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Does AIPAC's War Against Rand Paul Constitute 'Foreign Meddling'?

Does AIPAC's War Against Rand Paul Constitute 'Foreign Meddling'?


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truthatallcost

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Note: This thread is about AIPACs war against Rand Paul. Please do not attempt to discuss Israel/Palestine in this discussion. Thank you.

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WASHINGTON — Republican Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky has drawn the ire of Israel advocacy groups for blocking a vote on legislation that codifies a decade-long Memorandum of Understanding between Israel and the US worth $38 billion, negotiated by the Obama administration in 2016 and supported across the political aisle.

AIPAC’s sponsored Facebook and Twitter ad asks Kentuckians to “Urge Senator Rand Paul: Stop Blocking Aid to Israel.” CUFI’s action fund this week launched a two-week, $100,000 digital and cable news ad “asking voters in the Bluegrass State to call or email Paul’s office and request he stop blocking this vital legislation.”

In 2014, Paul introduced a pro-Israel bill to the Senate that called for the cancellation of aid to the PLO unless they recognized Israel as a Jewish state and terminated terrorist activities.

https://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Isr...sure-Rand-Paul-over-hold-on-Israel-aid-573039

AIPAC exists as a lobbyist group for foreign interests, spending millions of dollars per year to influence American elected officials to give money and favoritism to a foreign country. Unlike Russia, Israel enjoys near unanimous support in the House & Senate, thanks to AIPAC being allowed to operate with virtually no oversight or scrutiny from the American media or Congress.

Does AIPAC's War Against Rand Paul Constitute 'Foreign Meddling'?
 

Mycroft

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Note: This thread is about AIPACs war against Rand Paul. Please do not attempt to discuss Israel/Palestine in this discussion. Thank you.



AIPAC exists as a lobbyist group for foreign interests, spending millions of dollars per year to influence American elected officials to give money and favoritism to a foreign country. Unlike Russia, Israel enjoys near unanimous support in the House & Senate, thanks to AIPAC being allowed to operate with virtually no oversight or scrutiny from the American media or Congress.

Does AIPAC's War Against Rand Paul Constitute 'Foreign Meddling'?

Paul’s office says his opposition to the bill is not a specific critique of Israel, but within his broader political philosophy against foreign aid, of which Israel is by far the largest recipient. A statement from the senator on Wednesday emphasized his longstanding position against indefinite aid commitments, and questioned why Congress also offered aid “to people who hate Israel and America.”

That sounds like a fair response. I wonder what AIPAC's response to this is? The article doesn't say.

Is AIPAC a foreign organization?
 

Abbazorkzog

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Yes. Yes it does. So does Saudi Arabia. So does the UAE. So does any country or international/world leader or political elite who uses his or her money to influence our elections. Foreign meddling is foreign meddling no matter where it comes from. Its not only bad if Russia does it, its bad if anyone does it, even so-called 'democracies'. If I am to be okay with this, then I must also be okay with Russian meddling in our elections to install Trump, and I must also be okay with the countless elections and governments the U.S. itself has meddled in (far more than anyone else). And I'll die before I am ever going to be okay with such madness.
 

Felis Leo

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Note: This thread is about AIPACs war against Rand Paul. Please do not attempt to discuss Israel/Palestine in this discussion. Thank you.



AIPAC exists as a lobbyist group for foreign interests, spending millions of dollars per year to influence American elected officials to give money and favoritism to a foreign country. Unlike Russia, Israel enjoys near unanimous support in the House & Senate, thanks to AIPAC being allowed to operate with virtually no oversight or scrutiny from the American media or Congress.

Does AIPAC's War Against Rand Paul Constitute 'Foreign Meddling'?

No. American organizations that take strong interests in foreign policy matters do not in any way constitute foreign meddling.
 

Praxas

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No. American organizations that take strong interests in foreign policy matters do not in any way constitute foreign meddling.

Funny, you should say that, but you cons have issues with American organizations that take strong interests in foreign policy matters when it deals in favor of MUSLIMS.
 

Felis Leo

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Funny, you should say that, but you cons have issues with American organizations that take strong interests in foreign policy matters when it deals in favor of MUSLIMS.

That is often true, Praxas, but it really depends on the organization. I just happen to vehemently despise organizations that wish to spread a violent anti-democratic theocratic ideology which is being propounded by many Islamist organizations, such as the Muslim Brotherhood and Hizb ut-Tarhir and their many affiliates. But I do not despise them because they make common alliance with strange foreigners with alien customs and indecipherable languages. For example, I am not against other Muslim organizations such as the British-based counter-extremism organization Quilliam run by Maajid Nawaz.
 

Felis Leo

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Yes. Yes it does. So does Saudi Arabia. So does the UAE. So does any country or international/world leader or political elite who uses his or her money to influence our elections. Foreign meddling is foreign meddling no matter where it comes from. Its not only bad if Russia does it, its bad if anyone does it, even so-called 'democracies'. If I am to be okay with this, then I must also be okay with Russian meddling in our elections to install Trump, and I must also be okay with the countless elections and governments the U.S. itself has meddled in (far more than anyone else). And I'll die before I am ever going to be okay with such madness.

Here is my thought, Abbazorkzog: As long as I know who the ad or communication is coming from, I am perfectly okay with most so-called "foreign meddling." And here is why: Our government has no right whatsoever to keep me from reading what I want to read, watching what I want to watch, or listening to who I want to listen to when it comes to matters of political import. If a Russian state propaganda outlet like Russia Today or Sputnik News wants to rip into someone like the late John McCain or Hillary Clinton for their strong stance against the Russian government, I believe I am well within my rights to consume those media, whether I ultimately disagree with them or not. And if entities with ties to foreign countries wish to propound their ideas, so long as we know which organizations they are coming from, I think they should be free to air their thoughts to the American people. And more importantly, I believe the American people should be free to listen.
 
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Apocalypse

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Foreign meddling by who? By which foreign entity? AIPAC aren't foreign. It's a group of American citizens pushing for an American foreign policy agenda.
 

Abbazorkzog

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Here is my thought, Abbazorkzog: As long as I know who the ad or communication is coming from, I am perfectly okay with most so-called "foreign meddling." And here is why: Our government has no right whatsoever to keep me from reading what I want to read, watching what I want to watch, or listening to who I want to listen to when it comes to matters of political import. If a Russian state propaganda outlet like Russia Today or Sputnik News wants to rip into someone like the late John McCain or Hillary Clinton for their strong stance against the Russian government, I believe I am well within my rights to consume those media, whether I ultimately disagree with them or not. And if entities with ties to foreign countries wish to propound their ideas, so long as we know which organizations they are coming from, I think they should be free to air their thoughts to the American people. And more importantly, I believe the American people should be free to listen.

Hey, can't say I disagree with that. In my opinion it is quite mad, though. But, then again, virtually every man-made power-structure has some element of madness to it.
 

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If they'd directly interfere in KY's elections, yes. Do they sow a seed? Yes.
BTW, did someone catch the tax exempt Pastor Haggee's name? I
 

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Lord Tammerlain

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Yes. Yes it does. So does Saudi Arabia. So does the UAE. So does any country or international/world leader or political elite who uses his or her money to influence our elections. Foreign meddling is foreign meddling no matter where it comes from. Its not only bad if Russia does it, its bad if anyone does it, even so-called 'democracies'. If I am to be okay with this, then I must also be okay with Russian meddling in our elections to install Trump, and I must also be okay with the countless elections and governments the U.S. itself has meddled in (far more than anyone else). And I'll die before I am ever going to be okay with such madness.

There is a legal way of meddling in the US and that is through lobby groups, ensuring the various groups get money to bribe politicians. Bypassing the lobby groups is illegal in the US and is considered bribing, while the other is not
 

DarkWizard12

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Note: This thread is about AIPACs war against Rand Paul. Please do not attempt to discuss Israel/Palestine in this discussion. Thank you.



AIPAC exists as a lobbyist group for foreign interests, spending millions of dollars per year to influence American elected officials to give money and favoritism to a foreign country. Unlike Russia, Israel enjoys near unanimous support in the House & Senate, thanks to AIPAC being allowed to operate with virtually no oversight or scrutiny from the American media or Congress.

Does AIPAC's War Against Rand Paul Constitute 'Foreign Meddling'?

The A in Aipac stands for American, so no.
 

DarkWizard12

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Funny, you should say that, but you cons have issues with American organizations that take strong interests in foreign policy matters when it deals in favor of MUSLIMS.

yea, because we have different interests, not because they may or may not be foreign. That's kind of the point. When Mueller goes after muslim-american organization for foreign meddling, then you can complain.
 

truthatallcost

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That sounds like a fair response. I wonder what AIPAC's response to this is? The article doesn't say.

Is AIPAC a foreign organization?

This is the technicality that pro-Israel advocates exploit; AIPAC is an American nonprofit organization. But they operate at the behest of a foreign country. If there were a pro-Russia lobbyist group staffed with American born people of Russian descent, and their only function was to secure favorable policies for the Kremlin, we'd all be more united in recognizing the threat they posed.
 

truthatallcost

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AIPAC is an American organization. Because it is an American organization, it may lawfully participate fully in the US federal elections process.
-- US Elections – How Can Foreign Nationals Be Involved in the Political Process?

They've been caught spying on the USA in the past. After such revelations came to light, AIPAC should have been forced to register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act. We would have required as much of any lobbyist group caught spying for a foreign country.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Franklin_espionage_scandal

An outsider looking in might come to the conclusion that Israel is the mother country to the USA, rather than England, when observing the way we fawn over them and grant them the right to meddle in American affairs.
 

truthatallcost

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No. American organizations that take strong interests in foreign policy matters do not in any way constitute foreign meddling.

'Strong interests' which have included espionage, and allegedly dictating to a sitting President a list of acceptable candidates for Secretary of State. It's time for some of us to recognize that AIPAC has little in common with other American political non profits.
 

Hatuey

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Foreign meddling by who? By which foreign entity? AIPAC aren't foreign. It's a group of American citizens pushing for an American foreign policy agenda.
The point of this thread is to get somewhat regular people to agree with a lightly veiled hatred of Jews. The rich Jews 'influencing' elections through their American puppets. You know, the Soros and Steins of America, they're the real problem with their backing of organizations. Their message has largely fallen on deaf ears on the left. It's regular talk in the right though. Hell, even Trump's employees regularly rail about rich Jews.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
 

truthatallcost

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That is often true, Praxas, but it really depends on the organization. I just happen to vehemently despise organizations that wish to spread a violent anti-democratic theocratic ideology which is being propounded by many Islamist organizations, such as the Muslim Brotherhood and Hizb ut-Tarhir and their many affiliates. But I do not despise them because they make common alliance with strange foreigners with alien customs and indecipherable languages. For example, I am not against other Muslim organizations such as the British-based counter-extremism organization Quilliam run by Maajid Nawaz.

Quilliam was deemed a racist hate group by SPLC! I raised that issue in the Europe forum, which immediately fell on contentedly deaf ears. The largest organization supporting moderate Islam in the UK is reviled by leftist forces in the UK & US.
 

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Yes, really.
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The funniest part of your response is that you read my entire post and the only issue you had was the last sentence.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
 

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That sounds like a fair response. I wonder what AIPAC's response to this is? The article doesn't say.

Is AIPAC a foreign organization?

No, it is entirely made up of U.S. citizens.
 

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They've been caught spying on the USA in the past. After such revelations came to light, AIPAC should have been forced to register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act. We would have required as much of any lobbyist group caught spying for a foreign country.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Franklin_espionage_scandal

An outsider looking in might come to the conclusion that Israel is the mother country to the USA, rather than England, when observing the way we fawn over them and grant them the right to meddle in American affairs.

It's clear AIPAC employees have "spied"/"lobbied" on behalf of Israel's government; however, it's a huge leap to rely on the referenced info to conclude AIPAC is a foreign organization that expressly lobbies to advance Israel's will, rather than lobbying to advance Jewish Americans' will that happens to align with Israel's.
  • Based on the information in the referenced content to which you've linked, it appears reasonable enough to assert that the AIPAC be a circumstantially convenient fertile field from which Israel "harvests" individuals sufficiently sympathetic to its ways, means and ends that those folks are willing to serve clandestinely (cognizantly or not) to aid and abet Israel's information gathering and/or influence peddling undertakings in the US.
  • Based on that same linked content, I don't see clear enough connections to warrant my ascribing to the notion that the noted plausibility rises to the level of making it preponderantly likely AIPAC itself, as an organization, indeed is a "front" for one or more units of the Israeli government.
So, I'm willing to grant the plausibility and greater-than-negligible probability of the verity of the conclusion(s) you've posited, but I'm not willing to concur (or disagree) with them. In other words, I find your suspicions warranted, but a conclusion about AIPAC's functional nature is premature given the information you've presented.



As for that "outsider looking in," well, I think such an outsider as you describe would have to be incredibly myopic and intellectually indolent to think Israel, rather than England, is the US' mother country, as it were.
 
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Note: This thread is about AIPACs war against Rand Paul. Please do not attempt to discuss Israel/Palestine in this discussion. Thank you.



AIPAC exists as a lobbyist group for foreign interests, spending millions of dollars per year to influence American elected officials to give money and favoritism to a foreign country. Unlike Russia, Israel enjoys near unanimous support in the House & Senate, thanks to AIPAC being allowed to operate with virtually no oversight or scrutiny from the American media or Congress.

Does AIPAC's War Against Rand Paul Constitute 'Foreign Meddling'?

I wouldn't think so since AIPAC is a domestic organization.
 
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