Do you support marriage for gay and transgender people?

[vegas giants]

That they've had for a very long time for the most part, from when they were actually part of the government. You are basically proposing punishing them for past wealth. But in reality, so long as they have no say in government, they should also not be taxed. I will easily take that tradeoff.

And I think they operate as a business and shoukd be taxed and regulated like any other business. They can still have the freedom to practice their religion within those laws


Freedom of religion has limits

 

[roguenuke]

And I think they operate as a business and shoukd be taxed and regulated like any other business. They can still have the freedom to practice their religion within those laws


Freedom of religion has limits

Then propose the change to the law based on that belief, but it has nothing to do with religious ceremonies and it isn't likely to pass.

 

[vegas giants]

Then propose the change to the law based on that belief, but it has nothing to do with religious ceremonies and it isn't likely to pass.

That is your opinion. It has everything to do with religious ceremonies if they will then be required to follow public accommodation laws

 

[roguenuke]

That is your opinion. It has everything to do with religious ceremonies if they will then be required to follow public accommodation laws

No. Because just like the private person performing a wedding ceremony, churches should not be forced to follow public accommodation laws. Pretty sure a church cannot sue you for failure to give a donation for a wedding, whereas a business can sue you for failure to pay them. The most the church could do would be to excommunicate you, shun you, turn other church members against you.

 

[vegas giants]

No. Because just like the private person performing a wedding ceremony, churches should not be forced to follow public accommodation laws. Pretty sure a church cannot sue you for failure to give a donation for a wedding, whereas a business can sue you for failure to pay them. The most the church could do would be to excommunicate you, shun you, turn other church members against you.

Yes they should be forced to. They are operating a business open to the public. A church can certainly say they will not perform a service if they dont get a donation. They are not required to perform them for free.


It's a business after all

 

[roguenuke]

Yes they should be forced to. They are operating a business open to the public. A church can certainly say they will not perform a service if they dont get a donation. They are not required to perform them for free.


It's a business after all

Again, they can say they won't perform one but they really cannot sue if someone doesn't donate. Just as they can require someone getting married to go through counseling. But it is not a business and again, I'm pretty sure you cannot be sued by a church for not giving that donation.

 

[vegas giants]

Again, they can say they won't perform one but they really cannot sue if someone doesn't donate. Just as they can require someone getting married to go through counseling. But it is not a business and again, I'm pretty sure you cannot be sued by a church for not giving that donation.

Dude. They collect the donation up front. If they dont get it they dont have to do the ceremony.

 

[Ren]

How would we not be here without them disobeying God?
They could not have been Christian before Christ existed

Because they are our first parents and they didn't have sex while in the Garden of Eden -- they were too innocent.

They were son and daughter of God as was Jesus. Christianity is one and the same with God's belief system -- it's all the same.

 

[mrjurrs]

Then your right to remain silent is not absolute. As a matter of fact, if no rights are absolute then you have no rights.

That's so far incorrect it's not in the same zip code. Is there freedom of religion in the US? If your religion required human sacrifice would it be your right to participate? That's extreme but how about this...If your church wanted to sing hymns outside at 2 in the morning in your neighborhood would you have the right to do that? The first time, yes...

 

[Ren]

If Adam and Eve existed, they would have to be from the same DNA according to the story of the Bible. We don't have to prove this is likely, since there is plenty of evidence against it.

Prove Harry Potter doesn't exist. Prove the Wizarding World or the world of "Toys" doesn't exist.

You're trying to plug your silly sciences into our faith in God. Come now, roguenuke, you should know better than that. Your time would be much better used showing us how humans suddenly appear out of nowhere, just like the Big Bang.

Why would I try to prove all that? I don't believe in any of it.

 

[Quag]

Because they are our first parents and they didn't have sex while in the Garden of Eden -- they were too innocent.

They were son and daughter of God as was Jesus. Christianity is one and the same with God's belief system -- it's all the same.

So yo believe Adam and Eve who had just 2 sons are the progenitors of all human?
Nope Christianity did not and could not exist until after Jesus existed

 

[Ren]

So yo believe Adam and Eve who had just 2 sons are the progenitors of all human?
Nope Christianity did not and could not exist until after Jesus existed

They had lots of children. Cain and Abel are just the ones that stand out.

Yup, Christianity is really God's gospel and all His prophets fall under His plan, including Jesus Christ.

 

[it's just me]

This is not about your church. This is not about any specific church or religion at all. It is about religions being able to choose who and which rites they perform for anyone, without the government interfering.

My officiant had a book of wedding ceremonies to help couples decide what they wanted. She was a Navy wife who did weddings for extra money for her family. I've seen several people get ordained online just to be able to perform weddings for friends. The only part any of them play in an official marriage is acting as a voluntary signatory to the document, which benefits the state on its own. There is no reason to use the ability to refuse any weddings, for any reason as some sort of justification for removing taxes from churches or individuals.

Now, if it is a government employee they should always have to perform weddings for anyone who legally can marry because that is part of their job, at least a reason the government is paying them, or a business specifically for weddings, as in a wedding chapel, should have to conform to the same laws as any other business does, including public accommodation law

That's so far incorrect it's not in the same zip code. Is there freedom of religion in the US? If your religion required human sacrifice would it be your right to participate? That's extreme but how about this...If your church wanted to sing hymns outside at 2 in the morning in your neighborhood would you have the right to do that? The first time, yes...

Wrong. If we are allowed to conduct services using only government sponsored liturgies, we have no freedom of worship. That's the way this is going, nobody is going to attend a 2AM choir practice. The only reason we offend some of you is that we exist.

 

[Quag]

They had lots of children. Cain and Abel are just the ones that stand out.

Yup, Christianity is really God's gospel and all His prophets fall under His plan, including Jesus Christ.

So massive incest was Gods plan? Seriously most people tend to say there were other humans outside the garden but hey go for the incest angle if you want I guess

Christianity did not exist before Jesus

 

[Ren]

So massive incest was Gods plan? Seriously most people tend to say there were other humans outside the garden but hey go for the incest angle if you want I guess

Christianity did not exist before Jesus

You don't think an all-powerful god could erase the flaws caused by incest to get the human race going?

Christianity in the sense of Jesus' ministry and beyond did not exist before Jesus, but anyone can deduce that. Why are you trying to pound home the obvious?

 

[mrjurrs]

Wrong. If we are allowed to conduct services using only government sponsored liturgies, we have no freedom of worship. That's the way this is going, nobody is going to attend a 2AM choir practice. The only reason we offend some of you is that we exist.

You wish. That 2 am service would be stopped by the govt under its ability to regulate time place and manner of worship...not content. The offensiveness comes from people of 'faith' telling others they 'know' (imo).

 

[Quag]

You don't think an all-powerful god could erase the flaws caused by incest to get the human race going?

Christianity in the sense of Jesus' ministry and beyond did not exist before Jesus, but anyone can deduce that. Why are you trying to pound home the obvious?

i dont think an all powerful God would make such a scenario necessary
because your comment made it appear as though you thought the world was 2k years old

I wanted to clarify

So to sum up Adam and Eve weren't Christian and your remark was an error

 

[it's just me]

You wish. That 2 am service would be stopped by the govt under its ability to regulate time place and manner of worship...not content. The offensiveness comes from people of 'faith' telling others they 'know' (imo).

The feeling is mutual.

 

[Ren]

i dont think an all powerful God would make such a scenario necessary
because your comment made it appear as though you thought the world was 2k years old

I wanted to clarify

So to sum up Adam and Eve weren't Christian and your remark was an error

I'm sorry, but your summation sucks.

You're making it look as if Adam and Eve are completely alien to Jesus Christ and that is not the case. They all followed the same God, therefore my remark is correct from that perspective.

 

[Quag]

I'm sorry, but your summation sucks.

You're making it look as if Adam and Eve are completely alien to Jesus Christ and that is not the case. They all followed the same God, therefore my remark is correct from that perspective.

You got it backwards
Jesus was alien to Adam and Eve
And they most certainly didnt follow God which is why they were kicked out

They were in no way shape or form Christian. Logic, reason and the Bible deny such an absurd and moronic claim

 

[Ren]

You got it backwards
Jesus was alien to Adam and Eve
And they most certainly didnt follow God which is why they were kicked out

They were in no way shape or form Christian. Logic, reason and the Bible deny such an absurd and moronic claim

You don't have it in any direction.

Adam and Eve ate the fruit because they had to. If they didn't, none of us would be here.

Yes, they disobeyed one of God's commandments but so has everyone else. You're trying to tell me that one act of disobedience is enough to seal your eternal fate. Using that logic, everyone's doomed except for Jesus Christ, and that's not how it works.

Adam and Eve were faithful servants of God and both are in the afterlife with Jesus Christ.

 

[roguenuke]

Dude. They collect the donation up front. If they dont get it they dont have to do the ceremony.

Then they don't have the ceremony. I don't have an issue with that. But not all do take it up front. While most probably do, that doesn't mean all will. And if they take it but decide not to give you a ceremony, you also couldn't sue them to get it back.

 

[vegas giants]

Then they don't have the ceremony. I don't have an issue with that. But not all do take it up front. While most probably do, that doesn't mean all will. And if they take it but decide not to give you a ceremony, you also couldn't sue them to get it back.

If they run a stupid business that is their problem


It's still a business

 

[dixon01767]

I believe we covered this


They should

Did you notice those here who only insists religious non profits should lose their tax exempt status?

 

[dixon01767]

Has marriage ceased being about those things now that people who just like to rub genitals together can also get married? I don’t understand why others having sex with a marriage license keeps you from living a married life as you see fit.

Im not making any statement whatsover as to what marriage is to individuals and am instead only speaking of what marriage is to the government who discriminates on the basis of who is married and who is not. Equal protection law refers to it as the "legitimate governmental interest" they are seeking to achieve with their discrimination. We now know that marriage to the government has nothing to do with procreation, as declared by the courts. The reasoning that declared gay marriage to be a constitutional right relies upon that determination.