Do you support the TPP?

[Coldwine]

Isn't the TPP a Conservative thing?

Yes the President is for it. But isn't that only due to compromise with a Republican Congress?
I am having a hard time finding reliable info on who initially supported this thing. But the Liberals seem to have always been against it.

It seems to be a Republican Congress that initially supported this thing, and the only way Obama will pass it is with Republicans.

So my question is why are you not bashing those Conservatives?

The TPP is a trade agreement. It is negotiated outside of the US political arena by the USTR with input from citizen trade advisory committees (which include corporate lobbyists, now that the ban has been lifted), and then the legislature votes on it as-is (without amending it). It's not like a normal law where it starts in Congress and is supported by one of the parties.

 

[Surrealistik]

Exports draconian IP laws, including with respect to essentials like drugs/pharmaceuticals which promises to dramatically increase their prices, was negotiated in such secrecy that senior federal level politicians had no or limited access to the text while transnational CEOs and their lobbyists enjoyed unfettered involvement, legitimizes a regulatory race to the bottom in exchange for minimal environmental and work safety standards, lets corporations challenge the sovereignty of governments... what about this monstrosity is there to like unless you're looking to profiteer off of cheap labour in developing countries at the expense of developed ones, maximize leverage of your IPs at the expense of society, and defy laws for the sake of your profits?

 

[Helix]

Do you support the TPP?

i'll just go ahead and say no. these trade deals, though billed as economic wonders, usually just result in good jobs being shipped out and a whole bunch of lousier ones being brought in along with cheaper stuff. look at who wants it and who doesn't want it, and consider their motivations.

 

[Painter]

The TPP is a trade agreement. It is negotiated outside of the US political arena by the USTR with input from citizen trade advisory committees (which include corporate lobbyists, now that the ban has been lifted), and then the legislature votes on it as-is (without amending it). It's not like a normal law where it starts in Congress and is supported by one of the parties.

Thanks, some of that was informative.
However, I think the guts of my point remain intact.
The expectation for TPP to pass is still placed in the laps of Republicans as it is mostly Liberals that have so violently opposed it.

 

[clownboy]

Most smokey back-room deals are not advantageous to the masses.

This is the most transparent presidential administration ever! Wonder who could have said that about their administration? :mrgreen:

 

[Coldwine]

Thanks, some of that was informative.
However, I think the guts of my point remain intact.
The expectation for TPP to pass is still placed in the laps of Republicans as it is mostly Liberals that have so violently opposed it.

Trump opposes it very heavily. There are pro-TTP factions in both parties, mostly the establishment. The insurgencies in both parties had TPP opposition as a central tenet. Now Clinton is in a tough spot, as she formerly supported it, and is basically paying lip service to opposition because Bernie and Trump forced her hand.
Trump Just Drove a Truck Through Hole DNC Platform Panel Left in Clinton's TPP Promise | Common Dreams | Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community

 

[Painter]

Trump opposes it very heavily. There are pro-TTP factions in both parties, mostly the establishment. The insurgencies in both parties had TPP opposition as a central tenet. Now Clinton is in a tough spot, as she formerly supported it, and is basically paying lip service to opposition because Bernie and Trump forced her hand.
Trump Just Drove a Truck Through Hole DNC Platform Panel Left in Clinton's TPP Promise | Common Dreams | Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community

I doubt Trump knows anything about it aside from Obama being for it.
Clinton is for it. But she will oppose it in it's current form as a compromise with her own Party. She'll honor that compromise because it is much too dangerous not to.
Unless it gets passed before the next President takes office, it is quite dead.

 

[the_recruit]

I do. Broadly speaking I support free trade and oppose protectionist barriers. The economic benefits of free trade are unequivocal. It's a shame that the recent populist turn of this election has set its sights on free trade (thanks to a widespread lack in economic education). Though the grievances of the working class are valid, protectionism is not the answer.

 

[Northern Light]

The fact that it has been drafted and discussed in such secrecy makes me automatically reject it.

It's obvious that the neo-liberal globalists are at it again, in whatever undemocratic fashion suits them.

Anything that is good for them is usually bad for everyone else, based on prior experiences.

 

[WCH]

This is the most transparent presidential administration ever! Wonder who could have said that about their administration? :mrgreen:

The shadow government has no transparency. Obama is a patsy. 8)

 

[tres borrachos]

I chose "Other/Don't Know". I agree with it conceptually, but the shadowy nature in which it was crafted and taken up gives me pause, mostly because I've come to expect our lawmakers to not get anything right that starts out as a good idea.

 

[Reformedfindlay]

Of course most of the Globalist "**** America" crowd voted for it.

Can't handle global competition there big guy? Competition breeds winners and strong people, the weak suffer.

Unfortunately, it seems that the TPP goes beyond merely free trade which is all that it should have been.

 

[WCH]

Can't handle global competition there big guy? Competition breeds winners and strong people, the weak suffer.

Unfortunately, it seems that the TPP goes beyond merely free trade which is all that it should have been.

These deals put us [America] at a distinct disadvantage. I flat out believe there are those in the world who would like to see our demise....or at least cut way down to size.

 

[reinoe]

How many of you actually know WTF you are even talking about regarding the TPP?

How many of you have read the entire thing?

How many of you can even name all of the Countries involved? Or describe what the treaty actually does?

I bet the answer is not a damned one of you.

We live in a Country where one of the hottest political debates is over something neither side even knows WTF it is.
God, we're so smart.

Have you?

Have you?

Have you memorized it word for word?

I don't need to know ALL about it I just need to know that there's enough in it for me to hate it. You however think that a person has to know every page and every part of it to have a valid opinion on it and that's not how things work.

 

[reinoe]

I doubt Trump knows anything about it aside from Obama being for it.
Clinton is for it. But she will oppose it in it's current form as a compromise with her own Party. She'll honor that compromise because it is much too dangerous not to.
Unless it gets passed before the next President takes office, it is quite dead.

Ha ha, Hillary is only saying she opposes it. She'll sign it faster than a New York minute considering she helped write the damn thing.

 

[Painter]

Have you?

Have you?

Have you memorized it word for word?

I don't need to know ALL about it I just need to know that there's enough in it for me to hate it. You however think that a person has to know every page and every part of it to have a valid opinion on it and that's not how things work.

Did I ever suggest that I had?
Even when this thing was classified, everyone had an opinion. If that wasn't so damning of our culture, I'd find it funny.

 

[Painter]

Ha ha, Hillary is only saying she opposes it. She'll sign it faster than a New York minute considering she helped write the damn thing.

Do you base this accusation on anything real?
Most Democrats oppose this thing. If Obama can't get it done with Republicans, this is a dead issue.

 

[reinoe]

Did I ever suggest that I had?
Even when this thing was classified, everyone had an opinion. If that wasn't so damning of our culture, I'd find it funny.

You know what's damning? How it was written in secret and the details hidden from the public and then Congress tried to fast-track it through.

 

[The Vincer]

How many of you actually know WTF you are even talking about regarding the TPP?

How many of you have read the entire thing?

How many of you can even name all of the Countries involved? Or describe what the treaty actually does?

I bet the answer is not a damned one of you.

We live in a Country where one of the hottest political debates is over something neither side even knows WTF it is.
God, we're so smart.

Absolutely, one of the big problems is that this was discussed and created behind closed doors, and other than its existence, everything about it has been kept as secret as possible.

 

[Painter]

You know what's damning? How it was written in secret and the details hidden from the public and then Congress tried to fast-track it through.

I agree. But I also tend to think there is a legitimate reason for it other than because it is bad for the people.
Maybe I'm wrong. Doubt we'll ever know.

 

[Fishking]

Considering this is one of the few issues that really doesn't fall on political lines, I'm interested what DP thinks.

Obama's for it, and all but 5 Republican senators voted to fast track it. About a third of Democrat senators did as well. The vast majority of governors of both stripes support it, including Mike Pence.

On the other side, this is the one big issue that Trump and Sanders actually agree on. Clinton came out against it during the primary after some dithering. Most Democrats and a few Republican Senators are against it.

Here's the wiki article for it, for a brief overview of what it contains: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership

Hillary is for it. She flipped just to pander for votes, everyone knows this. If she were to gain office she'd work to push it through.