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Do you support having a legal duty to retreat? [W:79]

Do you support requiring people to retreat/runaway?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 23 92.0%
  • Somewhere inbetween (explain)

    Votes: 2 8.0%
  • IDK/Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    25

joko104

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The oppose of SYG is the Duty to Retreat.

Which is the way you may or must react to a threatening bully? You can stand your ground? Or you have to run away?

Which way is it towards someone bent on assaulting you? You can stand your ground or you must run away?

Do you have a legal duty to let the bully or intimidating person hit or kick you, your wife, grandparent, child etc first before you can defend yourself or others?
 
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CRUE CAB

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

Run where? And at 50, how fast and far am I going to run from a determined attacker?
What if someone runs, then dies of a heartattack? Is that murder?
 

mak2

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

I believe in not killing anyone you dont have to.
 

lizzie

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

I do not support a retreat law in the least. When you retreat from violence, it reinforces to criminals and assholes that they can do whatever they please, without fear of consequences for their actions.
 

WCH

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

As a rule of thumb (at least for me) avoiding confrontation or physical altercation is always best. Use your
brain before using brute force.

In a situation where you are armed and have no choice in the matter or are protecting another.....display your weapon and if they don't cease and desist...bang! Even then I believe you can choose a lethal shot or not.

Each to his own.
 

Paschendale

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

If escape is an option, you should do it. Obviously, when it's not, you can't. If you escalate violence without justification, you are no longer defending yourself. You have become the aggressor. Adding violence to a situation is always a bad choice.
 

CRUE CAB

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

If escape is an option, you should do it. Obviously, when it's not, you can't. If you escalate violence without justification, you are no longer defending yourself. You have become the aggressor. Adding violence to a situation is always a bad choice.
Do you carry knee pads around with you?
Define escape. What about age, physical inability, confined space.
Define justification. What about fear, what about who else is with you, what about a million other intangibles that you cant name.
What about disparity of force, ie 255 lb man vs 98lb woman.
Start answering questions to your statements.
 

Paschendale

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

Do you carry knee pads around with you?
Define escape. What about age, physical inability, confined space.
Define justification. What about fear, what about who else is with you, what about a million other intangibles that you cant name.
What about disparity of force, ie 255 lb man vs 98lb woman.
Start answering questions to your statements.

Have you ever heard the phrase "balancing test"? That will answer all of your questions. Except the bit about the knee pads. I don't know what's up with that.
 

CRUE CAB

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

Have you ever heard the phrase "balancing test"? That will answer all of your questions. Except the bit about the knee pads. I don't know what's up with that.
So you have no answers.
 

MaggieD

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

The oppose of SYG is the Duty to Retreat.

Which is the way you may or must react to a threatening bully? You can stand your ground? Or you have to run away?

Which way is it towards someone bent on assaulting you? You can stand your ground or you must run away?

Do you have a legal duty to let the bully or intimidating person hit or kick you, your wife, grandparent, child etc first before you can defend yourself or others?

Well, hmmmm. SYG has always confused me. Frankly, I don't think it's needed. I think we just need to tweak the self-defense laws. Castle Laws are enough -- inside one's home. There's just no "one size fits all" in self-defense. I also think that some people think SYG laws are a license to shoot. That shouldn't be.

If I'm in my house and see someone messing with my car, it should not, in my opinion, be legal for me to shoot him. If I see someone running out of my garage with my lawnmower, that should not be license to shoot. Self-defense should be just that: defense of one's self or others.

It shouldn't be legal, when having a verbal traffic altercation, for someone to get out of their car with a gun and blow away the guy talking smack at his driver-side window.

I think the SYG interpretation needs to be narrowed. I do not think a person is under any obligation to retreat unless it is so obvious as to quite obviously be the right thing to do. And every case is different.

If I understand it correctly, the SYG law finds itself in our legal system in order to insulate people from civil lawsuits. You know, where the burglar is paralyzed by your gunshot and the family claims, "My son wasn't armed!!! He didn't have to shoot him!!"
 

digsbe

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

You have no duty to retreat. If someone threatens your life then they forfeit theirs. You have the right to use lethal force to protect your life if someone is threatening it.
 

mak2

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

I never here anyone say reasonable. IF a reasonable person would be in fear of their life.
You have no duty to retreat. If someone threatens your life then they forfeit theirs. You have the right to use lethal force to protect your life if someone is threatening it.
 

Thrilla

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

do I support the duty to retreat?... absolutely not.

I support the victim being able to choose his/her course of action is such situations... if they feel they must kill the aggressor in order to defend themselves, I hope they kill them quickly and efficiently... if they feel they must run away, I hope they run as fast and far as it takes.

the choice is not the governments to make.. it is the person who is in peril who makes the choice.
 

radcen

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

So you have no answers.

His answer was correct. It depends on the scenario placed in front of you at the given moment. You're seeking something akin to a checklist, which is impractical.
 

radcen

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

Well, hmmmm. SYG has always confused me. Frankly, I don't think it's needed. I think we just need to tweak the self-defense laws. Castle Laws are enough -- inside one's home. There's just no "one size fits all" in self-defense. I also think that some people think SYG laws are a license to shoot. That shouldn't be.

If I'm in my house and see someone messing with my car, it should not, in my opinion, be legal for me to shoot him. If I see someone running out of my garage with my lawnmower, that should not be license to shoot. Self-defense should be just that: defense of one's self or others.

It shouldn't be legal, when having a verbal traffic altercation, for someone to get out of their car with a gun and blow away the guy talking smack at his driver-side window.

I think the SYG interpretation needs to be narrowed. I do not think a person is under any obligation to retreat unless it is so obvious as to quite obviously be the right thing to do. And every case is different.

If I understand it correctly, the SYG law finds itself in our legal system in order to insulate people from civil lawsuits. You know, where the burglar is paralyzed by your gunshot and the family claims, "My son wasn't armed!!! He didn't have to shoot him!!"

Good post. :)
 

Lutherf

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

If escape is an option, you should do it. Obviously, when it's not, you can't. If you escalate violence without justification, you are no longer defending yourself. You have become the aggressor. Adding violence to a situation is always a bad choice.

No.

Let's say that you are the mother of two small children. Someone breaks into your house and is between you and your children. You can easily make a run for the door and get out of the situation. Would you? Should you? Should you be legally penalized because you didn't? What if the same situation occurs at the local park?
 

Thrilla

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

Well, hmmmm. SYG has always confused me. Frankly, I don't think it's needed. I think we just need to tweak the self-defense laws. Castle Laws are enough -- inside one's home. There's just no "one size fits all" in self-defense. I also think that some people think SYG laws are a license to shoot. That shouldn't be.

If I'm in my house and see someone messing with my car, it should not, in my opinion, be legal for me to shoot him. If I see someone running out of my garage with my lawnmower, that should not be license to shoot. Self-defense should be just that: defense of one's self or others.

It shouldn't be legal, when having a verbal traffic altercation, for someone to get out of their car with a gun and blow away the guy talking smack at his driver-side window.

I think the SYG interpretation needs to be narrowed. I do not think a person is under any obligation to retreat unless it is so obvious as to quite obviously be the right thing to do. And every case is different.

If I understand it correctly, the SYG law finds itself in our legal system in order to insulate people from civil lawsuits. You know, where the burglar is paralyzed by your gunshot and the family claims, "My son wasn't armed!!! He didn't have to shoot him!!"

SYG laws should not be needed but , unfortunately, some dolts decided to mandate the duty to retreat ...now SYG laws are needed to rectify that idiocy.
 

Thrilla

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

If escape is an option, you should do it. Obviously, when it's not, you can't. If you escalate violence without justification, you are no longer defending yourself. You have become the aggressor. Adding violence to a situation is always a bad choice.

oh, I dunno, I've added violence to situations before.. sometimes it was a bad choice.. other times it was a very good choice.... the "it's always a bad choice" crapola is utter nonsense.
 

joko104

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

Do you carry knee pads around with you?
Define escape. What about age, physical inability, confined space.

:lol:
 

Paschendale

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

No.

Let's say that you are the mother of two small children. Someone breaks into your house and is between you and your children. You can easily make a run for the door and get out of the situation. Would you? Should you? Should you be legally penalized because you didn't? What if the same situation occurs at the local park?

Have you ever heard the phrase "balancing test"? That will answer all of your questions.

His answer was correct. It depends on the scenario placed in front of you at the given moment. You're seeking something akin to a checklist, which is impractical.

This should cover everything you need to know. The point is to keep violence under control, to decrease it. The macho cowboy attitude won't cut it. And not rely on a bunch of dumb "what ifs" to decide policy. Those sorts of moments are extremely rare and piling more violence on top of them is not the solution.
 

joko104

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

SYG laws should not be needed but , unfortunately, some dolts decided to mandate the duty to retreat ...now SYG laws are needed to rectify that idiocy.

Yes, VERY observant of you.

SYG laws came about as increasingly the zippy pinheads started asserting - and some even codifying - the duty to run away/retreat. Prior to this, it was clear no person had to flee. However, by then proactively establishing SYG laws it becomes a matter of splitting hairs the other way.
 

joko104

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

Where it gets complicated is in response to highly aggressive, but not overtly giving notice of imminent assault, do you have to let the other take a free-shot at you first before you can defend - meaning it likely you no longer can? The rule of "the best defense is a good offense" applies to nearly any potential assault situation.
 

paddymcdougall

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

If escape is an option, you should do it. Obviously, when it's not, you can't. If you escalate violence without justification, you are no longer defending yourself. You have become the aggressor. Adding violence to a situation is always a bad choice.

Yes. Exactly.

What is the Asimov quote? "Violence is the last refuge of incompetents" - with the implication that competent people never need to use it.
 

Lutherf

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

This should cover everything you need to know. The point is to keep violence under control, to decrease it. The macho cowboy attitude won't cut it. And not rely on a bunch of dumb "what ifs" to decide policy. Those sorts of moments are extremely rare and piling more violence on top of them is not the solution.

I suppose that from a purely philosophical way of thinking it's nice to get rid of all the "what if's" but they are real and they play out in every interaction we have with each other. The "what if's" count and they count in a big way.
 

Lutherf

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Re: Do you support having a legal duty to retreat?

Yes. Exactly.

What is the Asimov quote? "Violence is the last refuge of incompetents" - with the implication that competent people never need to use it.

The idea that violence is never warranted is exceedingly naive. We NEVER have complete control over our circumstances and from time to time the use of violence is not only justifiable but it's the right way to handle things.
 
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