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Do you support Eugenics?

Trajan Octavian Titus

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Because if you support the abortion rights movement you support its founder Margaret Singer one of the founders of the Eugenics movement so popular in nazi Germany. You heard it here first the libs hero is a nazi but that comes as no suprise to me seeing as the oldest member of the Dem party is a former member of the KKK ya Sheets Byrd you heard me you old bastard!
 

Kelzie

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Because if you support the abortion rights movement you support its founder Margaret Singer one of the founders of the Eugenics movement so popular in nazi Germany. You heard it here first the libs hero is a nazi but that comes as no suprise to me seeing as the oldest member of the Dem party is a former member of the KKK ya Sheets Byrd you heard me you old bastard!
No. But good try at an argument there. Keep working, you'll get it.:roll:

Let me explain something. You can support something, without agreeing with everything the founder thought. :shock: I know crazy huh.

Let me show you what you are doing. I'm assuming you support women's right to vote, correct? Well, the founder of that movement was a women. And she was attracted to men. That means you must be attracted to men too.
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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Kelzie said:
No. But good try at an argument there. Keep working, you'll get it.:roll:

Let me explain something. You can support something, without agreeing with everything the founder thought. :shock: I know crazy huh.

Let me show you what you are doing. I'm assuming you support women's right to vote, correct? Well, the founder of that movement was a women. And she was attracted to men. That means you must be attracted to men too.
Well you know what they say about assumption right? But yes I support your right to vote and your right to get in the kitchen and bake me a pie j.k. but I could go for a nice piece of pie though. mmm pie. But I digress, but you know that a lot of the pro-abortionist militant feminist herald Margaret Singer as a hero of the womens lib movement even one of my hippie teachers made me read a paper about her which conveniently left the whole eugenics part out of course. It's like reading an article about Hitler while leaving out the whole Jew hating holocaust thing. It's just another example of the left trying to deify a demigod.
 
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Felicity

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Kelzie said:
No. But good try at an argument there. Keep working, you'll get it.:roll:

Let me explain something. You can support something, without agreeing with everything the founder thought. :shock: I know crazy huh..

Did you see my thread about Planned Parenthood's gushing defense of their foundress-- http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=4197

What's that say about the movement TODAY????
 

Kelzie

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Freakin A people! Just because she had bad parts does not mean subsequent people in the movement are bad. There's some evidence that Gandhi was abusive to his wife. Does that make his message bad? Learn to seperate here.
 

robin

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I don't support eugenics. But now the survival of the fittest doesn't apply so much in humans with a state welfare, one wonders if humans will become weaker & less intelligent & less healthy in the future. Especially as it's often those on welfare who are poor providers, often plain lazy, that tend to have the largest families.
 

Felicity

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Kelzie said:
Freakin A people! Just because she had bad parts does not mean subsequent people in the movement are bad. There's some evidence that Gandhi was abusive to his wife. Does that make his message bad? Learn to seperate here.
PP is defending her--honoring her as a hero--AND misrepresenting her OWN WORDS to purposfully rewrite the facts! That doesn't just make HER bad--that makes the organization bad in their OWN right!

Go ahead...keep stickin' your head in the sand!
 

Kelzie

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Felicity said:
PP is defending her--honoring her as a hero--AND misrepresenting her OWN WORDS to purposfully rewrite the facts! That doesn't just make HER bad--that makes the organization bad in their OWN right!
Gandhi? Anyone? Mean to his wife? Message still valuable? Ringing any bells?
 

Felicity

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Kelzie said:
Gandhi? Anyone? Mean to his wife? Message still valuable? Ringing any bells?

I have no idea about the allegations against Gandhi...

...but for argument's sake let's assume there is irrefutable proof of his abuse--in his OWN published works......Is anyone in the civil rights movement going to claim you just misunderstand and offer as proof an truncated quote that leaves off the most damaging admission of abuse? No! People would be distancing themselves from those statements--if not disavowing him altogether. NOT PP! No--they glorify their foundress-----why do you suppose that is? Seriously...why do you suppose they glorify this woman with such an obviously racist and elitist perspective? Perhaps its because they TOO ascribe to those beliefs (albeit not as openly--which is the worst kind of elitist snobbery!).
 

Felicity

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Kelzie said:
Message still valuable? ?
What's valuable in the message--"decrease the inferior black population through abortion" ????? And no....it wasn't only blacks--it was mentally ill and disabled, as well as the physically challenged, and poor people in general. I'll get you the DIRECT QUOTE from Sanger. Margaret Sanger--the "mother" of Planned Parenthood--whom they put on a pedestal as an icon of virtue! Crapola!
 
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Elektra

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Because if you support the abortion rights movement you support its founder Margaret Singer one of the founders of the Eugenics movement so popular in nazi Germany.
Or pre WW II U.S

http://www.notdeadyet.org/eughis.html


Otherwise there is nothing to say sicne one doesn't cause the other and your claim is logic free.
 

Felicity

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Elektra said:
Or pre WW II U.S

http://www.notdeadyet.org/eughis.html


Otherwise there is nothing to say sicne one doesn't cause the other and your claim is logic free.
Margaret Sanger was a MAJOR player in the Pre-WWII US Eugenics movement.


1916
Planned Parenthood founded

1920
Woman and the New Race by Margaret Sanger
New York: Brentanos Publishers, 1920.


"nothing more or less than the facilitation of the process of weeding out the unfit, of preventing the birth of defectives or those who will become defectives."

"Thus we see that the second and third children have a very good chance to live through the first year. Children arriving later have less and less chance, until the twelfth has hardly any chance at all to live twelve months. [npg] This does not complete the case, however, for those who care to go farther into the subject will find that many of those who live for a year die before they reach the age of five. [npg] Many, perhaps, will think it idle to go farther in demonstrating the immorality of large families, but since there is still an abundance of proof at hand, it may be offered for the sake of those who find difficulty in adjusting old-fashioned ideas to the facts. The most merciful thing that the large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it. The same factors which create the terrible infant mortality rate, and which swell the death rate of children between the ages of one and five, operate even more extensively to lower the health rate of the surviving members."

1921
Margaret Sanger. Speech quoted in Birth Control: What It Is, How It Works, What It Will Do. The Proceedings of the First American Birth Control Conference. Held at the Hotel Plaza, New York City, November 11-12, 1921. Published by the Birth Control Review, Gothic Press, pages 172 and 174.
"The third group [of society] are those irresponsible and reckless ones having little regard for the consequences of their acts, or whose religious scruples prevent their exercising control over their numbers. Many of this group are diseased, feeble-minded, and are of the pauper element dependent upon the normal and fit members of society for their support. There is no doubt in the minds of all thinking people that the procreation of this group should be stopped."

"The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda", Birth Control Review, October 1921, page 5.
"Eugenics is … the most adequate and thorough avenue to the solution of racial, political and social problems.

"As an advocate of birth control I wish ... to point out that the unbalance between the birth rate of the 'unfit' and the 'fit,' admittedly the greatest present menace to civilization, can never be rectified by the inauguration of a cradle competition between these two classes. In this matter, the example of the inferior classes, the fertility of the feeble-minded, the mentally defective, the poverty-stricken classes, should not be held up for emulation.... On the contrary, the most urgent problem today is how to limit and discourage the over-fertility of the mentally and physically defective."


"The campaign for birth control is not merely of eugenic value, but is practically identical with the final aims of eugenics."

"Birth Control and Racial Betterment", The Birth Control Review, 3(2)
Eugenists imply or insist that a woman's first duty is to the state; we contend that her duty to herself is her first duty to the state. We maintain that a woman possessing an adequate knowledge of her reproductive functions is the best judge of the time and conditions under which her child should be brought into the world. We further maintain that it is her right, regardless of all other considerations, to determine whether she shall bear children or not, and how many children she shall bear if she chooses to become a mother.



1922
Woman, Morality, and Birth Control. New York: New York Publishing Company, 1922. Page 12.
"Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race."

The Pivot of Civilization by Margaret Sanger
“RESEARCH: To collect the findings of scientists, concerning the relation of reckless breeding to the evils of delinquency, defect and dependence;
INVESTIGATION: To derive from these scientifically ascertained facts and figures, conclusions which may aid all public health and social agencies in the study of problems of maternal and infant mortality, child-labor, mental and physical defects and delinquence in relation to the practice of reckless parentage.
HYGIENIC AND PHYSIOLOGICAL instruction by the Medical profession to mothers and potential mothers in harmless and reliable methods of Birth Control in answer to their requests for such knowledge.

STERILIZATION of the insane and feebleminded and the encouragement of this operation upon those afflicted with inherited or transmissible diseases, with the understanding that sterilization does not deprive the individual of his or her sex expression, but merely renders him incapable of producing children
.

"Our 'overhead' expense in segregating the delinquent, the defective and the dependent, in prisons, asylums and permanent homes, our failure to segregate morons who are increasing and multiplying ... demonstrate our foolhardy and extravagant sentimentalism. No industrial corporation could maintain its existence upon such a foundation. Yet hardheaded 'captains of industry,' financiers who pride themselves upon their cool-headed and keen-sighted business ability are dropping millions into rosewater philanthropies and charities that are silly at best and vicious at worst. In our dealings with such elements there is a bland maladministration and misuse of huge sums that should in all righteousness be used for the development and education of the healthy elements of the community." "

"[Charity] conceals a stupid cruelty, because it is not courageous enough to face unpleasant facts. Aside from the question of the unfitness of many women to become mothers, aside from the very definite deterioration in the human stock that such programs would inevitably hasten, we may question its value even to the normal though unfortunate mother. For it is never the intention of such philanthropy to give the poor over-burdened and often undernourished mother of the slum the opportunity to make the choice herself, to decide whether she wishes time after to time to bring children into the world. It merely says 'Increase and multiply: We are prepared to help you do this.' Whereas the great majority of mothers realize the grave responsibility they face in keeping alive and rearing the children they have already brought into the world, the maternity center would teach them how to have more. The poor woman is taught how to have her seventh child, when what she wants to know is how to avoid bringing into the world her eighth.
"Such philanthropy, as Dean Inge has so unanswerably pointed out, is kind only to be cruel, and unwittingly promotes precisely the results most deprecated. It encourages the healthier and more normal sections of the world to shoulder the burden of unthinking and indiscriminate fecundity of others; which brings with it, as I think the reader must agree, a dead weight of human waste. Instead of decreasing and aiming to eliminate the stocks that are most detrimental to the future of the race and the world, it tends to render them to a menacing degree dominant."


"Eugenics aims to arouse the enthusiasm or the interest of the people in the welfare of the world fifteen or twenty generations in the future. On its negative side it shows us that we are paying for and even submitting to the dictates of an ever increasing, unceasingly spawning class of human beings who never should have been born at all—that the wealth of individuals and of states is being diverted from the development and the progress of human expression and civilization."

1932
Margaret Sanger, Birth Control Review, April 1932
"Give dysgenic groups [people with 'bad genes'] in our population their choice of segregation or [compulsory] sterilization."

1932
American Eugenic Society (Sanger was a member through the 60s) officially endorses Planned Parenthood.

1933
Birth Control Review, April 1933.
"Eugenic sterilization is an urgent need ... We must prevent multiplication of this bad stock." \

1939
September—Germany invades Poland.










http://www.nrlc.org/news/2004/NRL07/margaret_sanger_and_planned_pare.htm

http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/gutbook/lookup?num=1689
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Because if you support the abortion rights movement you support its founder Margaret Singer one of the founders of the Eugenics movement so popular in nazi Germany. You heard it here first the libs hero is a nazi but that comes as no suprise to me seeing as the oldest member of the Dem party is a former member of the KKK ya Sheets Byrd you heard me you old bastard!
A programme of eugenics would go a long way to reversing the damage done to the Aryan gene pool over the last 50 years.
Through genetic engineering we may be able to eliminate not only faulty genes that lead to hereditary illness but we will have arrived at the point where we would be able to create the Aryan Uebermensch.The dream of yesterday will become a reality tomorrow.
 

Felicity

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Aryan Imperium said:
A programme of eugenics would go a long way to reversing the damage done to the Aryan gene pool over the last 50 years.
Through genetic engineering we may be able to eliminate not only faulty genes that lead to hereditary illness but we will have arrived at the point where we would be able to create the Aryan Uebermensch.The dream of yesterday will become a reality tomorrow.
So you like Planned Parenthood's ideals, right...???
 

Felicity

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Aryan Imperium said:
the Aryan gene pool .
Just out of curiosity..what exactly constitutes Aryan genes?

Does economics play into "Aryan" at all?
 
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Felicity said:
Just out of curiosity..what exactly constitutes Aryan genes?

Does economics play into "Aryan" at all?

Rather a silly question?
Genes can be tracked to not only races but particular ethnic groups.
Scientists in the future should be able to eliminate any known non-Aryan genes from the Aryan gene pool,so helping to restore the racial purity that was ours prior to the greatest defeat and betrayal inflicted upon the Aryan race in 1945.
Economics is not my concern.
 

cnredd

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Aryan Imperium said:
Rather a silly question?
Genes can be tracked to not only races but particular ethnic groups.
Scientists in the future should be able to eliminate any known non-Aryan genes from the Aryan gene pool,so helping to restore the racial purity that was ours prior to the greatest defeat and betrayal inflicted upon the Aryan race in 1945.
Economics is not my concern.
Apparently, no one has gotten close to eliminating the silly-star chromasome yet.:roll:
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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Aryan Imperium said:
Rather a silly question?
Genes can be tracked to not only races but particular ethnic groups.
Scientists in the future should be able to eliminate any known non-Aryan genes from the Aryan gene pool,so helping to restore the racial purity that was ours prior to the greatest defeat and betrayal inflicted upon the Aryan race in 1945.
Economics is not my concern.
Just for your notice when I posted this the answer of yes was the one that was supposed to be insane. You can't honestly support eugenics can you? Why? What the hell happened to you that makes you this way? I'm a southerner and I still don't get it. I'm sorry but compassion is a trait that you lack and one that anyone with a shred of morality holds high above most others. I'm not a religious man but you need to speak to Jesus. You're on a straight path towards ruin and on your death bed in that last second of introspection you're going to question your life, good luck to you and I hope you find peace with yourself maybe then you can stop projecting your anger onto others.
 
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Felicity

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Aryan Imperium said:
Rather a silly question?
Genes can be tracked to not only races but particular ethnic groups.
Scientists in the future should be able to eliminate any known non-Aryan genes from the Aryan gene pool,so helping to restore the racial purity that was ours prior to the greatest defeat and betrayal inflicted upon the Aryan race in 1945.
Economics is not my concern.

Yeah...a silly question...what genetic ethnic group is closest to your Aryan ideal? Is it an actual race that existed at some point in the past? WHERE? Those indo-europeans? What is it? IEs aren't blond and blue eyed---aren't thay closer to Iranian genetics? You didn't answer my LEGITIMATE question. If there is such a gene pool--why can't you educate us on WHAT IT IS and explain what makes it superior?
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Just for your notice when I posted this the answer of yes was the one that was supposed to be insane. You can't honestly support eugenics can you? Why? What the hell happened to you that makes you this way? I'm a southerner and I still don't get it. I'm sorry but compassion is a trait that you lack and one that anyone with a shred of morality holds high above most others. I'm not a religious man but you need to speak to Jesus. You're on a straight path towards ruin and on your death bed in that last second of introspection you're going to question your life, good luck to you and I hope you find peace with yourself maybe then you can stop projecting your anger onto others.
23 years of age and you have the temerity to lecture me about life.You need to grow up first before you even attempt that.In my eyes you are but a child and by the sound of it quite spoilt too?
I want you to spend the next 12 months living in a negro ghetto and then I would like you to come back and continue to lecture us all on the joys of multiracialism. What a pity your "compassion" does not extend to admitting moslems into the USA?
 
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Felicity said:
Yeah...a silly question...what genetic ethnic group is closest to your Aryan ideal? Is it an actual race that existed at some point in the past? WHERE? Those indo-europeans? What is it? IEs aren't blond and blue eyed---aren't thay closer to Iranian genetics? You didn't answer my LEGITIMATE question. If there is such a gene pool--why can't you educate us on WHAT IT IS and explain what makes it superior?
The Aryan physical "ideal" is best exemplified in the Nordic subracial group.
It is a fact that scientists can trace genetic ancestry through DNA sampling and all races and ethnic groups have particular DNA patterns.To deny this is to deny the facts of the matter.
You are the one that used the term "superior",not I.
 

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Aryan Imperium said:
The Aryan physical "ideal" is best exemplified in the Nordic subracial group.
It is a fact that scientists can trace genetic ancestry through DNA sampling and all races and ethnic groups have particular DNA patterns.To deny this is to deny the facts of the matter.
I didn't deny that there are DNA patters--I simply asked what "gene pool" you referred to with the term Aryan.

Why is it called Aryan? and not Nordic?

You are the one that used the term "superior",not I.
Ok..why should "purity" of the gene pool be preserved or restored? What makes it worth preserving--or...as you put it..."reversing the damage done to" the gene pool? Specific qualities, please...and a rationale would be nice.
 
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I didn't deny that there are DNA patters--I simply asked what "gene pool" you referred to with the term Aryan.

The European gene pool.

Why is it called Aryan? and not Nordic?

Nordics are a sub group of the Aryan race.The actual number of sub groups does tend to differ according to who you debate this with.



Ok..why should "purity" of the gene pool be preserved or restored? What makes it worth preserving--or...as you put it..."reversing the damage done to" the gene pool? Specific qualities, please...and a rationale would be nice.[/QUOTE]

A great deal of effort,time and expense is expended on preserving all sorts of diverse animal,bird,fish and plant species so why should human groups be any different? Aren`t human races worth preserving? Surely my approach to the issue values "diversity" much more than those liberals who preach the melting pot?
 

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Aryan Imperium said:
I didn't deny that there are DNA patters--I simply asked what "gene pool" you referred to with the term Aryan.

The European gene pool.
Got that....do you mean the FIRST Europeans...or other? I ask, because the Nordic sub group wasn't the original.

A great deal of effort,time and expense is expended on preserving all sorts of diverse animal,bird,fish and plant species so why should human groups be any different? Aren`t human races worth preserving? Surely my approach to the issue values "diversity" much more than those liberals who preach the melting pot?
Thanks.

But you use the word "SPECIES" in your explanation.... Different races aren't different "species" (or do you not agree with that statement?...I don't want to assume...).
 
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]Got that....do you mean the FIRST Europeans...or other? I ask, because the Nordic sub group wasn't the original.

That all depends on what you term "original".Some of us would regards the Nordic subracial group as the true biological expression of the Aryan race,by which all other Aryan sub racial groups should be measured.



Thanks.

But you use the word "SPECIES" in your explanation.... Different races aren't different "species" (or do you not agree with that statement?...I don't want to assume...).[/QUOTE]

I am not going to enter into a useless argument on symantics.
Either you don`t believe that human races are worth saving or you do but don`t hide your views behind arguments on definitions of words!
 
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