Populist? If anything, my opinions are anti-populist.
Go up to any average Joe and say the word "teacher". They'll give you a look that suggests you said "warm apple pie".
Really? I don't know anyone like that. :shrug:
I'm sorry but it wouldn't work for me.And fresh crap works better than either.
No. That's what you're apparently suggesting. What I'm suggesting is when you offer more pay to a profession like teaching you will see more higher qualified applicants that will apply to your area. Not saying that just anybody won't apply, but then that's where you check through the resumes and evaluate the proper person.Are you seriously saying that the a person who wants to be a teacher and is a good teacher will be created if the pay is increased?
Ask about quality of education, Add the word union to "teacher," and then you'll really get what average Joe thinks.
mak: I know some folks like that, but the vast majority of people--I've seen at least--go for better pay and benefits--especially if they're raising kids.I do think there is some inertia with employment. Persoanally I have always needed change, but I know many people who get comfortable in a job and never try to improve their lot in life.
mak: I know some folks like that, but the vast majority of people--I've seen at least--go for better pay and benefits--especially if they're raising kids.
I'm sorry but it wouldn't work for me.
No. That's what you're apparently suggesting. What I'm suggesting is when you offer more pay to a profession like teaching you will see more higher qualified applicants that will apply to your area. Not saying that just anybody won't apply, but then that's where you check through the resumes and evaluate the proper person.
I voted yes, but the question is a little simple for the nuance needed to explain. Obviously the calibre of educators that populate the top 50 Prep schools would command a higher salary than say someone who is a public school teacher in PoDunk, Nebraska. Now if the question is in the context that pay should be attached to performance of the student, than I must emphatically say NO!!!!
Should a person who has a generic degree in Education (BA) from a half way decent school make the same as person who has a specific, subject related degree, (e.g. History, Math, English) from another comparable mediocre school? No, I don't believe they should. You're education should be in direct relation to he specific subject you are teaching. This would limit elementary school teachers, whose task is to give a foundational perhaps, but not necessarily, there are other measures which can reveal the quality of an educators work that doesn't have to be connected to the success of the student.
This is all relevant only if we continue with the same pedagogical framework. I personally believe we need a great reformation regarding the way and means in which we educate our children. The pedagogy is the problem first and foremost and that i what needs to be addressed, not what a teacher should and should be making and certainly it shouldn't be predicated on the external circumstances that aren't in their complete control.
The teachers who should be paid the most are the ones who can actually make a difference in the inner city schools where the deck is stacked against them and against their students. There aren't many, but the few heroes who can actually teach kids who come from a background of welfare, drugs, and gangs should be well paid for their contributions to society. Of course, we can't afford to pay them what they're really worth, but then, we can' afford to pay fire fighters what it's worth to rescue people from burning buildings either.
The teachers who should be paid the most are the ones who can actually make a difference in the inner city schools where the deck is stacked against them and against their students. There aren't many, but the few heroes who can actually teach kids who come from a background of welfare, drugs, and gangs should be well paid for their contributions to society. Of course, we can't afford to pay them what they're really worth, but then, we can' afford to pay fire fighters what it's worth to rescue people from burning buildings either.
The teachers who should be paid the most are the ones who can actually make a difference in the inner city schools where the deck is stacked against them and against their students. There aren't many, but the few heroes who can actually teach kids who come from a background of welfare, drugs, and gangs should be well paid for their contributions to society. Of course, we can't afford to pay them what they're really worth, but then, we can' afford to pay fire fighters what it's worth to rescue people from burning buildings either.
I have that thought from time to time, then I see some youtube clip of one of those teachers who apparently thinks "axe" is now a replacement for "ask" and that Obama is god himself, and I change my mind. :mrgreen:
That said, the same goes for teachers in poor rural areas.
What's your definition of "worth"? Is there some economic basis for it, or are you just making a bunch of dreams and wishes?
But then that goes back to the child, his or her aptitude and drive, not simply a matter of a teacher's ability.
I'll give an example. 2 Students. 1 white, the other black. both poor. Both raised by a single mother and both having siblings. Both went to same sub par schools K-12. Same teachers for the most part, same classes. same cultural influences. Both caddied. 1 today is a truck driver(white) and the other a very prominent doctor(black).
(Affirmative Action had nothing to do with it, and I'm not knocking on truckers only making a true life comparison)
Did the teacher do this or did the student? Was it's the students drive for success, or the qualifications of the teachers?
I'm talking about human worth as well as economic. If a teacher can steer ten students away from welfare dependence and toward productive lives, how much does that save in economic terms? A teacher who does that year in and year out is producing far more than we can afford to pay them.
and that's not even factoring in the richer fuller lives that those students will lead.
Please explain how the student's aptitude for learning and/or his or her desire to learn has anything to do with and thereby should be considered the predicate for, compensation of the teacher?
So both of those students are gainfully employed and contributing to society? Neither one is dependent on welfare? They aren't in prison?
If a teacher can save some of the students born into such a nightmare, then he/she is contributing to society in the hundreds of thousands of dollars every year.
You trivialize the child that way. If he succeeds, it's 90% him and 10% the teacher.
Also, you think an extra 20K for all teachers offsets the slim chance that you'll get that one teacher out there who would've had the power to sculpt young lives but chose to be an architect instead?
Last I checked, you can't buy passion or desire. Even teachers will tell you that those of their ilk who do it for the money will almost assuredly burn out.
So both of those students are gainfully employed and contributing to society? Neither one is dependent on welfare? They aren't in prison?
If a teacher can save some of the students born into such a nightmare, then he/she is contributing to society in the hundreds of thousands of dollars every year.
When it comes to children of poverty, i think it is more than 10% the teacher, but even if that's so, that's 3 students out of the normal class of 30 every year. That's a lot of productive citizens who won't be collecting welfare or burning up the tax money sitting in prison.
But, you do have a point: They can't do it just for the money. It has to be a calling, something beyond just pay.
Which is not to say that they shouldn't be paid more than they are, as they are contributing far more than they are costing.
No, I'm not saying that 10% of children will get "touched". I'm saying that if the child succeeds, the teacher should get about 10% of the credit, whereas the child itself should get 90%.
Plus there's the assist factor. Perhaps the teacher only succeeded with this student because someone else in the community loosened the jar first.
there can be a measured curve for any group kids especially when the group remains constant (for the most part) for grades 1-12.
We understand people that don't want to be measured completely.
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