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Doctors in red states put in impossible position to care properly for their pregnant patients

joluoto

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This will end up like in Poland where women die because they need lifesaving abortion, but all doctors refuse fearing they end up in jail if they do an abortion.
 

Linuxcooldude

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Works for me. You know, you could just read the snippet he provided.

I'm having the same problem with the paywall. In many instances I actually like to read the whole article to find out the truth for myself.
 

BlueTex

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I'm having the same problem with the paywall. In many instances I actually like to read the whole article to find out the truth for myself.

LMAO... You don't believe the quote from the spokesperson for Houston Methodist?
 

Cardinal

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I'm having the same problem with the paywall. In many instances I actually like to read the whole article to find out the truth for myself.
It's strange. It seems that the paywall is only affecting right wing posters here. How does it know?
 

Linuxcooldude

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WTF? This thread is about DOCTORS in red states, not about the supreme court ruling... good lord Does the link work for you?

But the news article the OP linked certainly mentions it, making it fair game in this thread:
Texas’s exception permitting abortion in medical emergencies likely wouldn’t apply to a circumstance like Katilyn’s, where death isn’t imminent. After the Supreme Court’s impending abortion ruling, whether it repeals Roe v. Wade outright or stops just short of that, several states are expected to pass laws that allow abortion only to save a pregnant person’s life. Some 22 states are certain to ban abortion following a repeal of Roe, according to the Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive health think tank, and a further four are highly likely to follow, with exemptions granted in limited medical emergencies.

Another reason why I like to read the articles for myself rather than filtered through posts like yours.
 
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multivita-man

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Doctors in red states are complaining that abortion laws dealing with emergency situations that put a woman's life in harm's way are so vaguely written as to be unintelligible. Many states have only one sentence in making reference to a woman's life being danger such as

"...to prevent “death or substantial risk of death,” or “permanent impairment of a life-sustaining organ”; and Idaho permits abortion “to prevent the death of the pregnant woman.” On Thursday, Oklahoma legislators approved a bill that would ban nearly all abortions starting from fertilization, with an exception to save the life of the mother “in a medical emergency.”

Such language is meaningless to physicians when thousands of different situations, some life-threatening in the immediacy, some in the near-term and others further down the road. Physicians are terrified of innocently running afoul of such vague and meaningless phraseology and ending up losing their medical license and worse being prosecuted for murder.

“The emergency is preventing that now. But such a decision won’t be legally recognized in Texas", says Nichelle Haynes, a perinatal psychiatrist from the Reproductive Psychiatry Clinic of Austin.

Typical situation that could arise. Bear in mind there are literally thousands of such situations facing caregivers:

"A pharmacy recently refused to fill a prescription for methotrexate, which treats an ectopic pregnancy by stopping the growth of the fertilized egg.

The pregnancy would never have resulted in the birth of a child, but was a serious risk to the mother. The embryo had attached in the patient’s fallopian tube which, if left untreated, would rupture and cause extensive internal bleeding. Emergency surgery could save the woman’s life if she were able to get to an emergency room fast enough but, if not, she would die from the blood loss.

“We told [the pharmacist] it’s a life-of-the-mother situation,” said Crawford. But they believed their employer wouldn’t permit the prescription. “They felt they would get in trouble.”



This has been the danger with these abortion laws the entire time: even if you carve out exceptions, the risk of being indicted for the death of a baby is going to force an exodus from the obstetrics practice. Some of these ****ers are too dumb to realize it puts every mother (and their fetuses that they just can't stop obsessing over) at risk of permanent illness or death. It's literally going to take childbirth back to the 1920s for many women.
 

multivita-man

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It's strange. It seems that the paywall is only affecting right wing posters here. How does it know?

AI has an inherent liberal bias. Then again, so does HI.
 

BlueTex

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But the news article the OP linked certainly mentions it, making it fair game in this thread:



Another reason why I like to read the articles for myself rather than filtered through posts like yours.

Did Houston Methodist deny her inducement? Yes or No?
 

BlueTex

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Moving those goalposts rather quickly are you? Like I've said, paywall is an issue.

Did they deny her and inducement based on the Texas abortion laws?
 

Linuxcooldude

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Did they deny her and inducement based on the Texas abortion laws?

Now you are being downright rude. I'm on a tablet right now and have no ad blockers installed. I'm not sure if I can even install any on a tablet.
 
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Jack2aTee

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This has been the danger with these abortion laws the entire time: even if you carve out exceptions, the risk of being indicted for the death of a baby is going to force an exodus from the obstetrics practice. Some of these ****ers are too dumb to realize it puts every mother (and their fetuses that they just can't stop obsessing over) at risk of permanent illness or death. It's literally going to take childbirth back to the 1920s for many women.
That's what I say. I don't believe for a second this is all about sanctity of life. There is a hidden agenda here and I know that sounds conspiratorial but I refuse to believe that otherwise semi-intelligent politicians would be willing to sacrifice the life of a healthy 25 year old pregnant woman for a zygote consisting of a tiny spoonful of cells. Frankly the idea of these idiots in office caring so much about two cells merged together makes about as much sense to me as them caring about the man in the moon--which is where I wish they'd rocket themselves to so we could be rid of their stupidity.
 

multivita-man

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That's what I say. I don't believe for a second this is all about sanctity of life. There is a hidden agenda here and I know that sounds conspiratorial but I refuse to believe that otherwise semi-intelligent politicians would be willing to sacrifice the life of a healthy 25 year old pregnant woman for a zygote consisting of a tiny spoonful of cells. Frankly the idea of these idiots in office caring so much about two cells merged together makes about as much sense to me as them caring about the man in the moon--which is where I wish they'd rocket themselves to so we could be rid of their stupidity.

It's about power and control.

Remember how the Papacy colluded with various kings across the European continent to dominate the peasantry from about 500 to 1400, give or take a hundred years on either end? It's the same shit, different continent and time. They want people to be deaf, dumb, and blind so that they can take more wealth for themselves and when they finally have the political system they want, they'll kill anyone who gets in their way. And a lot of the people who are banging on the anti-abortion drum so loudly right now haven't figured out that unless they're part of that elite class, as far as the plutocrats are concerned, they're basically human toilet paper just like the rest of us.
 

Captain Adverse

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So you think a state should be able to deny someone an abortion, even when the chances of the mother dying are extremely high. In the article above a ten year old rape victim in Ohio was denied an abortion. Her chances of living through a pregnancy and giving birth, well I would not put money on it if I were you. Anyone under the age of 15 is 5 times more likely to die from pregnancy and I suspect someone as young as ten is basically doomed. So the life of a ten year old rape victim is not as important as a bunch of cells and the probability of the a living child is remote, and yet, a state can pass a law condemning her to probably death. And of course you agree with this!!!!!!!! And the lying members of SCOTUS just passed a probable death sentence on this girl/baby. This girl was lucky that she was able to go to another state to get the abortion, but if Ohio and other states pass laws making it illegal to leave the state for an abortion, even this would not have been available to this little girl. Yeah, glad you are so willing to stick up for the lying five on the court.

Your entire argument is a "straw man," i.e. rephrasing to a point I never made and then expecting me to argue for or against something I never argued in the first place.

Straw man denied. Moving on... :coffee:
 

Jack2aTee

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It's about power and control.

Remember how the Papacy colluded with various kings across the European continent to dominate the peasantry from about 500 to 1400, give or take a hundred years on either end? It's the same shit, different continent and time. They want people to be deaf, dumb, and blind so that they can take more wealth for themselves and when they finally have the political system they want, they'll kill anyone who gets in their way. And a lot of the people who are banging on the anti-abortion drum so loudly right now haven't figured out that unless they're part of that elite class, as far as the plutocrats are concerned, they're basically human toilet paper just like the rest of us.
You're absolutely right. The clerics no more cared about pagans going to hell for not having Jesus than they cared about a bad tooth being yanked with a pair of pliers. For them accepting Jesus was purely a matter of politics---pagans having to accept them as God's chosen representatives of Jesus on earth. Pagans who were forced to convert had to do exactly what the clerics told them to do. Back then clerics only cared about five things: position, power, privilege, sex and the $$$$$'s that bought all four. Saving souls meant less than nothing to them.
 

joluoto

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You're absolutely right. The clerics no more cared about pagans going to hell for not having Jesus than they cared about a bad tooth being yanked with a pair of pliers. For them accepting Jesus was purely a matter of politics---pagans having to accept them as God's chosen representatives of Jesus on earth. Pagans who were forced to convert had to do exactly what the clerics told them to do. Back then clerics only cared about five things: position, power, privilege, sex and the $$$$$'s that bought all four. Saving souls meant less than nothing to them.
Conversions was often (but not always) about churchmen reaching out to pagan elites and convincing them they could get more money and power by aligning with the church, as well as save all the souls of the people beneath them as a bonus, that would be automatically converted when their leaders converted.
 

multivita-man

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This will end up like in Poland where women die because they need lifesaving abortion, but all doctors refuse fearing they end up in jail if they do an abortion.

Worse, adding insult to injury, everyone will get investigated, and if prosecutors need a fall guy badly enough, they'll find one. In one scenario, prosecutors and police investigators put the heat on the husband and the doctors involved, all of whom are suspected of having done something to the fetuses and/or the bother.

In another scenario, hospitals and medical doctors get sued for not doing enough to save the life of the mother and the fetus. If you're an OBGYN doctor in some of these states, it's time to pick up the stakes and move your tent elsewhere.
 

tacomancer

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There is nothing in any states laws that would prevent a doctor from handling an abortion related emergency.
You should totally tell doctors that! It seems their expertise and hospital lawyers aren’t up to the competency of random forum guy with a snarky name.
 

LetsGoBrandon

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You should totally tell doctors that! It seems their expertise and hospital lawyers aren’t up to the competency of random forum guy with a snarky name.
Yo go ahead and handle that for me. Let's Go Brandon!
 
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