Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end WW2?

[rudy0908]

Deegan writes
(Re: "Is Japan better off today?") I thought this a relevant question to ask, I never got a single response?

I already responded in my initial post in this thread. The benefits of dropping the bomb were:
1) It ended the war. (Despite all the statements re Japan's willingness to surrender, nobody has provided any evidence to support that.)
2) It turned Japan into a peaceful, productive democracy and eliminated it as a threat to its neighbors
3) It demonstrated the horrors of nuclear war so that nobody has used a weapon like that since.

So of course, Japan is better off. So is the rest of the world.

Exactly. Right on.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

Also, I'd like everyone to know that the Japanese were just as bad if not worse than the Nazis almost everywhere they went. The values of their society at the time saw surrender as a weakness, even for civilian elderly women and children. They killed tons of them cold-bloodedly, starved them, conducted tests on them, used people for bayonet practice and worse. They didn't have any respect for P.O.W.s either.

I'm not saying that this justifies it in any way, but the atrocitices they committed made a lot of people very angry, especially at the time. I also think those who feel it somehow would've been justifed against the Germans to exact revenge need to know that it was no different against Japan.

You've covered this subject extraordinarily well and I commend your grasp of history.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

I thought this a relevant question to ask, I never got a single response?

It's a good question and the answer is obvious. The Japanese are definitely better off as a nation. No doubt about it. The biggest problem they have to face to day is their declining population demographics.

 

[JOHNYJ]

The Rules of war were designed to make some behavior in war.Reasonable or equal.I treat your open cities this way you treat mine the same.Japan did not adhere to any rules ! You talk about civillians. Hiroshima's civillians were in a military target,in a country at war.The city of Nanking China had surrendered to Japan.It was a open city The japanese army marched in and murdered 350,000 men,women and children. Tortured some, used others for bayonet practice what they did to the women I won't mention.Its to bad we didn't have 3 A Bombs .

 

[dragonslayer]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

Look, it was terrible what the Japanese did in Nanking. That all took place in the 1930s and the bombs were detonated in 1945. It is time to stop this thread. The war is long over and it seems that I am beginning to hear some old time Japanese blasting here in these threads.

I still believe that it was totally justified to have used the Bomb in 1945. Read my posts. yet it is now 2005, and we have another set of problems to deal with (our psychopathic president) and we need to make sure that he does not create some artificial reason to use atomic weapons in North Korea or Iran. You all know that Bush is like child with his goal is quite child like he simply want to use his power for killing,,, tooo kill.

our old enemies are now our friends.

 

[Fantasea]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

Look, it was terrible what the Japanese did in Nanking. That all took place in the 1930s and the bombs were detonated in 1945. It is time to stop this thread. The war is long over and it seems that I am beginning to hear some old time Japanese blasting here in these threads.

I still believe that it was totally justified to have used the Bomb in 1945. Read my posts. yet it is now 2005, and we have another set of problems to deal with (our psychopathic president) and we need to make sure that he does not create some artificial reason to use atomic weapons in North Korea or Iran. You all know that Bush is like child with his goal is quite child like he simply want to use his power for killing,,, tooo kill.

our old enemies are now our friends.

The only sensible comment in your post is that it's time to stop this thread; at least as far as you're concerned.

From what you write, it appears that you'd be much happier if you started a "Hate Bush" thread in which to vent your spleen.

You could rant to your heart's content without annoying others.

 

[dragonslayer]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

The only sensible comment in your post is that it's time to stop this thread; at least as far as you're concerned.

From what you write, it appears that you'd be much happier if you started a "Hate Bush" thread in which to vent your spleen.

You could rant to your heart's content without annoying others.

I love it , I love it, I get a kick out of champagne, and causing another member of the antiAmerican fascist right to cry foul.

Bush's nose is now twenty miles long, he is a puppet for the corporatism and greed and has his strings pulled by those who don't give a darn about American every day. Each time the psychopath Bush, talks his nose grows. Soon Americans are gonna take their head from the sand and see Bush with his 20 mile long nose is trully full of Bushshit and antiAmerican right wing crap.
:2wave: :lol:

 

[Fantasea]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

I love it , I love it, I get a kick out of champagne, and causing another member of the antiAmerican fascist right to cry foul.

Bush's nose is now twenty miles long, he is a puppet for the corporatism and greed and has his strings pulled by those who don't give a darn about American every day. Each time the psychopath Bush, talks his nose grows. Soon Americans are gonna take their head from the sand and see Bush with his 20 mile long nose is trully full of Bushshit and antiAmerican right wing crap.
:2wave: :lol:

One of your problems is that you 'read funny'. No cry of foul. Simply agreeing with your offer to get lost. Since you add nothing but nonsense to the thread, It seemed like a good idea.

 

[Fantasea]

FYI The History Channel is running a program tonight at 8 EST on "X" Day, the projected invasion of the Japanese home islands.

That ought to provide some fodder for this thread, Don't you think?

 

[Missouri Mule]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

I just finished watching that program and it repeats tonight at 11 PM CDT to 1 PM. Set your DVR if you have one. Otherwise watch it live as it will be definitely worth your while. I am continually amazed at how much new archival footage that I have yet not seen about the Pacific War. Anyone who believes that the Japanese were on the verge of surrender prior to the dropping of the bombs knows nothing; understands nothing; will never understand anything. All that one needs to do is to listen to these dwindling numbers of WWII veterans who would almost certainly have died on the beaches of Japan in "Operation Olympic" scheduled for November 1, 1945 and "Operation Cornoet" scheduled for March 1, 1946.

Watching these programs brings tears to my eyes as I realize that most of these veterans will soon no longer be with us. They sacrificed and many died (nearly 300,000) so we could have this utterly silly debate over whether or not to have dropped the bombs. As I have said before, anyone who believes we should not have dropped those bombs, please present your orders to invade the Japanese home islands or keep your trap shut.

 

[dragonslayer]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

twas interesting, and gave a lot of insiights.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Missouri Mule writes

Watching these programs brings tears to my eyes as I realize that most of these veterans will soon no longer be with us.

Just last night, I heard (I think on Fox but am not sure) that we are now losing our remaining WWII vets at roughly 1000 a year and they will soon be gone. (Of all my many relatives who fought, only one is now left.) They truly were the greatest generation.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

Just last night, I heard (I think on Fox but am not sure) that we are now losing our remaining WWII vets at roughly 1000 a year and they will soon be gone. (Of all my many relatives who fought, only one is now left.) They truly were the greatest generation.

Actually, it's more like this. Government records show that fewer than 4 million World War II veterans are living, and that more than 1,100 are dying every day.

 

[rudy0908]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

Actually, it's more like this. Government records show that fewer than 4 million World War II veterans are living, and that more than 1,100 are dying every day.

I had the privelege of talking with a man at my work yesterday who was at Midway after the major battle there. He was in the Navy. Unfortunately I was pretty busy at the time so I couldn't ask him if he thought the bombs were justified or not, but I can pretty much guarantee his answer.

 

[AlbqOwl]

After thinking about it, Mule is almost certainly right that we are losing more than a thousand of our WWII vets every day now. That sure sounds like a lot though. But that is about 11 more years for the lot and most are in their 70's and 80's now.

 

[dragonslayer]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

One of your problems is that you 'read funny'. No cry of foul. Simply agreeing with your offer to get lost. Since you add nothing but nonsense to the thread, It seemed like a good idea.

Great goin Fantasea. I am pleased that you and I are able to communiicate. Now the problem is that,,, I am really not trying convert people from the Right to being human once more. The Main problem with the Right, is that they have lost their humanity. Frankly I feel that those on the right were subjected to some trauma in their youth, or they have been exposed to some brain tearing polutent in the food or water. They have no feeling for the lives of people or the death of people. They lie constantly, and they don't really care for the sick or the elderly unless they happen to be family.

Luckily there are us Democrats who follow the teachings of christ and are our sister's and brother's keepers

 

[cnredd]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

Great goin Fantasea. I am pleased that you and I are able to communiicate. Now the problem is that,,, I am really not trying convert people from the Right to being human once more. The Main problem with the Right, is that they have lost their humanity. Frankly I feel that those on the right were subjected to some trauma in their youth, or they have been exposed to some brain tearing polutent in the food or water. They have no feeling for the lives of people or the death of people. They lie constantly, and they don't really care for the sick or the elderly unless they happen to be family.

Luckily there are us Democrats who follow the teachings of christ and are our sister's and brother's keepers

Wow...They're actually putting hallucinagens into the Kool-Aid now...

 

[edb19]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

Great goin Fantasea. I am pleased that you and I are able to communiicate. Now the problem is that,,, I am really not trying convert people from the Right to being human once more. The Main problem with the Right, is that they have lost their humanity. Frankly I feel that those on the right were subjected to some trauma in their youth, or they have been exposed to some brain tearing polutent in the food or water. They have no feeling for the lives of people or the death of people. They lie constantly, and they don't really care for the sick or the elderly unless they happen to be family.

Luckily there are us Democrats who follow the teachings of christ and are our sister's and brother's keepers

Sorry - you are hanging out with poor examples of conservatives. The conservatives I know (and I know many) are all caring, giving people who continually offer assistance to those in need. They believe it is their responsibility to do so, not the responsibility of the government. Unlike many of the more liberal leaning folks I know - they treat everyone with respect. When I hear jokes at the expense of other people (i.e. gay, women or ethnic jokes) 99 times out of 100 - I hear them from a more liberal leaning person.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

Sorry - you are hanging out with poor examples of conservatives. The conservatives I know (and I know many) are all caring, giving people who continually offer assistance to those in need. They believe it is their responsibility to do so, not the responsibility of the government. Unlike many of the more liberal leaning folks I know - they treat everyone with respect. When I hear jokes at the expense of other people (i.e. gay, women or ethnic jokes) 99 times out of 100 - I hear them from a more liberal leaning person.

Guys, don't turn this into a Liberals are stupid vs. Conservatives are mean thread...

 

[Missouri Mule]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

Great goin Fantasea. I am pleased that you and I are able to communiicate. Now the problem is that,,, I am really not trying convert people from the Right to being human once more. The Main problem with the Right, is that they have lost their humanity. Frankly I feel that those on the right were subjected to some trauma in their youth, or they have been exposed to some brain tearing polutent in the food or water. They have no feeling for the lives of people or the death of people. They lie constantly, and they don't really care for the sick or the elderly unless they happen to be family.

Luckily there are us Democrats who follow the teachings of christ and are our sister's and brother's keepers

The problem with the left is that they are largely ignorant of history. How many people here know that the Japanese were well on their way to their own atomic bomb? And what do you know of it? There are documents and living members of Japan's nuclear scientists still living today that can confirm these facts. Actually they may even have set off a test explosion. One of the plans was to send one of their subs into San Francisco Bay and detonate the bomb. Does anyone know that their top subs actually were some four times larger than our subs? They could actually put an aircraft inside those big subs and certainly a much smaller atomic bomb. I suppose the left would feel better if hundreds of thousands of Americans had died instead. That's the dearth of their ignorance and left-wing ideology of bashing America at all times.

 

[Surenderer]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

The problem with the left is that they are largely ignorant of history. How many people here know that the Japanese were well on their way to their own atomic bomb? And what do you know of it? There are documents and living members of Japan's nuclear scientists still living today that can confirm these facts. Actually they may even have set off a test explosion. One of the plans was to send one of their subs into San Francisco Bay and detonate the bomb. Does anyone know that their top subs actually were some four times larger than our subs? They could actually put an aircraft inside those big subs and certainly a much smaller atomic bomb. I suppose the left would feel better if hundreds of thousands of Americans had died instead. That's the dearth of their ignorance and left-wing ideology of bashing America at all times.

And the problem with the right is that they often rewrite history......The fact is that The two cities were of limited military value. Civilians outnumbered troops in Hiroshima five or six to one. Also American refusal to modify its "unconditional surrender" demand to allow the Japanese to keep their emperor needlessly prolonged Japan's resistance.....which should be their right within their own culture..... Plus Japan was ready to call it quits anyway. More than 60 of its cities had been destroyed by conventional bombing, the home islands were being blockaded by the American Navy, and the Soviet Union entered the war by attacking Japanese troops in Manchuria.....Not to mention that In official internal military interviews, diaries and other private as well as public materials, literally every top U.S. military leader involved subsequently stated that the use of the bomb was not dictated by military necessity.

In his memoirs Admiral William D. Leahy, the President's Chief of Staff--and the top official who presided over meetings of both the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Combined U.S.-U.K. Chiefs of Staff--minced few words:

[T]he use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender. . . .

I]n being the first to use it, we . . . adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.


Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:


The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]


Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:

The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before.


The commanding general of the U.S. Army Air Forces, Henry H. "Hap" Arnold, gave a strong indication of his views in a public statement only eleven days after Hiroshima was attacked. Asked on August 17 by a New York Times reporter whether the atomic bomb caused Japan to surrender, Arnold said:



The Japanese position was hopeless even before the first atomic bomb fell, because the Japanese had lost control of their own air. (See p. 334, Chapter 27)


Arnold's deputy, Lieutenant General Ira C. Eaker, summed up his understanding this way in an internal military history interview:

Arnold's view was that it [the dropping of the atomic bomb] was unnecessary. He said that he knew the Japanese wanted peace. There were political implications in the decision and Arnold did not feel it was the military's job to question it.

read the rest here if ya want:


http://www.doug-long.com/guide1.htm



Not to mention also that the same PBS program that you guys were quoting also stated that the U.S. was overtly engaging in Naval warfare with the Germans which is another reason why Pearl Harbor was targetted...as I said......rewriting history :spin:........but hey screw peace kill them all before they kill you right?


peace

 

[Missouri Mule]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

And the problem with the right is that they often rewrite history......The fact is that The two cities were of limited military value. Civilians outnumbered troops in Hiroshima five or six to one. Also American refusal to modify its "unconditional surrender" demand to allow the Japanese to keep their emperor needlessly prolonged Japan's resistance.....which should be their right within their own culture..... Plus Japan was ready to call it quits anyway. More than 60 of its cities had been destroyed by conventional bombing, the home islands were being blockaded by the American Navy, and the Soviet Union entered the war by attacking Japanese troops in Manchuria.....Not to mention that In official internal military interviews, diaries and other private as well as public materials, literally every top U.S. military leader involved subsequently stated that the use of the bomb was not dictated by military necessity.

In his memoirs Admiral William D. Leahy, the President's Chief of Staff--and the top official who presided over meetings of both the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Combined U.S.-U.K. Chiefs of Staff--minced few words:

[T]he use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender. . . .

I]n being the first to use it, we . . . adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.


Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:


The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]


Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:

The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before.


The commanding general of the U.S. Army Air Forces, Henry H. "Hap" Arnold, gave a strong indication of his views in a public statement only eleven days after Hiroshima was attacked. Asked on August 17 by a New York Times reporter whether the atomic bomb caused Japan to surrender, Arnold said:



The Japanese position was hopeless even before the first atomic bomb fell, because the Japanese had lost control of their own air. (See p. 334, Chapter 27)


Arnold's deputy, Lieutenant General Ira C. Eaker, summed up his understanding this way in an internal military history interview:

Arnold's view was that it [the dropping of the atomic bomb] was unnecessary. He said that he knew the Japanese wanted peace. There were political implications in the decision and Arnold did not feel it was the military's job to question it.

read the rest here if ya want:


http://www.doug-long.com/guide1.htm

Not to mention also that the same PBS program that you guys were quoting also stated that the U.S. was overtly engaging in Naval warfare with the Germans which is another reason why Pearl Harbor was targetted...as I said......rewriting history :spin:........but hey screw peace kill them all before they kill you right?

peace

One thing that one can always count on regarding the left and American policy is that they will ignore history and take facts out of context to make their case.

Even after the bombs were dropped, planning continued for the upcoming operation "Operation Olympic" on November 1, 1945 and "Operation Coronet" scheduled for March 1, 1946. Funny how the left conveniently always leaves out these "small" details.

I'll ask you a simple question. Did you have orders to storm the beaches of Japan? Yes or No.
============================
"Also American refusal to modify its "unconditional surrender" demand to allow the Japanese to keep their emperor needlessly prolonged Japan's resistance.....which should be their right within their own culture..... Plus Japan was ready to call it quits anyway."

This is yet another example of "facts" are manipulated and totally distort the truth. Exactly as expected of left-wing mentality.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Generalizations undermine your image of intelligence Mr. Mule.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

Generalizations undermine your image of intelligence Mr. Mule.

I'm not generalizing. The left are emotionally and mentally incapable of seeing the truth even when it is laid out in front of them. They have an agenda. This Bash America agenda over the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is quite typical. And I'll ask you. Present your orders to invade Japan and I'll listen to your point of view. OK?

 

[Surenderer]

Re: Do you think it was the right decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end W

One thing that one can always count on regarding the left and American policy is that they will ignore history and take facts out of context to make their case.

Even after the bombs were dropped, planning continued for the upcoming operation "Operation Olympic" on November 1, 1945 and "Operation Coronet" scheduled for March 1, 1946. Funny how the left conveniently always leaves out these "small" details.

I'll ask you a simple question. Did you have orders to storm the beaches of Japan? Yes or No.
============================
"Also American refusal to modify its "unconditional surrender" demand to allow the Japanese to keep their emperor needlessly prolonged Japan's resistance.....which should be their right within their own culture..... Plus Japan was ready to call it quits anyway."

This is yet another example of "facts" are manipulated and totally distort the truth. Exactly as expected of left-wing mentality.

Relax bro I'm not left or right and I personally dislike both sides.....but History is History and of course no I didnt have orders to storm the beaches of Japan but I have shown you that the people who gave those orders who were there themselves believed that it was unnecessary to drop the A bombs on those two cities....dont hate on me hate on them.....or are you scared to call them unpatriotic also?