• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation?

Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation?

  • Total voters
    35
AGENT J

AGENT J

"If you ain't first, you're last"
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
80,422
Reaction score
29,075
Location
Pittsburgh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Do you support
yes equal rights/anti-discrimination laws
no equal rights/anti-discrimination laws
yes add
no no not add
other

I support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws & adding sexual orientation IMO It will actually end up being protected under the existing group of "sex" just like the EEOC recently ruled.
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

Sexual orientation amount to Special Rights and it's total BS!
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

MickeyW said:
Sexual orientation amount to Special Rights and it's total BS!
Click to expand...

So you support equal rights and anti-discretion laws but NOT based on sexual orientation. That's interesting.

How would it be "special rights" in this case?
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

MickeyW said:
Sexual orientation amount to Special Rights and it's total BS!
Click to expand...

Not being fired for being gay is not a special right if the reason for being fired is "being gay". Not being kicked out of your apartment because you happen to be lesbian and married to another lesbian is not a special right, not if the only reason for the kicking out is "being gay".
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

As far as private businesses go...a private business owner should be able to hire and/or fire any sane adult for any reason they wish - sex, sexual orientation, hair color, show size...anything.

And I will not debate this as there is nothing to debate, that is the way it should be...period.

If the public does not like the hiring practices of a company, then boycott it.
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

MickeyW said:
Sexual orientation amount to Special Rights and it's total BS!
Click to expand...

So, not being fired for being a woman, man, black, white, brown, pregnant, old, young, christian, muslim, atheist, American, non-American, disabled, not-disabled, married or single is a right, but being fired for your sexual orientation is not and "total bs"?

What makes sexual orientation different from any of these other categories? The only choice I actually see in that group is religion, the rest are intrinsic qualities of the person. Do you just not like gays so you want to stick it to them?
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

AGENT J said:
Do you support
yes equal rights/anti-discrimination laws
no equal rights/anti-discrimination laws
yes add
no no not add
other

I support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws & adding sexual orientation IMO It will actually end up being protected under the existing group of "sex" just like the EEOC recently ruled.
Click to expand...

I was a strong supporter of equal-rights laws. They are now no longer necessary and probably were not then. What I find revolting and actually quite counterproductive is that groups think they require such legislation. If all men are to be treated equally, it has always seemed derogatory to add that women, blacks, Jews, lesbians ..... are equal too. This indicates that they are not and we demonstrate that by passing a law that gives them equality. It would be much better to trash the equal. rights laws and alter Constitution passages to say "persons" or "citizens" instead of "men", where applicable. Alternatively we could pass a law saying that the Word "men" as used in the founding documentation is to be applied as if it were the word "persons" in all American law, where not otherwise stated.

That would give the gays and Blacks etc back some dignity.
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

RabidAlpaca said:
So, not being fired for being a woman, man, black, white, brown, pregnant, old, young, christian, muslim, atheist, American, non-American, disabled, not-disabled, married or single is a right, but being fired for your sexual orientation is not and "total bs"?

What makes sexual orientation different from any of these other categories? The only choice I actually see in that group is religion, the rest are intrinsic qualities of the person. Do you just not like gays so you want to stick it to them?
Click to expand...

Awe come on! Don't be a bigot. ;)
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

Voted other. Adding sexual orientation as a protected class is an unfortunate need with consequences we have to come to terms with just as we did with race, religion, sex, age, disability, etc.

You would think with our society that we would not need such protections, if an organization did something that caused a public outcry the market response would be to no longer do business with that organization. "No blacks" allowed would get a hell of a response in most markets today, same with "no gays and lesbians served." As we have observed recently.

Our problem is one of history and reality. We have consistently over this nation's history designed one way or another to exclude for whatever reason and the reality is we do not have a market economy diverse enough so that those excluded have alternatives. The economic and social consequences were obvious then, and it should be obvious now why protected classes are an unfortunate need in our culture that has its own brand of social conservatism that stood against equality among races, equality among the sexes, etc.

In our history we have had the debate we are having right now over sexual orientation almost the exact same way they did then with race, or sex, or age protections, etc. We even characterize the reasons for being for or against protected classes the same way. Business freedoms really mean the freedom to be discriminatory, historically speaking when you get down to it. We have turned people away for work because of age saying the business model demanded so creating an unemployable bracket below social safety nets, we have told people of a certain race they are not welcome in local commerce using every excuse from religion to history causing economic disparity, and we see it today in the suggestion we should be able to hang up signs excluding based on sexual orientation because of religious ideology telling a demographic they are not included in local commerce.

It is all the same problem and it leads us to protected classes to handle a culture so intent to exclude. I do not like that we need protected classes, but I get why we most certainly are required to have them. Within the next 10 ('ish) years sexual orientation will be a protected class I suspect. That estimate has moved around a bit I'll admit but the reasoning holds.

What I've been saying for some time now is those today that stand for business discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation will end up in the history books right next to segregationists of the 1950s. Social conservatism will eventually lose this fight, just as they did with race and just as they did with women. In some ways those demographics are still pushing against a society determined to discriminate one way or another. It is no different for sexual orientation, and for that reason it is difficult to see that gays and lesbians will lose their fight when so many other demographics held back by social conservatism won their fight.
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

Peter King said:
Not being fired for being gay is not a special right if the reason for being fired is "being gay". Not being kicked out of your apartment because you happen to be lesbian and married to another lesbian is not a special right, not if the only reason for the kicking out is "being gay".
Click to expand...

But, why should the employer mention that the guy being gay is the reason for firing him? You see, in my experience in US, German, UK or French law you can always get rid of an employee, if you want, unless you act stupidly. Or do you think it should be like pregnancy and as long as he is gay, he is protected? ;)

What should be remembered is that employing a member of a protected social group implies higher potential transaction costs. This means a reduction in value leading to fewer jab openings and/or lower pay for the group members.
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

AGENT J said:
Do you support
yes equal rights/anti-discrimination laws
no equal rights/anti-discrimination laws
yes add
no no not add
other

I support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws & adding sexual orientation IMO It will actually end up being protected under the existing group of "sex" just like the EEOC recently ruled.
Click to expand...

You certainly would not want many an employer to have read this. He might think you could cause him trouble and unusual costs. ;)
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

People should ideally have as much freedom as possible, including the freedom to be jackasses.

That being said, the government has an obligation to uphold the welfare of all citizens (gay people pay taxes), so institutions that counteract that with discriminatory policies shouldn't be eligible for tax credits.
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

OrphanSlug said:
Voted other. Adding sexual orientation as a protected class is an unfortunate need with consequences we have to come to terms with just as we did with race, religion, sex, age, disability, etc.

You would think with our society that we would not need such protections, if an organization did something that caused a public outcry the market response would be to no longer do business with that organization. "No blacks" allowed would get a hell of a response in most markets today, same with "no gays and lesbians served." As we have observed recently.

Our problem is one of history and reality. We have consistently over this nation's history designed one way or another to exclude for whatever reason and the reality is we do not have a market economy diverse enough so that those excluded have alternatives. The economic and social consequences were obvious then, and it should be obvious now why protected classes are an unfortunate need in our culture that has its own brand of social conservatism that stood against equality among races, equality among the sexes, etc.

In our history we have had the debate we are having right now over sexual orientation almost the exact same way they did then with race, or sex, or age protections, etc. We even characterize the reasons for being for or against protected classes the same way. Business freedoms really mean the freedom to be discriminatory, historically speaking when you get down to it. We have turned people away for work because of age saying the business model demanded so creating an unemployable bracket below social safety nets, we have told people of a certain race they are not welcome in local commerce using every excuse from religion to history causing economic disparity, and we see it today in the suggestion we should be able to hang up signs excluding based on sexual orientation because of religious ideology telling a demographic they are not included in local commerce.

It is all the same problem and it leads us to protected classes to handle a culture so intent to exclude. I do not like that we need protected classes, but I get why we most certainly are required to have them. Within the next 10 ('ish) years sexual orientation will be a protected class I suspect. That estimate has moved around a bit I'll admit but the reasoning holds.

What I've been saying for some time now is those today that stand for business discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation will end up in the history books right next to segregationists of the 1950s. Social conservatism will eventually lose this fight, just as they did with race and just as they did with women. In some ways those demographics are still pushing against a society determined to discriminate one way or another. It is no different for sexual orientation, and for that reason it is difficult to see that gays and lesbians will lose their fight when so many other demographics held back by social conservatism won their fight.
Click to expand...

Actually it is tuning out that we have not yet come to terms with equal rights laws concerning "race, religion, sex, age, disability, etc. " and the consequences are now quite or probably more negative in many cases than they would be, if we had better legislation in these matters.
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

joG said:
But, why should the employer mention that the guy being gay is the reason for firing him? You see, in my experience in US, German, UK or French law you can always get rid of an employee, if you want, unless you act stupidly. Or do you think it should be like pregnancy and as long as he is gay, he is protected? ;)

What should be remembered is that employing a member of a protected social group implies higher potential transaction costs. This means a reduction in value leading to fewer jab openings and/or lower pay for the group members.
Click to expand...

The new General Act on Equal Treatment (Allgemeines Gleichbehandlungsgesetz, AGG) will come into force and effect on August 1, 2006. The purpose of the new act is to ensure equal treatment for all in the workplace. As a result, employers are now expressly prohibited from discriminating against job applicants or employees on the basis of gender, race or ethnic origin; religion or belief; age; disability; or sexual orientation. By passing this act, Germany has—at this late stage—implemented four EU directives regarding anti-discrimination, and has further increased the protection of job applicants and employees against potential discrimination. Thus far, German anti-discrimination rules were, with few exceptions, based on the constitutional charter of human rights and case law.

Pursuant to the AGG, a job applicant or an employee who has been discriminated against can claim damages within two months from becoming aware of such discrimination. Damages may also include a claim for non-pecuniary loss, such as pain and suffering. In addition, discriminatory agreements entered into with an employer or discriminatory sanctions imposed by an employer, such as termination on discriminatory grounds, are void. Under the new law, the employer is also obliged to protect employees from discrimination and discriminatory harassment by coworkers or third parties, such as customers.
Click to expand...

https://www.wilmerhale.com/pages/publicationsandnewsdetail.aspx?NewsPubId=88471

Firing in Germany is not that easy from what I have read/seen in German court programs/news shows.
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

joG said:
1.)I was a strong supporter of equal-rights laws. They are now no longer necessary and probably were not then.
2.) What I find revolting and actually quite counterproductive is that groups think they require such legislation.
3.) If all men are to be treated equally, it has always seemed derogatory to add that women, blacks, Jews, lesbians ..... are equal too.
4.) This indicates that they are not and we demonstrate that by passing a law that gives them equality.
5.) It would be much better to trash the equal. rights laws and alter Constitution passages to say "persons" or "citizens" instead of "men", where applicable. Alternatively we could pass a law saying that the Word "men" as used in the founding documentation is to be applied as if it were the word "persons" in all American law, where not otherwise stated.
6.) That would give the gays and Blacks etc back some dignity.
Click to expand...

1.) then you were never a supporter because they are always needed
2.) yes it is revolting that we do needed but thats reality since theres so many people that dont care about other peoples rights
3.) well you just proved you dont understand equal rights at all. Blacks, women and jews were never added or singled out in law
4.) true many people dont treat them as equal and still get away with it hence why the rights need protected. COmmon sense
5.) thats essentially what it already does
6.) again this is what equal rights already is designed to do, its the bigots that keep trying to side step it that are the problem.
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

joG said:
You certainly would not want many an employer to have read this. He might think you could cause him trouble and unusual costs. ;)
Click to expand...

Thats his own issue, his made up feelings don't matter to rights. He is free not to be an employer if he doesn't want to follow the law and respect peoples rights like we ALL have too ;)
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

DA60 said:
As far as private businesses go...a private business owner should be able to hire and/or fire any sane adult for any reason they wish - sex, sexual orientation, hair color, show size...anything.

And I will not debate this as there is nothing to debate, that is the way it should be...period.

If the public does not like the hiring practices of a company, then boycott it.
Click to expand...

So your answer is no you don't support equal rights/anti discrimination laws and you dont think gays should have the same protections has we do now. got it.
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

Peter King said:
https://www.wilmerhale.com/pages/publicationsandnewsdetail.aspx?NewsPubId=88471

Firing in Germany is not that easy from what I have read/seen in German court programs/news shows.
Click to expand...

You are right that in Germany you must be careful the way you do it. You must talk with the lawyer and the HR people and coordinate carefully. But, you can always gt rid of someone. It is just more complicated. And as far as discrimination is concerned, it is practiced all the time in Germany.
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

joG said:
You are right that in Germany you must be careful the way you do it. You must talk with the lawyer and the HR people and coordinate carefully. But, you can always gt rid of someone. It is just more complicated. And as far as discrimination is concerned, it is practiced all the time in Germany.
Click to expand...

Well, let's be honest, if you are an employer and you fire someone for solely being gay (even though he is a good employee in all other things), than you are an SOB and deserve to be sued for discrimination. That at least is my opinion.
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

Can anybody share thier reasoning on why they support equal rights and anti-discrimination laws but don't want sexual orientation added to it or protected?
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

DA60 said:
As far as private businesses go...a private business owner should be able to hire and/or fire any sane adult for any reason they wish - sex, sexual orientation, hair color, show size...anything.

And I will not debate this as there is nothing to debate, that is the way it should be...period.

If the public does not like the hiring practices of a company, then boycott it.
Click to expand...


Damn straight! I boycott companies that cater to gays or are anti-gun.

RabidAlpaca said:
So, not being fired for being a woman, man, black, white, brown, pregnant, old, young, christian, muslim, atheist, American, non-American, disabled, not-disabled, married or single is a right, but being fired for your sexual orientation is not and "total bs"?

What makes sexual orientation different from any of these other categories? The only choice I actually see in that group is religion, the rest are intrinsic qualities of the person. Do you just not like gays so you want to stick it to them?
Click to expand...

You are correct....gays disgust me and I think they are mentally ill. They can have the same rights as i do....but keep their goofy sexual orientation in the closet where it belongs!
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

AGENT J said:
Do you support
yes equal rights/anti-discrimination laws
no equal rights/anti-discrimination laws
yes add
no no not add
other

I support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws & adding sexual orientation IMO It will actually end up being protected under the existing group of "sex" just like the EEOC recently ruled.
Click to expand...

No. The law should not condone sodomy.
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

Paleocon said:
No. The law should not condone sodomy.
Click to expand...


Nor should it allow sick deviate behavior to be displayed in front of children, leading them to believe that this behavior is normal.....

Gayism is not normal when it only makes up about 3% of the population....who incidentally like to bully the other 97% into thinking it is normal.

I don't give a rats ass what people do in private, but when their deviate proclivities are displayed in public .....and they throw it our faces...I say that's going way too far.
 
Last edited:
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

MickeyW said:
Damn straight! I boycott companies that cater to gays or are anti-gun.



You are correct....gays disgust me and I think they are mentally ill. They can have the same rights as i do....but keep their goofy sexual orientation in the closet where it belongs!
Click to expand...

You sound like an incredibly hate filled person. I hope you manage to get over it someday, neither gays nor gay rights are going away.
 
Re: Do you support equal rights/anti-discrimination laws? & adding sexual orientation

Paleocon said:
No. The law should not condone sodomy.
Click to expand...

Wrong thread, please stay on topic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom