[W:2270] Does a Gun Make Your Home Safer?

[PzAbt505]

Not true at all. You live in fear if you actually believe you need a gun loaded and ready to kill 24/7.

How / why do you believe people do not need a firearm as a means to protect themselves?

 

[soylentgreen]

how is that unsafe unless you know there are untrained people who can access the weapon easily> you do not. thus your comment is moronic

The safety rule is quite clear. Not using that safety rule by definition of the word safety then you are therefor being unsafe. Any tool that has the potential to cause harm has safety rules around it. If you choose to ignore those rules then you are not practicing safe standards. If you choose to be stupid with a gun that is your problem just be honest enough to admit that you are being stupid with a gun rather than safe with a gun.

 

[soylentgreen]

How / why do you believe people do not need a firearm as a means to protect themselves?

Sigh! It would seem that rather than stick to the an issue they know they cannot win they instead try to pretend that this is about protecting oneself with a gun.

Apparently to make their argument that they do need protection they are more than willing to admit that america is no better than a some lawless third world shithole where it is necessary to have a gun loaded and ready to kill nearby 24/7.

Do you share their assessment, in which case why are you asking?

 

[Hafnium1979]

the larger point is that gun banning is almost exclusively a desire of leftwingers and crime control really doesn't have any real part of what motivates this desire to ban things.

Given that the data indicates otherwise you cannot make that claim. Sorry, that's how it all works.

Your stupid post of calling people "gun fetishists"

And "Bannerhoid" isn't hate? Interesting hypocrisy.

You don't hate violent criminals-you hate people who don't vote for the politicians you worship

See? You are now making unhinged, emotionally driven made-up crap. Good job!

 

[PzAbt505]

Sigh! It would seem that rather than stick to the an issue they know they cannot win they instead try to pretend that this is about protecting oneself with a gun.

I don't see an answer to my question.
How / why do you believe people do not need a firearm as a means to protect themselves?

 

[Lursa]

Odd that you completely missed the part that said " When not in use"
Seems more like you are desperate to stretch a point.

'Instructions for use' are about 'use' ...and safety. I follow those rules because my self-defense and home protection firearms are always in use.

When are you going to get it? These are not 'stored' weapons in any way imagined. You are 100% wrong when you want to pretend that they are.

 

[soylentgreen]

I don't see an answer to my question.
How / why do you believe people do not need a firearm as a means to protect themselves?

You do not see an answer to that because I have not been arguing that people do not need firearms to protect themselves.

Would it not be better for you to ask the others why the use the excuse that they need protection to the point that they are willing to be stupid with a gun.

 

[PzAbt505]

You do not see an answer to that because I have not been arguing that people do not need firearms to protect themselves.

Interesting
You said:
"You live in fear if you actually believe you need a gun loaded and ready to kill 24/7."
Unless you believe people do not need a gun as a means to protect themselves, why would you question if someone 'actually believes' they need one?
Why would you assign that belief to "fear"?

 

[soylentgreen]

'Instructions for use' are about 'use' ...and safety. I follow those rules because my self-defense and home protection firearms are always in use.

When are you going to get it? These are not 'stored' weapons in any way imagined. You are 100% wrong when you want to pretend that they are.

There are no instructions for leaving a gun unattended and loaded. Again you give evidence that you have never read a safety book.

You have yet to justify that you need that the level of defense that justifies your stupidity with a gun.

True that you are not storing a gun. You're just leaving laying about, loaded and unattended. So in other words you're now reduced to semantics over the word stored to make your argument.

 

[soylentgreen]

Interesting
You said:
"You live in fear if you actually believe you need a gun loaded and ready to kill 24/7."
Unless you believe people do not need a gun as a means to protect themselves, why would you question if someone 'actually believes' they need one?
Why would you assign that belief to "fear"?

Can you demonstrate that crime is so rampant in america that you need a gun at all times ready, loaded and be prepared to kill with it.
My question is not do they need it because it is quite obvious they do not.
What they do have instead is a pro gun lobby group that spreads fear of not having a gun loaded and ready to kill at a moments notice.

All of which is incidental. If they wish to live in fear of crime and laughably call it freedom then that is their problem and of no concern to me. However if they then show up on this site and start making claims that they are being safe with a gun then I will dispute what is in fact a lie.

 

[Lursa]

There are no instructions for leaving a gun unattended and loaded. Again you give evidence that you have never read a safety book.\

Correct, however there are instructions for use. I follow those rules because my self-defense and home protection firearms are always in use.

And what should be completely clear to you by now is that these are not 'stored' weapons in any way imagined. You are 100% wrong when you want to pretend that they are.

Read it again. It's not going to change and you cant 'make' it false with your switch to another pathetic attempt at a personal attack. I just ended your BS claim about the safety of my firearms.

True that you are not storing a gun.

You got it! Instructions for use relate to a gun ready for use...not storage. A stored gun doesnt help keep me safe

Why keep my gun a way that it's not 'safe' for me? Not ready for its purpose? You failed. Completely.

Now you can go back to your attempts to call the US a shithole if you want. It's just bitterness and failure leaking out of you because of your silly, limited, desperate failed argument.

 

[PzAbt505]

Can you demonstrate that crime is so rampant in america that you need a gun at all times ready, loaded and be prepared to kill with it.
My question is not do they need it because it is quite obvious they do not.

Interesting.
Gun-related crime is not so bad that the law abiding need a firearm as a means to protect themselves.
How then is it so bad that we need more gun control laws?

 

[Lursa]

Are you justified. Can you provide a link to support that or should we just accept your word for it?

Of course, as long as there is violence and crime, it's justified.

(Cue the desperate 'shithole' comments )

By all means take precautions. But do not try and pretend that ignoring safety protocols is taking a precaution.

No it is not called being prudent. Being prudent needs an actual reason to be prudent. And you have failed to give even one. And again if you feel you have a need to be stupid with a gun then that is your problem. My point would be that you do not get to appear on this site and try to pretend your being safe when all you are actually doing is ignoring safety.

You have every right to be stupid with a gun . That really is the trouble that america has with guns though. The belief that stupidity with a gun is a right.

Of course it is unsafe. That should be just common sense of anyone who is around a gun. A loaded gun is never safe. Always behave as if a gun is loaded until you are absolutely sure it is not.

This wont be changing from here on out, I've proven you're wrong on harping about gun storage. You dont get to use the 'manual' like a Bible and then deny my argument when I do.

There are instructions for use. I follow those rules because my self-defense and home protection firearms are always in use.​

​

And what should be completely clear to you by now is that these are not 'stored' weapons in any way. You are 100% wrong when you want to pretend that they are.​

​

Read it again. It's not going to change and you cant 'make' it false with your switch to another pathetic attempt at a personal attack. I just ended your BS claim about the safety of my firearms.​

​

Instructions for use relate to a gun ready for use...not storage. A stored gun doesnt help keep me safe ​

​

Why keep my gun a way that it's not 'safe' for me? Not ready for its purpose? You failed. Completely.​

 

[Rucker61]

C'mon, I'm not an idiot. YOU and I both know what you are doing here. It doesn't matter to me what the demographics were, the FINAL ANALYSIS showed a strong correlation (regardless of race) between increased gun ownership and increased gun homicide rates.

THE ONLY REASON you are bringing this up is to taint it with some sub rosa RACISM angle in hopes of shutting up the librul.

Why are you ignoring the other science and data? You brought the study to us. Don't you want effective solutions?

It LITERALLY DOES NOT MATTER to the study whether you are looking at white or black, the results are the same:

Gun ownership was a significant predictor of firearm homicide rates (incidence rate ratio = 1.009; 95% confidence interval = 1.004, 1.014).

Oh I'm more than happy to talk about poverty and improved social safety net. But I've met few of you gun enthusiasts who would vote to FIX those problems. No, I rather assume this is as usual a disingenuous side-note for you. A means of avoiding the real issue by bringing up an issue you normally don't give a flying f**** about. (You know, like "mental health care" which you don't normally actually care about at all, except when guns are involved and you need a patsy to take the attention away from the tools)

Sorry, not buyin' it today either.

We know - reduce gun homicides by reducing gun ownership rates.

We both know this isn't going to happen. Maybe we should look at other causes and solutions.

Figured out the flaws in Cook's FS/S yet?

 

[Lursa]

Interesting.
Gun-related crime is not so bad that the law abiding need a firearm as a means to protect themselves.
How then is it so bad that we need more gun control laws?

He denies that such incidents happen, even in good neighborhoods, and then he switches to we live in a shithole.

Makes no sense, it's either one or the other. And in BOTH cases, the choice to keep firearms for self-defense and protection are justified. In a high end apt in Seattle, a firearm, unfired, saved a family from a ax-wielding nut. Gee, thank God they dont need to listen to loony anti-gun people. The anti-gun people that wont pay their consequences. Hypocritical, easy when it's not your family.

Would ANYONE expect that to happen? Of course not. But hey...being prepared saved them.

 

[soylentgreen]

Correct, however there are instructions for use. I follow those rules because my self-defense and home protection firearms are always in use.

And what should be completely clear to you by now is that these are not 'stored' weapons in any way imagined. You are 100% wrong when you want to pretend that they are.

Read it again. It's not going to change and you cant 'make' it false with your switch to another pathetic attempt at a personal attack. I just ended your BS claim about the safety of my firearms.


You got it! Instructions for use relate to a gun ready for use...not storage. A stored gun doesnt help keep me safe

Why keep my gun a way that it's not 'safe' for me? Not ready for its purpose? You failed. Completely.

Now you can go back to your attempts to call the US a shithole if you want. It's just bitterness and failure leaking out of you because of your silly, limited, desperate failed argument.

No, you do not follow the rules. Nor can you show me the rule about leaving a gun unattended while still loaded.

Yes, I have already pointed out that you are down to desperately trying semantics over the word stored.

I have made no personal attack and like your inability to actually give a link that backs your stupidity with a gun you cannot show where I have insulted.

You do not need a gun to keep you safe. If you did you would be able to provide the evidence that you live in a lawless shithole.

There is no "safe for me. " There are only safety rules and people like you who are arrogant enough to think they do apply to you.

 

[soylentgreen]

Interesting.
Gun-related crime is not so bad that the law abiding need a firearm as a means to protect themselves.
How then is it so bad that we need more gun control laws?

Again if you wish to make an argument about gun related crime then do so. My question would be what does that have to do with someone ignoring safety protocol and being stupid with a gun.

Depends on the gun control laws. Passing a law will not stop people being stupid with a gun. Pointing out how pathetically bad the pro gun arguments are just might convince a few to stop being stupid with a gun.

 

[Rucker61]

No, you do not follow the rules. Nor can you show me the rule about leaving a gun unattended while still loaded.

Yes, I have already pointed out that you are down to desperately trying semantics over the word stored.

Laws are semantic.

I have made no personal attack and like your inability to actually give a link that backs your stupidity with a gun you cannot show where I have insulted.

I bet I can.

You do not need a gun to keep you safe. If you did you would be able to provide the evidence that you live in a lawless shithole.

Some people have used a gun to keep them and their loved ones safe. Are you able to read the future that well?

Doesn't the US have the highest homicide rate in the developed world?

There is no "safe for me. " There are only safety rules and people like you who are arrogant enough to think they do apply to you.

So if a person living alone on a sheep station 100 kilometers from his nearest neighbor leaves a loaded gun on the kitchen table while he visits the loo, that's not safe for him?

 

[soylentgreen]

Of course, as long as there is violence and crime, it's justified.

(Cue the desperate 'shithole' comments )


This wont be changing from here on out, I've proven you're wrong on harping about gun storage. You dont get to use the 'manual' like a Bible and then deny my argument when I do.

There are instructions for use. I follow those rules because my self-defense and home protection firearms are always in use.​

​

And what should be completely clear to you by now is that these are not 'stored' weapons in any way. You are 100% wrong when you want to pretend that they are.​

​

Read it again. It's not going to change and you cant 'make' it false with your switch to another pathetic attempt at a personal attack. I just ended your BS claim about the safety of my firearms.​

​

Instructions for use relate to a gun ready for use...not storage. A stored gun doesnt help keep me safe ​

​

Why keep my gun a way that it's not 'safe' for me? Not ready for its purpose? You failed. Completely.​

I will stop with the shithole comments when you stop using it as an excuse to be stupid with a gun.

You have not proven a thing. All you ha ve done is the fallacy of special pleading.

Give me the links that prove you live in a shit hole. Give me the link that states it is safe to leave a gun unattended and loaded. Then you have proof. But until then all you have is special pleading.

Semantics again. You leave a gun unattended and loaded.

You have no purpose with that gun all you have is a belief in the propaganda of fear. And that is all that justifies your being stupid with a gun.

 

[Lursa]

No, you do not follow the rules. Nor can you show me the rule about leaving a gun unattended while still loaded.

Yes, I have already pointed out that you are down to desperately trying semantics over the word stored.

This wont be changing from here on out, I've proven you're wrong on harping about gun storage. You dont get to use the 'manual' like a Bible and then deny my argument when I do.

There are instructions for use. I follow those rules because my self-defense and home protection firearms are always in use.​

​

And what should be completely clear to you by now is that these are not 'stored' weapons in any way. You are 100% wrong when you want to pretend that they are.​

​

Read it again. It's not going to change and you cant 'make' it false with your switch to another pathetic attempt at a personal attack. I just ended your BS claim about the safety of my firearms.​

​

Instructions for use relate to a gun ready for use...not storage. A stored gun doesnt help keep me safe ​

​

Why keep my gun a way that it's not 'safe' for me? Not ready for its purpose? You failed. Completely.​

You do not need a gun to keep you safe. If you did you would be able to provide the evidence that you live in a lawless shithole.

See post 1015. You cant just go back and forth...I've posted the links...if you believe nice condos on golf courses and high end apts in Seattle are shitholes...I dont care. That kind of stupidity reflects on you, not me.

 

[Lursa]

I will stop with the shithole comments when you stop using it as an excuse to be stupid with a gun.

You have not proven a thing. All you ha ve done is the fallacy of special pleading.

Give me the links that prove you live in a shit hole. Give me the link that states it is safe to leave a gun unattended and loaded. Then you have proof. But until then all you have is special pleading.

Semantics again. You leave a gun unattended and loaded.

You have no purpose with that gun all you have is a belief in the propaganda of fear. And that is all that justifies your being stupid with a gun.

This wont be changing from here on out, I've proven you're wrong on harping about gun storage. You dont get to use the 'manual' like a Bible and then deny my argument when I do.

There are instructions for use. I follow those rules because my self-defense and home protection firearms are always in use.​

​

And what should be completely clear to you by now is that these are not 'stored' weapons in any way. You are 100% wrong when you want to pretend that they are.​

​

Read it again. It's not going to change and you cant 'make' it false with your switch to another pathetic attempt at a personal attack. I just ended your BS claim about the safety of my firearms.​

​

Instructions for use relate to a gun ready for use...not storage. A stored gun doesnt help keep me safe ​

​

Why keep my gun a way that it's not 'safe' for me? Not ready for its purpose? You failed. Completely.​

 

[soylentgreen]

Laws are semantic.


I bet I can.

Some people have used a gun to keep them and their loved ones safe. Are you able to read the future that well?

Doesn't the US have the highest homicide rate in the developed world?


So if a person living alone on a sheep station 100 kilometers from his nearest neighbor leaves a loaded gun on the kitchen table while he visits the loo, that's not safe for him?

No, laws are written to be interpreted there is a difference.
You can bet but so far you are loosing that bet.
Good for them. Still does not change the fact that leaving a gun unattended and loaded is not safe.

Does that mean that stupidity with a gun is justified?

Again have you actually ever read a manual on gun safety If so show me where your sheep farmer is practicing safe gun rules. He can leave the gun there and nothing may come of it. Still does not change the fact that it was an unsafe thing to do.

 

[Hafnium1979]

Why are you ignoring the other science and data? You brought the study to us. Don't you want effective solutions?

I am doing no such thing.

In fact while the finding you point out is in there it doesn't change the fact that the overall (regardless of race!!!!) showed the correlation between ownership and homicide rates

I'm really tired of you trying to make this a racist thing. While that may be your jam, it doesn't change the point WHATSOEVER.

 

[Rucker61]

I am doing no such thing.

In fact while the finding you point out is in there it doesn't change the fact that the overall (regardless of race!!!!) showed the correlation between ownership and homicide rates

I'm really tired of you trying to make this a racist thing. While that may be your jam, it doesn't change the point WHATSOEVER.

It's not my jam; the authors of the study that you brought to us list it second in their lists of causes of gun violence. They discovered that the science and data shows that a higher proportion of Black people in a population indicates a higher homicide rate. Shouldn't this lead us to press for more gentrification?

Why have you ignored the point I mentioned earlier that higher incarceration rates reduces the homicide rate? Shouldn't we be imprisoning more people?

If you remember, there was more than one point in the science and data. Why weren't they included in the title, especially the relationship with much higher impact on homicide rates?

 

[Hafnium1979]

It's not my jam; the authors of the study that you brought to us list it second in their lists of causes of gun violence. They discovered that the science and data shows that a higher proportion of Black people in a population indicates a higher homicide rate. Shouldn't this lead us to press for more gentrification?

Look, I know you really want to make this a race topic and I'm sorry but I'm more interested in the actual paper itself. Yes, I see that there is a difference in the rate of change that is related to race, but that doesn't change anything in relation to the overall point.

Do I really have to quote the abstract to you AGAIN?

WHY do you INSIST on focusing on race? Is it something you feel you need to really drive home? You have some issues there? HOW WOULD IT MATTER EITHER WAY???

The results still show what I pointed out.

I've quickly found my patience limit with your race-baiting. Please stop.