Do you support protectionism?

Masterhawk · Oct 13, 2019

Protectionism has existed in the past as a method of protecting a country's industries. This was very prominent as part of mercantilism which places emphasis on nations accumulating wealth.

Tariffs have played their role in American history; they used to be much higher than they are now. Until 1914, they were the federal government's main source of revenue.
https://www.princeton.edu/~pkrugman/tariff_history.png

Since the end of the Smoot Hawley tariff, tariffs in general have been in decline in the US. In 2017, the US had an average tariff rate of 1.66%. The EU was not much higher with 1.79%. Since the end of World War II, both parties have favored free trade. However, this has begun to change in the recent years with Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders having come out against job outsourcing. Back in the early 90s, independent candidate Ross Perot partly ran on opposition to NAFTA, referring to it as the giant sucking sound, whereas Bush and Clinton supported it. With Donald Trump in office, various tariffs have been enacted, most notably on solar panels and steel and aluminum.

All of this has led to a trade war between the US and China. In response to Trump's tariffs, China has enacted a tariff on soybeans which had a negative effect on soybean farmers. There are also concerns that the trade war will lead to a recession. If this happens, it will likely turn the American public against protectionism.

Mycroft · Oct 13, 2019

Masterhawk said:
Protectionism has existed in the past as a method of protecting a country's industries. This was very prominent as part of mercantilism which places emphasis on nations accumulating wealth.

Tariffs have played their role in American history; they used to be much higher than they are now. Until 1914, they were the federal government's main source of revenue.
https://www.princeton.edu/~pkrugman/tariff_history.png

Since the end of the Smoot Hawley tariff, tariffs in general have been in decline in the US. In 2017, the US had an average tariff rate of 1.66%. The EU was not much higher with 1.79%. Since the end of World War II, both parties have favored free trade. However, this has begun to change in the recent years with Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders having come out against job outsourcing. Back in the early 90s, independent candidate Ross Perot partly ran on opposition to NAFTA, referring to it as the giant sucking sound, whereas Bush and Clinton supported it. With Donald Trump in office, various tariffs have been enacted, most notably on solar panels and steel and aluminum.

All of this has led to a trade war between the US and China. In response to Trump's tariffs, China has enacted a tariff on soybeans which had a negative effect on soybean farmers. There are also concerns that the trade war will lead to a recession. If this happens, it will likely turn the American public against protectionism.

Trump isn't using tariffs to protect our country's industries, ala Smoot Hawley. He's using tariffs as a stick to induce other countries to make deals that are to our benefit. For example, China has been committing the seven deadly sins to our detriment for almost 30 years. Of course, they don't want to stop. So Trump is whacking them over and over with his tariff stick...and it hurts them. A lot. So they have a choice...make a deal or keep getting hit.

charliebrown · Oct 13, 2019

Walmart had an amazing business model to source products from third world countries with no labor laws and usually no human rights and reselling those products in the US. They also managed to put most smaller proprietorship businesses on main streets out of business.
It was an amazing wall street success story and it created some of the richest people in the world living within this country.
I personally could not be prouder of Walmart, our politicians and wall street for this amazing success story.
The anguish, agony and heart ship was spread out across so many communities that I honestly cannot get a good measure of that, so I will just ignore it.

When you read an article, ask yourself what the true source of this is? Corporations, Oligarchs and China wants free trade to continue because that is what is making them rich. Free trade is draining almost 1T dollars a year out of our economy and we are not asking why other countries are not buying, or WORSE YET STEALING our products and technologies to undermine us further.

Come of man, please at least ask why there is not fair trade!!!!

Drawdown · Oct 13, 2019

charliebrown said:
Walmart had an amazing business model to source products from third world countries with no labor laws and usually no human rights and reselling those products in the US. They also managed to put most smaller proprietorship businesses on main streets out of business.
It was an amazing wall street success story and it created some of the richest people in the world living within this country.
I personally could not be prouder of Walmart, our politicians and wall street for this amazing success story.
The anguish, agony and heart ship was spread out across so many communities that I honestly cannot get a good measure of that, so I will just ignore it.

When you read an article, ask yourself what the true source of this is? Corporations, Oligarchs and China wants free trade to continue because that is what is making them rich. Free trade is draining almost 1T dollars a year out of our economy and we are not asking why other countries are not buying, or WORSE YET STEALING our products and technologies to undermine us further.

Come of man, please at least ask why there is not fair trade!!!!

A lot of convenience stores and such in our area stock their shelves at from Walmart because they can buy it at retail there for cheaper than they can get the odds and ends goods other than smokes, cokes, and ETOH at wholesale through distributors. Their genius isn't in buying slave labor clothes. It is in developing state of the art distribution networks and sorting out the logistics to cut out as many middlemen as possible. Besides, in this day and age, Amazon is far more lethal to small business than Walmart.

As for the protection issue, it just depends on what the details are. We seem to have too much policy oriented around limited goods at the expense of other types of manufacturing.

rickc · Oct 14, 2019

charliebrown said:
Walmart had an amazing business model to source products from third world countries with no labor laws and usually no human rights and reselling those products in the US. They also managed to put most smaller proprietorship businesses on main streets out of business.
It was an amazing wall street success story and it created some of the richest people in the world living within this country.
I personally could not be prouder of Walmart, our politicians and wall street for this amazing success story.
The anguish, agony and heart ship was spread out across so many communities that I honestly cannot get a good measure of that, so I will just ignore it.

When you read an article, ask yourself what the true source of this is? Corporations, Oligarchs and China wants free trade to continue because that is what is making them rich. Free trade is draining almost 1T dollars a year out of our economy and we are not asking why other countries are not buying, or WORSE YET STEALING our products and technologies to undermine us further.

Come of man, please at least ask why there is not fair trade!!!!

Yep

When i was young our town was full of.mom and pop stores. Now you can walk through walmart and.see the.titles of all those different stores on the aisle lables. Mom and Pop work there now for minimum wage. The money doesn't stay in the community. It goes to corporate headquarters to be distributed to investors.

I don't shop at walmart.

HK.227 · Oct 14, 2019

Masterhawk said:
Do you support protectionism?

No. But I do support fair trade.
If a country abolishes common sense regulations solely to gain an unfair advantage, I have no problem with placing tarriffs on the relevant goods.
E.g. when a country takes a hatchet to environmental or worker safety codes, in order to provide their industry/agriculture with competitive advantages. I have zero problem with commensurate tarriffs being placed on such goods. Besides being ethically sound, this would also assist in developing common standards for global trade.

Care would have to be taken in order to prevent such a solution from degenerating into blatant protectionism, though. For one, I would oppose any efforts to centralize and codify definitions of what constituted "fair". Any such institution would be a prime target for corruption.

Masterhawk · Oct 14, 2019

HK.227 said:
No. But I do support fair trade.
If a country abolishes common sense regulations solely to gain an unfair advantage, I have no problem with placing tarriffs on the relevant goods.
E.g. when a country takes a hatchet to environmental or worker safety codes, in order to provide their industry/agriculture with competitive advantages. I have zero problem with commensurate tarriffs being placed on such goods. Besides being ethically sound, this would also assist in developing common standards for global trade.

Care would have to be taken in order to prevent such a solution from degenerating into blatant protectionism, though. For one, I would oppose any efforts to centralize and codify definitions of what constituted "fair". Any such institution would be a prime target for corruption.

Then why didn't you vote for the second option?

HK.227 · Oct 15, 2019

Masterhawk said:
Then why didn't you vote for the second option?

The title of the thread is: "Do you support protectionism?" That would imply that the poll question is in regards to tariffs for the sake of protectionism.
So the answer to your question would have to be: "Because I understand context."

Waddy · Oct 15, 2019

There has to be a way to level the playing field. How do American businesses compete with offshore companies who have no product liability, no EPA to worry about, can pollute at will, who don't have labor laws, don't offer benefits, can dump product to dominate a market, pay almost zero taxes, and steal or infringe any copyright? If tariffs can curb some of this abuse then I'm all for tariffs.

Masterhawk · Dec 7, 2019

Mycroft said:
Trump isn't using tariffs to protect our country's industries, ala Smoot Hawley. He's using tariffs as a stick to induce other countries to make deals that are to our benefit. For example, China has been committing the seven deadly sins to our detriment for almost 30 years. Of course, they don't want to stop. So Trump is whacking them over and over with his tariff stick...and it hurts them. A lot. So they have a choice...make a deal or keep getting hit.

Not to be a necromancer but how is the trade war going for the US? Is it bringing back jobs or is it hurting those sectors. Because from what I've been hearing on the news, it had a negative impact on soybean farmers.

Mycroft · Dec 7, 2019

Masterhawk said:
Not to be a necromancer but how is the trade war going for the US? Is it bringing back jobs or is it hurting those sectors. Because from what I've been hearing on the news, it had a negative impact on soybean farmers.

Who do you think stopped the US from selling soybeans to China? (hint: it wasn't Trump)

In any case, the American soybean producers are still growing and exporting soybeans...just not as much to China. They are adapting.

Soybean exports decrease to China but increase to other countries.

Masterhawk · Dec 7, 2019

Mycroft said:
Who do you think stopped the US from selling soybeans to China? (hint: it wasn't Trump)

In any case, the American soybean producers are still growing and exporting soybeans...just not as much to China. They are adapting.

Soybean exports decrease to China but increase to other countries.

In case you haven't noticed, placing tariffs on a country tends to cause that country to retaliate. Also, did it really go up in other countries enough to make up for China's tariffs? If so, why is the Trump Administration having to bail them out with more subsidies?
Louisiana farmers get $180M in federal aid for losses from trade war

Alfons · Dec 8, 2019

Masterhawk said:
Protectionism has existed in the past as a method of protecting a country's industries. This was very prominent as part of mercantilism which places emphasis on nations accumulating wealth.

Tariffs have played their role in American history; they used to be much higher than they are now. Until 1914, they were the federal government's main source of revenue.
https://www.princeton.edu/~pkrugman/tariff_history.png

Since the end of the Smoot Hawley tariff, tariffs in general have been in decline in the US. In 2017, the US had an average tariff rate of 1.66%. The EU was not much higher with 1.79%. Since the end of World War II, both parties have favored free trade. However, this has begun to change in the recent years with Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders having come out against job outsourcing. Back in the early 90s, independent candidate Ross Perot partly ran on opposition to NAFTA, referring to it as the giant sucking sound, whereas Bush and Clinton supported it. With Donald Trump in office, various tariffs have been enacted, most notably on solar panels and steel and aluminum.

All of this has led to a trade war between the US and China. In response to Trump's tariffs, China has enacted a tariff on soybeans which had a negative effect on soybean farmers. There are also concerns that the trade war will lead to a recession. If this happens, it will likely turn the American public against protectionism.

Yes, any sound economy shall be protectionist

Masterhawk · Dec 8, 2019

Alfons said:
Yes, any sound economy shall be protectionist

Yet the overwhelming majority of economists support free trade.

bomberfox · Dec 8, 2019

We have to rely on others as we cant do every single thing with every single resource on earth so nah not really

Do you support protectionism?

Do you suport tariffs?

yes, self reliance is something to strive for

Maybe not full protectionism but tariffs would be an effective way to prevent outsourcing

no

other

not sure

Masterhawk

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.

charliebrown

Drawdown

rickc

HK.227

Masterhawk

HK.227

Waddy

Masterhawk

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.

Masterhawk

Alfons

Masterhawk

bomberfox

Do you support protectionism?

Do you suport tariffs?

yes, self reliance is something to strive for

Maybe not full protectionism but tariffs would be an effective way to prevent outsourcing

no

other

not sure

Genius is where you find it.

Genius is where you find it.

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency