international attention to the cause of climate change.

Everybody knew about climate change already.

Luck, grit, tenacity, directness, and a compelling message.

Her message is not compelling or unique.

Uhhh... Got a little news flash for you: Paying attention to Ms Thunberg does not in any way detract from listening to climate scientists.

I have no idea why you'd think that, unless you are just desperate for reasons to discredit her.

I don't think that, but I bet most people couldn't name a single climate scientist.
 

Jack Hays

Traveler
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
94,822
Reaction score
28,340
Location
Williamsburg, Virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
[h=2]German Portrait Of The Thunberg-Ernman Family: Acutely Dysfunctional, “An Infinitely Sad Family History”[/h]By P Gosselin on 26. October 2019
At the German libertarian site achgut.com here, guest writer Ulrike Stockmann writes a portrait of climate activist Greta Thunberg’s family. The title: “The Thunberg-Ernmans: An infinitely sad family history“. Ulrike Stockmann writes a portrait of the Ernman-Thunberg family. Image: achgut.com Stockmann portrait is based on the published book by Greta Thunberg’s mother, Malena Ernman: “Scenes […]
 

Jack Hays

Traveler
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
94,822
Reaction score
28,340
Location
Williamsburg, Virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The cult of Greta Thunberg

[FONT=&quot]Anyone who doubts that the green movement is morphing into a millenarian cult should take a close look at Greta Thunberg. This poor young woman increasingly looks and sounds like a cult member. The monotone voice. The look of apocalyptic dread in her eyes. The explicit talk of the coming great ‘fire’ that will punish us for our eco-sins. There is something chilling and positively pre-modern about Ms Thunberg. One can imagine her in a sparse wooden church in the Plymouth Colony in the 1600s warning parishioners of the hellfire that will rain upon them if they fail to give up their witches. . . . [/FONT]
 

AlphaOmega

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
19,882
Reaction score
3,781

Jack Hays

Traveler
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
94,822
Reaction score
28,340
Location
Williamsburg, Virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
[h=1]Thunberg on Science[/h]Posted on 21 Aug 20 by GEOFF CHAMBERS 5 Comments
Greta Thunberg is one of those hard-to-pin-down thinkers whose ideas are widespread and influential without being well-defined. Like Sigmund Freud, Michel Foucault, and Russell Brand. Of course, she has written them down. In a book, published by Penguin Science. With an average of six lines of writing on each page. Like a Noddy book, though without … Con
 

Germinator

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
403
Reaction score
193
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
She's an activist who wound up galvanizing international attention to the cause of climate change.

Everybody knew about climate change already.


Luck, grit, tenacity, directness, and a compelling message.

Her message is not compelling or unique.


Uhhh... Got a little news flash for you: Paying attention to Ms Thunberg does not in any way detract from listening to climate scientists.

I have no idea why you'd think that, unless you are just desperate for reasons to discredit her.

I don't think that, but I bet most people couldn't name a single climate scientist.


having been introduced to the physics of climate change for decades personally have to say its refreshing to have a non-scientist (celebrity of sorts) trying to bring attention to actual science given the fact that many are not facing the issue head on

6ad5fc38e53d67a5edc3d9666a21b41f7975b8c7.gif


sadly seems some in leadership positions are not exactly brave enough to face the daunting problem of climate change head on

169553ddfa6059cee9c8d1ed40762bf167b20142.gif


I've never taken a formal psychology class but from news reports take it Thunberg has some mental health issues (and according to her in interviews the extreme focus on specific topics is her superpower)

Greta Thunberg on the "gift" of Asperger's in fighting climate change - CBS News

e25060ce7246c43873de67a97bf6d14879d8dc7b.jpeg


PS given the inconvenient virus and the need to social distance am taking the opportunity to learn how to photoshop as they say,... so came up w/ all the images above which IMHO is worth a 1000 words,... I crack myself up!!!
 
Last edited:

Jack Hays

Traveler
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
94,822
Reaction score
28,340
Location
Williamsburg, Virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent

Germinator

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
403
Reaction score
193
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent


A study in my home town (of San Diego) asked if people could identify the scientific reason why man made climate change is happening,... the findings, seems no one could correctly answer the question.

Why Some Don'''t Believe Humans Cause Climate Change | NOVA | PBS | NOVA | PBS

Thinking the findings were a fluke did my own informal survey (last year in 2019) about what causes climate change at two venues (a startup conference AND a gathering of people advocating for environmental issues).

Figured individuals at a tech startup conference AND a gathering of people advocating for the environment would be more "scientifically" knowledgeable about climate change.

Sadly found only one individual at the startup conference could correctly identify the scientific idea behind the greenhouse effect.

Since I like many others are stuck at home "social distancing" to prevent the spread of the virus, am using the time off to learn how to use image editing software.

Long story short came up with a group of images that hopefully makes understandable the scientific mumbo jumbo behind the greenhouse effect AND mercifully also will lay to rest the politically motivated idea that climate change is a hoax invented by the Chinese.

2e425653119757c74fdf5bb43eea81d1e2464673.png


749d8409268bd2cdf44964c9a3acb4eb12d73df6.png


6ed11d0c0a027d5c35b884e54a7c298774401eb3.png


a6b9b175d19c1e43b02e142bc42fbeb2a8ac00ea.png


eb27af6786adb809f4778c54b35eeab039c9033d.jpeg


PS FWIW feel the need to do this because "Most Teachers Don’t Teach Climate Change; 4 In 5 Parents Wish They Did"

Climate Change Earth Day Poll: 4 In 5 Parents Want It In Schools : NPR
 

Jack Hays

Traveler
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
94,822
Reaction score
28,340
Location
Williamsburg, Virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
A study in my home town (of San Diego) asked if people could identify the scientific reason why man made climate change is happening,... the findings, seems no one could correctly answer the question. . . .

Nonetheless, it's pseudoscience.
 

Germinator

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
403
Reaction score
193
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Nonetheless, it's pseudoscience.

huh, so how is this BASIC well understood science,.... pseudoscience???

2e425653119757c74fdf5bb43eea81d1e2464673.png


749d8409268bd2cdf44964c9a3acb4eb12d73df6.png


6ed11d0c0a027d5c35b884e54a7c298774401eb3.png


a6b9b175d19c1e43b02e142bc42fbeb2a8ac00ea.png


seems pretty straight forward, a chemical combustion reaction creates a long lived stable green house gas (i.e. burning 1 gal of gas produces about 20 lbs of CO2)

...we know global daily oil production/consumption is around ball park 80,000,000 barrels of oil a day

World Crude Oil Production

...there are about 42 gal of oil in a barrel

What'''s in a Barrel of Oil? The 42-Gallon Breakdown - Petroleum Service Company

basically that's lots of CO2 bring introduced into the atmosphere on a daily basis (which hangs around for many human life times) which collectively traps infrared heat

[sarcasm ON]

9c87b99c3aeb20ac52327fe4dd48c72dd8b75761_2_750x750.jpeg


[sarcasm OFF]

FWIW I've got a background in physics and am now trying to get in touch w/ my artistic/comedic side,... like the mashup of images???
 
Last edited:

istodolez

Banned
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Messages
2,951
Reaction score
551
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
[h=2]German Portrait Of The Thunberg-Ernman Family: Acutely Dysfunctional, “An Infinitely Sad Family History”[/h]By P Gosselin on 26. October 2019
At the German libertarian site achgut.com here, guest writer Ulrike Stockmann writes a portrait of climate activist Greta Thunberg’s family. The title: “The Thunberg-Ernmans: An infinitely sad family history“. Ulrike Stockmann writes a portrait of the Ernman-Thunberg family. Image: achgut.com Stockmann portrait is based on the published book by Greta Thunberg’s mother, Malena Ernman: “Scenes […]

And this is relevant exactly how?
 

istodolez

Banned
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Messages
2,951
Reaction score
551
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
The cult of Greta Thunberg

[FONT="]Anyone who doubts that the green movement is morphing into a millenarian cult should take a close look at Greta Thunberg. This poor young woman increasingly looks and sounds like a cult member. The monotone voice. The look of apocalyptic dread in her eyes. The explicit talk of the coming great ‘fire’ that will punish us for our eco-sins. There is something chilling and positively pre-modern about Ms Thunberg. One can imagine her in a sparse wooden church in the Plymouth Colony in the 1600s warning parishioners of the hellfire that will rain upon them if they fail to give up their witches. . . . [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Jeezus, dude, she's on the[URL="https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2019/09/27/greta-thunberg-why-she-called-aspergers-her-superpower/#3cb05cbd4101"] asperger's spectrum[/URL]. What is wrong with the ghouls at Wattsup? What kind of critique is this???? "Monotone voice" = cult member...ugh.
 

Jack Hays

Traveler
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
94,822
Reaction score
28,340
Location
Williamsburg, Virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
huh, so how is this BASIC well understood science,.... pseudoscience??? . . .

FWIW I've got a background in physics and am now trying to get in touch w/ my artistic/comedic side,... like the mashup of images???

[h=3]The author is the Chairman of the Racah Center for Physics at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and an IBM Einstein Fellow at the Institute for Advanced Studies.[/h][h=2]How Climate Change Pseudoscience Became Publicly Accepted[/h]
[h=2]Solar Debunking Arguments are Defunct[/h]
 

Jack Hays

Traveler
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
94,822
Reaction score
28,340
Location
Williamsburg, Virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent

istodolez

Banned
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Messages
2,951
Reaction score
551
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
She chose to enter the limelight.

And people who mock the disabled for their disability are still evil.

The disabled reporter that Trump mocked so viciously was a "public figure" in that he was a reporter for a major newspaper. That didn't make Trump's mockery a valid criticism. It made us realize how immoral and evil Trump could be when he wanted to.

"Children with autism spectrum disorder have good vocabularies but unusual ways of expressing themselves. They may talk in a monotone voice and do not recognize the need to control the volume of their voice, speaking loudly in libraries or movie theaters, for example."
(Source: What Is Autism Spectrum Disorder?) (Emphasis added)

"For example, many people with ASD have an atypically high, monotone vocal pitch. But so far there has been no precise method that could be used to identify this with ASD."
(Source: Autism can be revealed by your voice patterns) (Emphasis added)
 

Jack Hays

Traveler
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
94,822
Reaction score
28,340
Location
Williamsburg, Virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
And people who mock the disabled for their disability are still evil.

The disabled reporter that Trump mocked so viciously was a "public figure" in that he was a reporter for a major newspaper. That didn't make Trump's mockery a valid criticism. It made us realize how immoral and evil Trump could be when he wanted to.

"Children with autism spectrum disorder have good vocabularies but unusual ways of expressing themselves. They may talk in a monotone voice and do not recognize the need to control the volume of their voice, speaking loudly in libraries or movie theaters, for example."
(Source: What Is Autism Spectrum Disorder?) (Emphasis added)

"For example, many people with ASD have an atypically high, monotone vocal pitch. But so far there has been no precise method that could be used to identify this with ASD."
(Source: Autism can be revealed by your voice patterns) (Emphasis added)

Sorry, no straw men allowed. She chose to be a public figure.
 

Germinator

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
403
Reaction score
193
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
[h=3]The author is the Chairman of the Racah Center for Physics at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and an IBM Einstein Fellow at the Institute for Advanced Studies.[/h][h=2]How Climate Change Pseudoscience Became Publicly Accepted[/h]
[h=2]Solar Debunking Arguments are Defunct[/h]

FWIW the knuckleheads who introduce me to the issue of climate change were pioneers in the field Revelle and Keeling

the reason I'm name dropping so to speak is because they gave me some insight into the topic that is worth passing along

basically when I had the good fortune to run into these two characters,... was an undergrad double major (poli-sci AND physics)

the seminar class I was taking, was to set up to try and get individuals setting themselves up for careers in policy to appreciate the science (being a double major, I kinda had an insight to be able look at the issue from various points of view)

anyway since the class was small and really informal we would just sit around a table and basically bull**** about a topic after having been given a presentation by a scientist (working on a subject they found interesting)

long story short, as a physics major ya start off solving problems like

F=ma (i.e. force = mass x acceleration)

the insight I picked up from REVELLE and KEELING is climate change isn't a simple physics problem like F=ma AND its difficult to model accurately because of all the variables, so the advise given to me at the time is, look to see what the trends are, to evaluate the risk

now that ya have an idea where I've come from,...

given "global dimming" (which was known 20 years ago and indicates mankind does indeed have the ability to directly influence the global climate), "decreasing pH levels in the oceans" (which is another clear signal that indicates mankind does indeed have the ability to directly influence the environment), the 2015 Berkeley lab paper on the observation of CO2 increasing greenhouse effect at the earth's surface, the ever increasing concentrations of CO2 in the atmosphere (i.e. the keeling curve) and known physical properties of the CO2 molecule,... is just part of the overwhelming scientific evidence that basically tells mankind that we,... "human beings are now carrying out a large scale geophysical experiment of a kind that could not have happened in the past nor be reproduced in the future." (this last line FYI is from a 1957 paper written by Revelle)

basically as I see things,… AGW DENIERS are too busy doing other stuff and not paying attention to the science or the environment

512f471ba3a2114dd80e50109b7e6065e05030d1.gif
 

Jack Hays

Traveler
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
94,822
Reaction score
28,340
Location
Williamsburg, Virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
FWIW the knuckleheads who introduce me to the issue of climate change were pioneers in the field Revelle and Keeling . . . .

basically as I see things,… AGW DENIERS are too busy doing other stuff and not paying attention to the science or the environment

"Generally speaking, we can observe that the scientists in any particular institutional and political setting move as a flock, reserving their controversies and particular originalities for matters that do not call into question the fundamental system of biases they share."
Gunnar Myrdal, Objectivity in Social Research
 

COTO

Panthera Uncia
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
3,802
Reaction score
1,539
Location
Toronto, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Uhhh... Got a little news flash for you: Paying attention to Ms Thunberg does not in any way detract from listening to climate scientists.
Doesn't it?

You seem to be claiming in post #2 that Ms. Thunberg's theatrics are needed because the climate scientists don't have a compelling message. Otherwise, why the theatrics?
 

Germinator

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
403
Reaction score
193
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
[h=3]The author is the Chairman of the Racah Center for Physics at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and an IBM Einstein Fellow at the Institute for Advanced Studies.[/h][h=2]How Climate Change Pseudoscience Became Publicly Accepted[/h]
[h=2]Solar Debunking Arguments are Defunct[/h]

continued

...WRT the your guy and the two blog posts ya offered as evidence

The West would then realize that global warming never was and never will be a serious problem. In the meantime, the extra CO2 in the atmosphere would even increase agriculture yields, as it has been found to do in arid regions in particular. It is plant food after all.

How Climate Change Pseudoscience Became Publicly Accepted | ScienceBits

huh,... seems its akin to talking points put forth in a known FAKE NEWS site (that pushes the same narrative about CO2 being plant food)

Global greening is happening faster than climate change, and it’s a good thing | Watts Up With That?

Watts Up with That - Media Bias/Fact Check

have to laugh at this because looking at the issue as I was taught by REVELLE and KEELING if ya bothered to dig a bit deeper ya would have found out there are limiting factors, specifically plant growth nutrients

Amazon carbon sink could be 'much less' due to lack of soil nutrients

...Nitrogen is essential for plant growth as it is a core building block in essential components including proteins and chlorophyl, the pigment responsible for photosynthesis.

If there is not enough nitrogen for plants to grow, they will remove less carbon from the atmosphere, even as CO2 concentrations rise.

...scientists have known for decades that in tropical forests, it is not nitrogen levels that tend to constrain plant growth, but phosphorus. In plants, phosphorus supports regular growth as well as vital functions including photosynthesis.

Along with other minerals such as magnesium and calcium, phosphorus enters the soil via the weathering of rocks, in processes that have not taken place in much of the Amazon for millions of years. By contrast, the glaciers that covered Europe 10,000 years ago led to new soil formation, meaning these nutrients are less of a limit on plant growth in the region.

Despite this knowledge, a lack of experimental data means modellers have tended to leave phosphorus and other nutrients out of their simulations.

www.carbonbrief.org/amazon-carbon-sink-could-be-much-less-due-to-lack-of-soil-nutrients

then in the other blog post ya offered as evidence with his graph from Shaviv 2008 and prose about a free speech coverup

Calorimeter.jpg


blah, blah, blah

Shepherd did not debunk the solar forcing. His arguments are defunct. Unless he comes up with a very good explanation to the first graph above, he should instead advocate taking solar forcing into account. The fact that forbes hushes up any possibility for having a scientific debate should be considered truly bothersome by anyone who values free speech and scientific debate. Truth will prevail irrespectively.

http://www.sciencebits.com/solar-debunking-arguments-are-defunct

I'd have to look into it further but from what I know about solar forcing I'd look into the long term orbital dynamics (and see how what ever he is trying to point out fits orbital dynamics which plays a bigger role in determining the climate than solar activity)

https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2948/milankovitch-orbital-cycles-and-their-role-in-earths-climate/

https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/solar-activity/en/

truth be told the author ya suggested seems like he is throwing up yet another AGW whataboutism (i.e. fake news blog post) BECAUSE the 2015 paper which found "First Direct Observation of Carbon Dioxide’s Increasing Greenhouse Effect at the Earth’s Surface" AND then there is orbital dynamics which plays a bigger role in determining the climate than solar activity which is relatively constant in comparison in geological time (science knows this because of the Keeling curve and Milankovitch cycles)

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature14240

6f59609e9e411deaad86e09e242a918e91e31d31.jpeg
 
Last edited:

istodolez

Banned
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Messages
2,951
Reaction score
551
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Sorry, no straw men allowed. She chose to be a public figure.

I cannot accept that a public figure deserves to be MOCKED for a disability which has nothing to do with their public position.
 
Top Bottom