Do you think Terrorism could bring down the US Government? (1 Viewer)

[Topsez]

I don’t think that knocking down a few buildings can bring down the government but think if the economy is totally devastated the government just may fail… There could be anarchy in the streets.

How could this happen? Well, many ways… I think the best way to destroy the US economy is to destroy oil supply and more importantly vehicle fuel, heating fuel supplies…I come to this conclusion because I live in a hurricane zone and have seen the effect of no fuel or electricity takes in just a few days. Now imagine if all refineries were struck simultaneously along with pipelines from the Gulf to NJ and those from Alaska… This could be accomplished with less than 200 terrorists, a truckload of RPG’s and a couple truckloads of fertilizer and blasting caps.

Why would anarchy instantly occur? Hunger… people with guns will kill you for a can of Spam and the police don’t come to your aid because they can’t.

I messed up the poll.

It should have read Yes. No and explain...

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

No, it really couldn't, under any circumstances. If anything, terrorist attacks strengthen the government's control and "moral authority" over the populace.

Just look at the lengths to which our government is now allowed to go, and how relatively little outcry there is over it. That would be impossible without having had a massive terrorist attack.

 

[Tashah]

Moderator's Warning:

Poll added to this thread

 

[Kandahar]

No. Not unless there was a civilization-scale catastrophe, like a bioengineered superplague or nanoengineered gray goo. That will be a distinct possibility in a few decades.

But as for technology currently available in 2006, no, there is no way that terrorism could bring down the US government.

 

[Topsez]

No, it really couldn't, under any circumstances. If anything, terrorist attacks strengthen the government's control and "moral authority" over the populace.

I gave an example that would lead to total anarchy within seven days.... Total anarchy would result in the death of over 100 million people in that same period... We witnessed the ability of the Federal Government to overcome a hurricane and I challenge your stance that not under any circumstances could the government fail... Under my example food would end, for all practical purposes... followed by loss of electricity and communications... City populations would kill the majority of the population and then move towards the farms as no more food could be found. How can you say no way?

Yes, you are correct that if the Sears tower were knocked down the government would grow stronger but the question is "could terrorist create a failure of federal government". I say yes if you let it happen.

 

[dsanthony]

I gave an example that would lead to total anarchy within seven days.... Total anarchy would result in the death of over 100 million people in that same period... We witnessed the ability of the Federal Government to overcome a hurricane and I challenge your stance that not under any circumstances could the government fail... Under my example food would end, for all practical purposes... followed by loss of electricity and communications... City populations would kill the majority of the population and then move towards the farms as no more food could be found. How can you say no way?

Yes, you are correct that if the Sears tower were knocked down the government would grow stronger but the question is "could terrorist create a failure of federal government". I say yes if you let it happen.

No, the govt would not fall, even if chaos or anarchy reigned for a short time in many American cities. Even in NO, the looters and pillagers were only able to rule the streets for a few days.

No govt falls unless the people (or the army) turns against the govt. That will not happen in America. The chaos from a bird flu pandemic will be greater than any caused by terrorism, but the govt will not fall.

Terrorism will not winby overthrowing the govts of US or Europe. It will win when fear of terrorism dictates the actions and decisions of the people and govt of those countries. Which is already starting.

 

[Kandahar]

I don’t think that knocking down a few buildings can bring down the government but think if the economy is totally devastated the government just may fail… There could be anarchy in the streets.

How could this happen? Well, many ways… I think the best way to destroy the US economy is to destroy oil supply and more importantly vehicle fuel, heating fuel supplies…I come to this conclusion because I live in a hurricane zone and have seen the effect of no fuel or electricity takes in just a few days. Now imagine if all refineries were struck simultaneously along with pipelines from the Gulf to NJ and those from Alaska… This could be accomplished with less than 200 terrorists, a truckload of RPG’s and a couple truckloads of fertilizer and blasting caps.

Why would anarchy instantly occur? Hunger… people with guns will kill you for a can of Spam and the police don’t come to your aid because they can’t.

I messed up the poll.

It should have read Yes. No and explain...

Attacking all of America's refineries wouldn't create anarchy for a couple reasons. First of all, there are other refineries elsewhere in the world. Attacking American refineries might send the cost of gasoline surging, but it wouldn't cause a shortage in America, as it could easily be imported from elsewhere.

Second of all, shutting down the refineries would affect the supply several weeks hence, not immediately. The government would therefore have some time to prepare for this. Your scenario would not happen, because attacking the refineries doesn't destroy the gasoline already in the pumps and storage facilities.

Third of all, we have strategic emergency reserves for such a purpose.

Fourth of all, it is simply impossible that terrorists could launch simultaneous attacks on every American refinery and destroy 100% of their capability. You give them credit for way too much.

 

[Topsez]

Attacking all of America's refineries wouldn't create anarchy for a couple reasons. First of all, there are other refineries elsewhere in the world. Attacking American refineries might send the cost of gasoline surging, but it wouldn't cause a shortage in America, as it could easily be imported from elsewhere.

Second of all, shutting down the refineries would affect the supply several weeks hence, not immediately. The government would therefore have some time to prepare for this. Your scenario would not happen, because attacking the refineries doesn't destroy the gasoline already in the pumps and storage facilities.

Third of all, we have strategic emergency reserves for such a purpose.

Fourth of all, it is simply impossible that terrorists could launch simultaneous attacks on every American refinery and destroy 100% of their capability. You give them credit for way too much.

We had a gas truck drivers strike on the island where I live and there was a run on the gas stations and every station island wide was empty in six hours of learning of the strike... every supermarket was empty including the beets... The governor had to use the National Guard and police escort to deliver fuel... The strike only lasted three days before the governor acted.

In a normal hurricane supermarkets are empited leading up to a sure hit... after the hit of a hurricane truck drivers delivering food are scared of being hijacked...

If delivery of food failed to Chicago, or NYC even one day people would start dieing because of fear of not knowing when the next food will come. Disrupt the food for several major cities for a couple days and see more deaths than 9-11... let the lights go out and watch anarchy.

Oil is worthless if you can't turn it into gas or fuel for trains, planes and automobiles.

 

[talloulou]

I don’t think that knocking down a few buildings can bring down the government but think if the economy is totally devastated the government just may fail… There could be anarchy in the streets.

How could this happen? Well, many ways… I think the best way to destroy the US economy is to destroy oil supply and more importantly vehicle fuel, heating fuel supplies…I come to this conclusion because I live in a hurricane zone and have seen the effect of no fuel or electricity takes in just a few days. Now imagine if all refineries were struck simultaneously along with pipelines from the Gulf to NJ and those from Alaska… This could be accomplished with less than 200 terrorists, a truckload of RPG’s and a couple truckloads of fertilizer and blasting caps.

Why would anarchy instantly occur? Hunger… people with guns will kill you for a can of Spam and the police don’t come to your aid because they can’t.

I messed up the poll.

It should have read Yes. No and explain...

I agree that terrorism could bring down the government. Just imagine if the "terrorists" were aliens from outer space. I imagine our entire global earth could be brought to its knees and total chaos could ensue in under 48 hours.

 

[talloulou]

No, it really couldn't, under any circumstances. If anything, terrorist attacks strengthen the government's control and "moral authority" over the populace.

Just look at the lengths to which our government is now allowed to go, and how relatively little outcry there is over it. That would be impossible without having had a massive terrorist attack.

Any terrorist attack that rendered the government unable to respond or cut off any and all communications could easily lead to mass chaos. Imagine if you could wipe out electricity all together? And imagine if you didn't just cut the electricity for a short period but you damaged the electrical grid to the point that it would take a long period of time to get it up and going again. Imagine if all water became undrinkable? I don't think there are terrorists capable right at this moment of pulling off such catastrophes but that doesn't mean there never will be.

 

[jamesrage]

It should have read Yes. No and explain...

I do not think terrorism could bring down the government.As other posters have stated it would strengthen the government's control. Because rights and civil liberties are useless if you are dead or if terrorist are running amok inside our own country,which is why in past wars certian rights and liberties were restricted or temporarely suspended until the war was over.

 

[Kandahar]

I do not think terrorism could bring down the government.As other posters have stated it would strengthen the government's control. Because rights and civil liberties are useless if you are dead or if terrorist are running amok inside our own country,which is why in past wars certian rights and liberties were restricted or temporarely suspended until the war was over.

When I saw your name under most recent post, I wondered if you'd be shilling for some kind of anti-American police state. You're so predictable.

How will we know when this war is over, and how long are you willing to "temporarily" suspend the rule of law?

 

[talloulou]

How will we know when this war is over, and how long are you willing to "temporarily" suspend the rule of law?

I don't know but I think we are a far cry from the day when I'll allow a masked V to shave my head for my own good and have me delighting in the blowing up of government buildings.

 

[Billo_Really]

Our system of government does work. Even though currently we have fanatics in power, it should correct itself over time. The biggest problem facing our country is not terrorism, it's us. For a democracy to work, you have to have a well informed republic. We ain't got that when you look at all the people who watch Fox News and think they are actually informed. Just look in this very forum at all the lazy-minded posts from people who decide very important issues with their emotions. Never analyzing an issue from different perspectives. Never realizing their own prejudice and pre-dispositions. Never checking their conclusions to see if they are sound and pass the test. We are a fear-based society that is easy to manipulate by subliminal forces. Emotional maggots are easy to spot. It's the ones with those "soft skills" that are harder to pick out.

The trick is not lying to yourself. We all do it every day. Being a little more concious of it carry's over in to other areas, like politics.

In answer to the thread question, no. Rome fell from within and we will too if we keep thinking were such a kick-a.s.s nation that can do no wrong. And identifying what we are doing wrong is not saying we do nothing right. It's not black or white. It's not either/or. There are more choices than that. The world has a lot of color to it. And anyone who pushes the notion that your either with us, or your against us, is mentally unfit to be making any statements at all.

 

[jamesrage]

When I saw your name under most recent post, I wondered if you'd be shilling for some kind of anti-American police state. You're so predictable.

I would not want things done any different than what was done in the Civil war,WWI and WWII.

 

[jamesrage]

Our system of government does work. Even though currently we have fanatics in power, it should correct itself over time. The biggest problem facing our country is not terrorism, it's us. For a democracy to work, you have to have a well informed republic. We ain't got that when you look at all the people who watch Fox News and think they are actually informed. Just look in this very forum at all the lazy-minded posts from people who decide very important issues with their emotions. Never analyzing an issue from different perspectives. Never realizing their own prejudice and pre-dispositions. Never checking their conclusions to see if they are sound and pass the test. We are a fear-based society that is easy to manipulate by subliminal forces. Emotional maggots are easy to spot. It's the ones with those "soft skills" that are harder to pick out.

The trick is not lying to yourself. We all do it every day. Being a little more concious of it carry's over in to other areas, like politics.

In answer to the thread question, no. Rome fell from within and we will too if we keep thinking were such a kick-a.s.s nation that can do no wrong. And identifying what we are doing wrong is not saying we do nothing right. It's not black or white. It's not either/or. There are more choices than that. The world has a lot of color to it. And anyone who pushes the notion that your either with us, or your against us, is mentally unfit to be making any statements at all.

So if we watch some liberal Bash America/spit on our troops television network will we then be informed like you are?

 

[Kandahar]

I would not want things done any different than what was done in the Civil war,WWI and WWII.

Those conflicts all had definitive ends, and were wars against concrete governments rather than an abstract concept. How will we know when the war on terror is over, and we can lift these "temporary" restrictions?

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Jamesrage:
So if we watch some liberal Bash America and spit on our troops television network will we then be informed like you are?

Watching someone spitting on a TV is information to you?

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Kandahar:
Those conflicts all had definitive ends, and were wars against concrete governments rather than an abstract concept. How will we know when it's D-day for the war on terror?

Or VE or VJ day.

 

[Kandahar]

Or VE or VJ day.

Ya that's what I meant, heh.

 

[jamesrage]

Those conflicts all had definitive ends, and were wars against concrete governments rather than an abstract concept. How will we know when the war on terror is over, and we can lift these "temporary" restrictions?

Do you honestly think that during those wars those people knew when the war would end?

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by jamesrage:
Do you honestly think that during those wars those people knew when the war would end?

Well they certainly had a good idea after hearing Hitler shot himself and we nuked Nagasaki. What would be the equivelant of that now?

 

[jamesrage]

Watching someone spitting on a TV is information to you?

Most of those things on there are not spin but what the mainstream media is not saying.The mainstream media didn't say **** when illegals in some town tore down the American flag and raised up the mexican flag,the mainstream media didn't say **** when there were pro-terrorist rallies in dearborn michigan and other places,the mainstread media didn't says **** when men dress in military uniform came through our border to assist drug dealers.

 

[Kandahar]

Do you honestly think that during those wars those people knew when the war would end?

They didn't know the dates that they would end, but they knew what victory would look like: The collapse of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

Is there some similar event that we can look for to mark the end of the war on terror?

 

[jamesrage]

Well they certainly had a good idea after hearing Hitler shot himself and we nuked Nagasaki.

Do you honestly think that in the middle of those wars those people were sitting around saying yep this war will end a few years two months and several days from now?

What would be the equivelant of that now?

Iraqis/Afgans having the balls to drag out every subhuman terrorist into the street and put a bullet thier heads?,Months with no terrorist attacks,Iraqi/Afgan troops taking over coalition forces duties,All or most of the above