[W:2270] Does a Gun Make Your Home Safer?

[RF667799]

Look, I know you really want to make this a race topic and I'm sorry but I'm more interested in the actual paper itself. Yes, I see that there is a difference in the rate of change that is related to race, but that doesn't change anything in relation to the overall point.

Do I really have to quote the abstract to you AGAIN?

WHY do you INSIST on focusing on race? Is it something you feel you need to really drive home? You have some issues there? HOW WOULD IT MATTER EITHER WAY???

The results still show what I pointed out.

I've quickly found my patience limit with your race-baiting. Please stop.

I see you took my advice. Good show.

 

[Rucker61]

Look, I know you really want to make this a race topic and I'm sorry but I'm more interested in the actual paper itself. Yes, I see that there is a difference in the rate of change that is related to race, but that doesn't change anything in relation to the overall point.

Do I really have to quote the abstract to you AGAIN?

WHY do you INSIST on focusing on race? Is it something you feel you need to really drive home? You have some issues there? HOW WOULD IT MATTER EITHER WAY???

The results still show what I pointed out.

I've quickly found my patience limit with your race-baiting. Please stop.

I've looked at all of the points that the authors of the study you selected chose to include in the results of their study. How can science and data from the authors you quote be racist? Why did they decide to include this variable in their study? Are they racist?

Yes, one of the findings was a correlation between gun ownership rate and gun homicide. We've already decided that you can't do anything about that.

Here are all of the results.

Variable	IRR (95% CI)​	P​	Interpretation​
Gun ownership	1.129 (1.061, 1.201)​	.001​	For each 1-SD increase in proportion of household gun ownership, firearm homicide rate increased by 12.9%
Percentage Black	1.828 (1.536, 2.176)​	.001​	For each 1-SD increase in proportion of black population, firearm homicide rate increased by 82.8%
Gini coefficient	1.129 (1.007, 1.266)​	.037​	For each 1-SD increase in Gini coefficient, firearm homicide rate increased by 12.9%
Violent crime rate	1.154 (1.031, 1.291)​	.013​	For each 1-SD increase in violent crime rate, firearm homicide rate increased by 15.4%
Nonviolent crime rate	1.100 (1.036, 1.168)​	.002​	For each 1-SD increase in nonviolent crime rate, firearm homicide rate increased by 10.0%
Incarceration rate	0.928 (0.868, 0.992)​	.027​	For each 1-SD increase in incarceration rate, firearm homicide rate decreased by 7.8%.

 

[Hafnium1979]

I've looked at all of the points that the authors of the study you selected chose to include in the results of their study. How can science and data from the authors you quote be racist? Why did they decide to include this variable in their study? Are they racist?

Yes, one of the findings was a correlation between gun ownership rate and gun homicide. We've already decided that you can't do anything about that.

Here are all of the results.

Variable	IRR (95% CI)​	P​	Interpretation​
Gun ownership	1.129 (1.061, 1.201)​	.001​	For each 1-SD increase in proportion of household gun ownership, firearm homicide rate increased by 12.9%
Percentage Black	1.828 (1.536, 2.176)​	.001​	For each 1-SD increase in proportion of black population, firearm homicide rate increased by 82.8%
Gini coefficient	1.129 (1.007, 1.266)​	.037​	For each 1-SD increase in Gini coefficient, firearm homicide rate increased by 12.9%
Violent crime rate	1.154 (1.031, 1.291)​	.013​	For each 1-SD increase in violent crime rate, firearm homicide rate increased by 15.4%
Nonviolent crime rate	1.100 (1.036, 1.168)​	.002​	For each 1-SD increase in nonviolent crime rate, firearm homicide rate increased by 10.0%
Incarceration rate	0.928 (0.868, 0.992)​	.027​	For each 1-SD increase in incarceration rate, firearm homicide rate decreased by 7.8%.

The scientists didn’t make it racist . Your focus on this point to the exclusion of the larger point did that. It’s your game . I get it. But it’s sickening that that is all you got from the article

 

[Rucker61]

The scientists didn’t make it racist . Your focus on this point to the exclusion of the larger point did that. It’s your game . I get it. But it’s sickening that that is all you got from the article

Variable	IRR (95% CI)	P	Interpretation
Gun ownership	1.129 (1.061, 1.201)	.001	For each 1-SD increase in proportion of household gun ownership, firearm homicide rate increased by 12.9%
Percentage Black	1.828 (1.536, 2.176)	.001	For each 1-SD increase in proportion of black population, firearm homicide rate increased by 82.8%

Larger point?

 

[Hafnium1979]

Variable	IRR (95% CI)	P	Interpretation
Gun ownership	1.129 (1.061, 1.201)	.001	For each 1-SD increase in proportion of household gun ownership, firearm homicide rate increased by 12.9%
Percentage Black	1.828 (1.536, 2.176)	.001	For each 1-SD increase in proportion of black population, firearm homicide rate increased by 82.8%

Larger point?

Yeah the larger point that overall increased gun ownership rates are a good predictor of gun homicide rates.

That's the overall point. See those p-values? Yup, both significant. BOTH SIGNIFICANT.

The fact that YOU parsed through it all and somehow decided the IMPORTANT bit was related to RACE is YOUR issue, not mine.

 

[Rucker61]

Yeah the larger point that overall increased gun ownership rates are a good predictor of gun homicide rates.

That's the overall point. See those p-values? Yup, both significant. BOTH SIGNIFICANT.

The fact that YOU parsed through it all and somehow decided the IMPORTANT bit was related to RACE is YOUR issue, not mine.

How is gun ownership the "larger" point given that an increase of one SD in that rate results in just 16% of the increase from a single SD increase in the proportion of Black population. When did 12.9%>82.8% become a true statement?

You really can't do anything about the gun ownership rate, so it's moot.

 

[soylentgreen]

This wont be changing from here on out, I've proven you're wrong on harping about gun storage. You dont get to use the 'manual' like a Bible and then deny my argument when I do.

There are instructions for use. I follow those rules because my self-defense and home protection firearms are always in use.​

​

And what should be completely clear to you by now is that these are not 'stored' weapons in any way. You are 100% wrong when you want to pretend that they are.​

​

Read it again. It's not going to change and you cant 'make' it false with your switch to another pathetic attempt at a personal attack. I just ended your BS claim about the safety of my firearms.​

​

Instructions for use relate to a gun ready for use...not storage. A stored gun doesnt help keep me safe ​

​

Why keep my gun a way that it's not 'safe' for me? Not ready for its purpose? You failed. Completely.​

No you have not proved anything. about gun storage all you have done is try some semantic trickery. You do not get to make false accusations. I have not argued that the safety rules must be followed religiously. time and again I have stated if you wish to ignore safety rules that is your problem just do not try and pretend you are being safe with a gun when you do.

Right!! you carry a gun in your hand 24/7 . Pull the other one it has bells.

If you leave your gun unattended and loaded you are ignoring safety rules, Your excuse is it is not stored just resting comfortably wherever you left it.

I have made no personal attack you as usual fail to actually point out where what that alleged insult is.

What instructions. let us see the link on gun safety that backs you.

When you can actually give a link that supports your claim that you need it then I will have failed. But you will not because you cannot.

 

[TurtleDude]

if someone lives alone and leaves their home locked with an alarm on it, but their gun is "unattended" can someone explain why that is UNSAFE?

 

[Goshin]

I can't speak for anyone else, just me and mine. Our home is safer for being armed.

We live in a high crime county, despite much of it being rural. Meth heads being a big problem. We've had issues, and occasions where we were quite glad we were armed.

My family has a tradition of training with firearms from an early age, and practicing gun safety with great care. None of us are addicts, criminals or suicidal.

We're definitely safer.

Now as for YOUR household, I can't say... that's your decision to make. I just ask for the same courtesy in return.

 

[Individual]

The problem with statistics like that is that they are not fine grained enough. Sure the risk to a person who goes out buys a gun and keeps it loaded and unsecured in a house overrun with children probably has a high risk of an accident.

The problem with your statistic is that that isn’t everyone.

Who was it that coined the phrase "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics."?

I've owned guns for 73 years, and in civilian life not once have I shot another person, intentionally or by accident, though several times I have had to employ a gun to defend myself from another person who should have been thankful they presented a knife rather than a gun, which would have resulted in my pulling the trigger.

 

[Lursa]

No you have not proved anything. about gun storage all you have done is try some semantic trickery. You do not get to make false accusations. I have not argued that the safety rules must be followed religiously. time and again I have stated if you wish to ignore safety rules that is your problem just do not try and pretend you are being safe with a gun when you do.

Right!! you carry a gun in your hand 24/7 . Pull the other one it has bells.

If you leave your gun unattended and loaded you are ignoring safety rules, Your excuse is it is not stored just resting comfortably wherever you left it.

I have made no personal attack you as usual fail to actually point out where what that alleged insult is.

What instructions. let us see the link on gun safety that backs you.

When you can actually give a link that supports your claim that you need it then I will have failed. But you will not because you cannot.

TL;dr

This wont be changing from here on out, I've proven you're wrong on harping about gun storage. You dont get to use the 'manual' like a Bible and then deny my argument when I do.

​

There are instructions for use. I follow those rules because my self-defense and home protection firearms are always in use.​

​

And what should be completely clear to you by now is that these are not 'stored' weapons in any way. You are 100% wrong when you want to pretend that they are.​

​

Read it again. It's not going to change and you cant 'make' it false with your switch to another pathetic attempt at a personal attack. I just ended your BS claim about the safety of my firearms.​

​

Instructions for use relate to a gun ready for use...not storage. A stored gun doesnt help keep me safe ​

​

Why keep my gun a way that it's not 'safe' for me? Not ready for its purpose? You failed. Completely.​

 

[soylentgreen]

TL;dr

This wont be changing from here on out, I've proven you're wrong on harping about gun storage. You dont get to use the 'manual' like a Bible and then deny my argument when I do.

​

There are instructions for use. I follow those rules because my self-defense and home protection firearms are always in use.​

​

And what should be completely clear to you by now is that these are not 'stored' weapons in any way. You are 100% wrong when you want to pretend that they are.​

​

Read it again. It's not going to change and you cant 'make' it false with your switch to another pathetic attempt at a personal attack. I just ended your BS claim about the safety of my firearms.​

​

Instructions for use relate to a gun ready for use...not storage. A stored gun doesnt help keep me safe ​

​

Why keep my gun a way that it's not 'safe' for me? Not ready for its purpose? You failed. Completely.​

No not wrong .When this particular argument started the subject was about storage and only morphed into leaving a gun unattended and loaded when you came in.

Where are these instructions? If they actually existed you would have posted them by now. And no, failing to follow safety rules means exactly that, you have failed to be safe.

True, with you we are arguing someone who simply leaves a loaded gun unattended.

And again a claim of personal attack without one shred of evidence that an attack happened. Care to quote what the attack was, answer no, because there was none.

A gun left unattended and loaded is not safe. There are no safety rules that will back you on this.

You have yet to give any evidence that it is safe. Certainly no book on safety will back you. To make your argument even more ridiculous you cannot even show a link what you are doing is necessary to be safe.

Lursa, the only argument you really have is that you need this to feel safe. It is not logical, there are no good reasons for doing so. But in the end it makes you feel safe.

 

[Rucker61]

A gun left unattended and loaded is not safe.

What makes this unsafe?

 

[soylentgreen]

What makes this unsafe?

All loaded guns should be treated as if they are unsafe. Would you pick up a random gun you have never seen and just point it at someone?

2. FIREARMS SHOULD BE UNLOADED WHEN NOT ACTUALLY IN USE​

Firearms should be loaded only when you are in the field or on the target range or shooting area, ready to shoot. When not in use, firearms and ammunition should be secured in a safe place, separate from each other. It is your responsibility to prevent children and unauthorized adults from gaining access to firearms or ammunition.

Unload your gun as soon as you are finished. A loaded gun has no place in or near a car, truck or building. Unload your gun immediately when you have finished shooting, well before you bring it into a car, camp or home.

Whenever you handle a firearm or hand it to someone, always open the action immediately, and visually check the chamber, receiver and magazine to be certain they do not contain any ammunition. Always keep actions open when not in use. Never assume a gun is unloaded — check for yourself! This is considered a mark of an experienced gun handler!

Never cross a fence, climb a tree or perform any awkward action with a loaded gun. While in the field, there will be times when common sense and the basic rules of firearms safety will require you to unload your gun for maximum safety. Never pull or push a loaded firearm toward yourself or another person. There is never any excuse to carry a loaded gun in a scabbard, a holster not being worn or a gun case. When in doubt, unload your gun!

 

[Lursa]

No not wrong .When this particular argument started the subject was about storage and only morphed into leaving a gun unattended and loaded when you came in.

Where are these instructions? If they actually existed you would have posted them by now. And no, failing to follow safety rules means exactly that, you have failed to be safe.

True, with you we are arguing someone who simply leaves a loaded gun unattended.

And again a claim of personal attack without one shred of evidence that an attack happened. Care to quote what the attack was, answer no, because there was none.

A gun left unattended and loaded is not safe. There are no safety rules that will back you on this.

You have yet to give any evidence that it is safe. Certainly no book on safety will back you. To make your argument even more ridiculous you cannot even show a link what you are doing is necessary to be safe.

Lursa, the only argument you really have is that you need this to feel safe. It is not logical, there are no good reasons for doing so. But in the end it makes you feel safe.

TL;dr after 1st sentence

This wont be changing from here on out, I've proven you're wrong on harping about gun storage. You dont get to use the 'manual' like a Bible and then deny my argument when I do.

There are instructions for use. I follow those rules because my self-defense and home protection firearms are always in use.​

​

And what should be completely clear to you by now is that these are not 'stored' weapons in any way. You are 100% wrong when you want to pretend that they are.​

​

Read it again. It's not going to change and you cant 'make' it false with your switch to another pathetic attempt at a personal attack. I just ended your BS claim about the safety of my firearms.​

​

Instructions for use relate to a gun ready for use...not storage. A stored gun doesnt help keep me safe ​

​

Why keep my gun a way that it's not 'safe' for me? Not ready for its purpose? You failed. Completely.​

 

[Lursa]

What makes this unsafe?

Heh, he didnt actually answer it (again.) I looked ahead. He's using a specific and limited and non-contextual section of a manual.

And it doesnt answer your question.

Who is it unsafe for? If not the owner and his/her specific circumstances, once again...his Biblical devotion to a section in a manual fails. (And no one else's use of gun manual content matters.)

 

[soylentgreen]

TL;dr after 1st sentence

This wont be changing from here on out, I've proven you're wrong on harping about gun storage. You dont get to use the 'manual' like a Bible and then deny my argument when I do.

There are instructions for use. I follow those rules because my self-defense and home protection firearms are always in use.​

​

And what should be completely clear to you by now is that these are not 'stored' weapons in any way. You are 100% wrong when you want to pretend that they are.​

​

Read it again. It's not going to change and you cant 'make' it false with your switch to another pathetic attempt at a personal attack. I just ended your BS claim about the safety of my firearms.​

​

Instructions for use relate to a gun ready for use...not storage. A stored gun doesnt help keep me safe ​

​

Why keep my gun a way that it's not 'safe' for me? Not ready for its purpose? You failed. Completely.​

If you cannot be bothered reading it then how is it you can bothered answering what you do not read. Or is it just your way of saying that ignorance is bliss..

Repetition is not validation. Your wrong, in many ways it is like the bible, meaning many americans have not bothered to read it because that would get in the way of their imagining it will fit what ever neurosis they have.

Really!! You just copied and pasted your previous post. Please do not waste my time with this kind of garbage again.

 

[soylentgreen]

Heh, he didnt actually answer it (again.) I looked ahead. He's using a specific and limited and non-contextual section of a manual.

And it doesnt answer your question.

Who is it unsafe for? If not the owner and his/her specific circumstances, once again...his Biblical devotion to a section in a manual fails. (And no one else's use of gun manual content matters.)

Bullshit if that was true then you would be able to point out where in the manual it backs you. Of course that is fail because it does not.
And yes it does answer his question. Always treat a loaded gun as dangerous. Except in america where stupidity with a gun is considered a right.

 

[Glitch]

No not wrong .When this particular argument started the subject was about storage and only morphed into leaving a gun unattended and loaded when you came in.

Where are these instructions? If they actually existed you would have posted them by now. And no, failing to follow safety rules means exactly that, you have failed to be safe.

True, with you we are arguing someone who simply leaves a loaded gun unattended.

And again a claim of personal attack without one shred of evidence that an attack happened. Care to quote what the attack was, answer no, because there was none.

A gun left unattended and loaded is not safe. There are no safety rules that will back you on this.

You have yet to give any evidence that it is safe. Certainly no book on safety will back you. To make your argument even more ridiculous you cannot even show a link what you are doing is necessary to be safe.

Lursa, the only argument you really have is that you need this to feel safe. It is not logical, there are no good reasons for doing so. But in the end it makes you feel safe.

A loaded firearm is safe, whether it is attended or not. The only thing that makes any firearm unsafe is the individual handling it.

I grew up with firearms in my closet. I did not keep the shotguns loaded because I did not want to maintain tension on the spring in the tube magazine. However, the pistols all had loaded magazines, just nothing in the chamber. The revolvers were also loaded, with 6 rounds if they were double-action, and 5 rounds if they were single-action.

In the 57 years I've owned firearms no human has ever been shot, either on purpose or accidentally. Which makes loaded firearms very safe indeed, if they are in the hands of someone educated in their use. They only become unsafe when in the hands of uneducated morons. You could say the exact same thing about chainsaws or other power tools.

 

[soylentgreen]

if someone lives alone and leaves their home locked with an alarm on it, but their gun is "unattended" can someone explain why that is UNSAFE?

I wonder if anyone can explain the meaning of the word accident to you as well.

 

[soylentgreen]

A loaded firearm is safe, whether it is attended or not. The only thing that makes any firearm unsafe is the individual handling it.

I grew up with firearms in my closet. I did not keep the shotguns loaded because I did not want to maintain tension on the spring in the tube magazine. However, the pistols all had loaded magazines, just nothing in the chamber. The revolvers were also loaded, with 6 rounds if they were double-action, and 5 rounds if they were single-action.

In the 57 years I've owned firearms no human has ever been shot, either on purpose or accidentally. Which makes loaded firearms very safe indeed, if they are in the hands of someone educated in their use. They only become unsafe when in the hands of uneducated morons.

In 57 years have you ever been raped? if the answer is no then by your reasoning rape also never happens.

 

[Lursa]

If you cannot be bothered reading it then how is it you can bothered answering what you do not read. Or is it just your way of saying that ignorance is bliss..

Repetition is not validation. Your wrong, in many ways it is like the bible, meaning many americans have not bothered to read it because that would get in the way of their imagining it will fit what ever neurosis they have.

Really!! You just copied and pasted your previous post. Please do not waste my time with this kind of garbage again.

TL;dr after 1st sentence

This wont be changing from here on out, I've proven you're wrong on harping about gun storage. You dont get to use the 'manual' like a Bible and then deny my argument when I do.

There are instructions for use. I follow those rules because my self-defense and home protection firearms are always in use.​

​

And what should be completely clear to you by now is that these are not 'stored' weapons in any way. You are 100% wrong when you want to pretend that they are.​

​

Read it again. It's not going to change and you cant 'make' it false with your switch to another pathetic attempt at a personal attack. I just ended your BS claim about the safety of my firearms.​

​

Instructions for use relate to a gun ready for use...not storage. A stored gun doesnt help keep me safe ​

​

Why keep my gun a way that it's not 'safe' for me? Not ready for its purpose? You failed. Completely.​

 

[Lursa]

Bullshit if that was true then you would be able to point out where in the manual it backs you. Of course that is fail because it does not.
And yes it does answer his question. Always treat a loaded gun as dangerous. Except in america where stupidity with a gun is considered a right.

TL;dr after 1st sentence

This wont be changing from here on out, I've proven you're wrong on harping about gun storage. You dont get to use the 'manual' like a Bible and then deny my argument when I do.

There are instructions for use. I follow those rules because my self-defense and home protection firearms are always in use.​

​

And what should be completely clear to you by now is that these are not 'stored' weapons in any way. You are 100% wrong when you want to pretend that they are.​

​

Read it again. It's not going to change and you cant 'make' it false with your switch to another pathetic attempt at a personal attack. I just ended your BS claim about the safety of my firearms.​

​

Instructions for use relate to a gun ready for use...not storage. A stored gun doesnt help keep me safe ​

​

Why keep my gun a way that it's not 'safe' for me? Not ready for its purpose? You failed. Completely.​

 

[Glitch]

In 57 years have you ever been raped? if the answer is no then by your reasoning rape also never happens.

That is your bizarre reasoning, not mine. My reasoning would be, since I have not been raped in the last 57 years, I am safe from being raped in the future. Which seems extremely likely.

 

[Glitch]

TL;dr after 1st sentence

This wont be changing from here on out, I've proven you're wrong on harping about gun storage. You dont get to use the 'manual' like a Bible and then deny my argument when I do.

There are instructions for use. I follow those rules because my self-defense and home protection firearms are always in use.​

​

And what should be completely clear to you by now is that these are not 'stored' weapons in any way. You are 100% wrong when you want to pretend that they are.​

​

Read it again. It's not going to change and you cant 'make' it false with your switch to another pathetic attempt at a personal attack. I just ended your BS claim about the safety of my firearms.​

​

Instructions for use relate to a gun ready for use...not storage. A stored gun doesnt help keep me safe ​

​

Why keep my gun a way that it's not 'safe' for me? Not ready for its purpose? You failed. Completely.​

I completely agree with you. However, not all firearms are kept commonly in use. I, for example, have "retired" the Winchester Model 1912 12-guage that my father gave me on my 10th birthday. It is still functional, but I no longer use it. I keep it on display in my gun case for sentimental reasons, and to piss off California who retroactively banned the firearm in 1989.

If a firearm owner is going to store their firearms long term, I seriously doubt they would do so while those firearms were still loaded. However, in the case of self-protection, or frequent firearm usage, then keeping loaded firearms makes perfect sense. I also keep loaded firearms in the house. In the hands of someone educated in their use, a loaded firearm is perfectly safe.