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Do you support airport ethnic profiling of Middle Easterners?

Do you support ethnic profiling?

  • A) Yes

    Votes: 13 56.5%
  • B) No

    Votes: 10 43.5%

  • Total voters
    23
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Look for me the issue is really simple Caucasion, African Americans, and Latinos did not perpetrate 9-11, so to me this is not a racist issue this is an issue of common sense, airport security should not be wasting their time and resources strip searching old people and looking into kids shoes for bombs when it is quite obvious as to where the real threat lies. While it's true that most Arabs are not terrorists it is equally true that most terrorists are Arab. These are the people who smashed planes into the WTC and the pentagon and it's obvious at a glance that they are all of middle eastern descent:

 
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curt

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I'm going to be a prick and not answer the question. Perhaps "Other" would be an extra option.

The gov't should not have the right to dictate to business' how they should operate. If they choose to enact ethnic profiling, I support their decision to do so. If they choose not to, I support that as well. Let the free market determine what the superior system is. I would think not subjecting customers to un-needed hassle would be better business, because terrorism is over-hyped anyway.
 

Caine

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Ahmed Alnami looks kinda like Robert Downey Jr.

ARREST ROBERT DOWNEY JR!!!!!
 

Kandahar

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curt said:
The gov't should not have the right to dictate to business' how they should operate. If they choose to enact ethnic profiling, I support their decision to do so. If they choose not to, I support that as well. Let the free market determine what the superior system is.
Government sure as hell does have the right to tell airlines exactly how to screen their passengers; in fact that's one of the few things the government DOES have the right to do. What does the free market have to do with flying airplanes into buildings?
 

Kandahar

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Who voted "no" to this poll? Please defend this indefensible position.
 
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curt said:
I'm going to be a prick and not answer the question. Perhaps "Other" would be an extra option.

The gov't should not have the right to dictate to business' how they should operate. If they choose to enact ethnic profiling, I support their decision to do so. If they choose not to, I support that as well. Let the free market determine what the superior system is. I would think not subjecting customers to un-needed hassle would be better business, because terrorism is over-hyped anyway.
Over hyped? Get real. And as far as not harrassing customers needlessly what do you think is happening now? It's because they won't allow for ethnic profiling that old women and kids are being searched it is a waste of time, man power, and resources and simply inefficient and ineffective. Furthermore; I'm pretty sure that airports are publicly owned it's the airlines that operate out of them that are private.
 

curt

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Kandahar said:
What does the free market have to do with flying airplanes into buildings?
Bit of a loaded question is it not? They can make their own decisions on how to best provide security, such as properly armed security guards on board, impenaturable cockpit doors etc. I do know that an airline having their plane shot out of the sky by an F-14 would be bad for business, so they'll likely take the precautions they feel are needed. I do support the gov'ts right to shoot a plane out of the sky when it becomes a threat, and I believe they should have the discretion to make that choice.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Over hyped? Get real. And as far as not harrassing customers needlessly what do you think is happening now? It's because they won't allow for ethnic profiling that old women and kids are being searched it is a waste of time, man power, and resources and simply inefficient and ineffective. Furthermore; I'm pretty sure that airports are publicly owned it's the airlines that operate out of them that are private.
So..... your trying to tell me that the only people who are capable of conducting terrorist attacks are people who appear to be "Middle Eastern"?

Come on, remember the guy who set off a bomb at the olympics?
How about the guy who blew up the Oklahoma City Government Building.
Hmm...
These are just two examples.
And no, don't say that domestic terrorists don't hijack planes, Just because they haven't done it yet, doesn't mean they haven't thought of it and/or are capable of doing it.
 

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Kandahar said:
Who voted "no" to this poll? Please defend this indefensible position.
I voted no...
What? What are you gonna do?
 

curt

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Over hyped? Get real. And as far as not harrassing customers needlessly what do you think is happening now? It's because they won't allow for ethnic profiling that old women and kids are being searched it is a waste of time, man power, and resources and simply inefficient and ineffective.
I stand by my over-hyped comment. I didn't say it was non-existent.

Please don't put thoughts in my head. I didn't state my support of strip searching Irish nuns, Swedish males et al, but said that it should be the airlines choice on what security measures to enact.

Furthermore; I'm pretty sure that airports are publicly owned it's the airlines that operate out of them that are private.
I wasn't aware of this. As a libertarian, do you support airports being owned by the gov't? My argument hinges on gov't encroachment on business, so if airport aren't privately owned, then I suppose my it's all a moot point for me.
 
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curt said:
I stand by my over-hyped comment. I didn't say it was non-existent.

Please don't put thoughts in my head. I didn't state my support of strip searching Irish nuns, Swedish males et al, but said that it should be the airlines choice on what security measures to enact.



I wasn't aware of this. As a libertarian, do you support airports being owned by the gov't? My argument hinges on gov't encroachment on business, so if airport aren't privately owned, then I suppose my it's all a moot point for me.
As a libertarian sure I do why not they don't own the airlines operating out of the airport it's like them owning the football stadium but not the team that plays out of it Libertarians aren't pro-anarchy well they are for economic anarchy but the airports are public space not public business the airport doesn't make the money the airlines do. And if you really want to get technical the airlines are on corporate welfare something libertarians are adomantly opposed to.
 

Kandahar

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curt said:
Bit of a loaded question is it not? They can make their own decisions on how to best provide security, such as properly armed security guards on board, impenaturable cockpit doors etc. I do know that an airline having their plane shot out of the sky by an F-14 would be bad for business, so they'll likely take the precautions they feel are needed. I do support the gov'ts right to shoot a plane out of the sky when it becomes a threat, and I believe they should have the discretion to make that choice.
Except you don't go through different security lines from one airline to another. At many airports, you go through the same line no matter where you're going or what company you're flying with. The policies are those of the (government-run) FAA, not any individual airline.

But let's suppose that each airline had its own security system. If I'm a terrorist and I decide that Acme Airlines has the weakest security at a given airport, you better believe I'm going to choose Acme Airlines. And if my plane isn't shot out of the sky by an F-14 before I do whatever it is I planned to do (or possibly, even if it is shot down), the business ramifications would affect a lot more than Acme Airlines.

A free market doesn't imply that you allow companies to be grossly negligent with the lives of innocent people who have nothing to do with them.
 

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Caine said:
So..... your trying to tell me that the only people who are capable of conducting terrorist attacks are people who appear to be "Middle Eastern"?
No, but the overwhelming majority of them are.

Caine said:
Come on, remember the guy who set off a bomb at the olympics?
How about the guy who blew up the Oklahoma City Government Building.
Hmm...
These are just two examples.
OK, I'll accept your two examples if you accept the 10,000 counterexamples.

Caine said:
And no, don't say that domestic terrorists don't hijack planes, Just because they haven't done it yet, doesn't mean they haven't thought of it and/or are capable of doing it.
Of course any ethnicity is capable of hijacking a plane; that doesn't mean that all ethnicities are equally likely to do so. There's nothing wrong with focusing security resources on the groups most likely to be involved with terrorism, and it's silly to pretend that most terrorism isn't caused by Middle-Eastern Arab Muslims.
 
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Caine

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Kandahar said:
No, but the overwhelming majority of them are.



OK, I'll accept your two examples if you accept the 10,000 counterexamples.



Of course any ethnicity is capable of hijacking a plane; that doesn't mean that all ethnicities are equally likely to do so.
Hmm.... So...You want to discriminate against 2nd Generation Muslim-Americans out of fear of the Middle Eastern Boogey Man?
I agree with curt, Terrorism is WAYY overhyped.
 

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Caine said:
Hmm.... So...You want to discriminate against 2nd Generation Muslim-Americans out of fear of the Middle Eastern Boogey Man?
I agree with curt, Terrorism is WAYY overhyped.
Is your opposition to ethnic profiling because you don't believe it's fair, or because you don't believe the "terrorism hype" in general? Would you be any more inclined to support such profiling if the United States were suffering from ten terrorist attacks per day, 99% of them from Middle-Eastern Arab Muslims? Or would you point to the 1% as proof that others are just as capable of committing terrorism?
 

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Kandahar said:
Is your opposition to ethnic profiling because you don't believe it's fair, or because you don't believe the "terrorism hype" in general? Would you be any more inclined to support such profiling if the United States were suffering from ten terrorist attacks per day, 99% of them from Middle-Eastern Arab Muslims? Or would you point to the 1% as proof that others are just as capable of committing terrorism?
One, I seriously don't believe in the Terrorist Hype. Ya, terrorism blows, but it happens, and its best to stop keeping your OWN nation in "terror" by constantly threatening them with threats of terrorism. Lately, any bit of opposition and YOUR HELPING THE TERRORISTS! If you don't agree with Middle Eastern Racial Profiling YOUR HELPING THE TERRORISTS! If you think the executive is taking advantage of powers that aren't required in the Patriot Act, and wish to extend it only so you can reform it, YOUR HELPING THE TERRORISTS! If you don't agree that the Prez was within his constitutional authority when conducting wiretapping for reasons of National Security, YOUR HELPING THE TERRORISTS!

Two, I DO NOT agree with ANY form of Racial Profiling, if we can get away with profiling Arabs, why don't we start profiling Blacks for violent crime? Whites for "White-Collar" Crime, Latinos for Cocaine Trafficking, Christians for bombing Abortion Clinics? (Heaven forbid that would happen, John Gibson would scream bloody murder) Its just silly. Discriminate against everyone and you cover all ethnicities, INCLUDING, the Middle-Eastern Boogey Man.

Three, Back to the threat of Terrorism, I think, personally the government is using it as a way to terrorize the people into giving up personal freedoms and giving powers to the government that they don't necessarily need in order to protect us all from the Middle-Eastern Boogey Man.
 

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Caine said:
One, I seriously don't believe in the Terrorist Hype. Ya, terrorism blows, but it happens, and its best to stop keeping your OWN nation in "terror" by constantly threatening them with threats of terrorism.
Fair enough. I'd agree that there is a lot of hype surrounding terrorism. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't take any preventative measures.

Caine said:
Lately, any bit of opposition and YOUR HELPING THE TERRORISTS! If you don't agree with Middle Eastern Racial Profiling YOUR HELPING THE TERRORISTS! If you think the executive is taking advantage of powers that aren't required in the Patriot Act, and wish to extend it only so you can reform it, YOUR HELPING THE TERRORISTS! If you don't agree that the Prez was within his constitutional authority when conducting wiretapping for reasons of National Security, YOUR HELPING THE TERRORISTS!
Straw man. Please find me any post I've made where I've said any of those things.

Caine said:
Two, I DO NOT agree with ANY form of Racial Profiling, if we can get away with profiling Arabs, why don't we start profiling Blacks for violent crime? Whites for "White-Collar" Crime, Latinos for Cocaine Trafficking, Christians for bombing Abortion Clinics? (Heaven forbid that would happen, John Gibson would scream bloody murder) Its just silly. Discriminate against everyone and you cover all ethnicities, INCLUDING, the Middle-Eastern Boogey Man.
Within this paragraph seems to be a tacit admission that Arabs cause most terrorism...

There is one important distinction between terrorist profiling and those other things: Ethnic profiling at the airport is designed to prevent imminent attacks on the lives of innocent people, whereas none of those other types of profiling are. Yes, blacks may be statistically more likely to commit violent crime, but randomly stopping a black motorist will do nothing to prevent it unless the officer has reason to suspect that such a crime was imminent or in progress.

I don't see any reason that race shouldn't be used, when (but only when) it can be an effective way to prevent crime. If police receive tips that a certain gang plans to kill everyone in their rival gang, surely you would agree that it's not wrong for the police to question people wearing that gang's clothes? They may be completely innocent of that particular crime, but they fit a general profile. Police profile based on clothes, ideology, gender, relation to a specific person, etc. Why should ethnicity be specifically excluded? Or are you suggesting that police not focus their efforts at all, and just question completely random people about crimes?

Caine said:
Three, Back to the threat of Terrorism, I think, personally the government is using it as a way to terrorize the people into giving up personal freedoms and giving powers to the government that they don't necessarily need in order to protect us all from the Middle-Eastern Boogey Man.
The government might be overhyping it, but come on, you don't really believe that the government is unfairly demonizing Middle Easterners, do you? Face it, Middle Easterners are responsible for most of the terrorism in the world. Pointing to a few examples of white terrorists does not address the big picture.
 
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One of my friends was made to open his bags in front of a busload of people to prove he wasn't going to blow himself up before he could board.

The ironic part?

He's actually Jewish.
 

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Many Islamic fundamentalists are not from Middle Eastern or South Central Asian regions at all, so it would seem that any narrowing of focus on our part could easily be assimilated by terrorist groups by recruiting more non-Arab suicide bombers. I'm not saying that the practices as they stand are reasonable, I just think its a little shortsighted and reactionary to think that focusing our attention on Arab men is going to greatly curb the threat of terrorist attacks on airplanes.
 

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Richard Reid wasn't of Middle Eastern descent. What if you start profiling Middle Easterners and they send in their Caucasian recruits, knowing you'll be foolish and ignore them?
 

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Kandahar said:
Who voted "no" to this poll? Please defend this indefensible position.
I haven't voted yet.
However, if we only screen folks based on a certain set of criteria, especially a publicly knowable one such as an appearance of middle eastern descent, then all that a terrorist organization has to do to defeat the measure and get around our screening is to employ folks who do not match the criteria.

To insure that a terrorist operative can get on the plane unscreened all that the terrorists would have to do is to use someone who does not meet the established criteria. Fairly obvious work-around from the terrorists' PoV.

Random screenings are harder to get around. There's no way to be sure that your terrorist operative will be able to get on unscreened. And the costs in lost manhours indoctrinating and training the operative and the risks involved in having the operative captured are significant.
 

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When Bobby Kennedy was investigating Klan violence, he only investigated white people, primarily young to middle-aged, white men because they were the only ones lynching blacks. Nobody threw the Klan a pity party, painting them as misunderstood victims.

100% of terrorist attacks on American airliners have come from young, Arab, Muslim men. Why are we having this debate? Is it really that controversial to look closer at those who fit the description more than little old white ladies from Iowa? What are we worried about on behalf of these people anyway, airline inconveniences? As opposed to mass murder?!? Many Muslims are fine with contributing to national security by letting themselves be scrutinized. One man on the news once even said that HIS safety was why he was fine with letting the government profile him.

We DO have white militia terrorists, and there are female terrorists who don't fit the profile, but if profiling ALONE can prevent the 95% of attacks from people who DO fit the profile, isn't it worth it?
 

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aquapub said:
100% of terrorist attacks on American airliners have come from young, Arab, Muslim men.
I repeat: RICHARD REID.

Fortunately his plot failed, but it could well have succeeded.
 

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aquapub said:
When Bobby Kennedy was investigating Klan violence, he only investigated white people, primarily young to middle-aged, white men because they were the only ones lynching blacks. Nobody threw the Klan a pity party, painting them as misunderstood victims.

100% of terrorist attacks on American airliners have come from young, Arab, Muslim men. Why are we having this debate? Is it really that controversial to look closer at those who fit the description more than little old white ladies from Iowa? What are we worried about on behalf of these people anyway, airline inconveniences? As opposed to mass murder?!? Many Muslims are fine with contributing to national security by letting themselves be scrutinized. One man on the news once even said that HIS safety was why he was fine with letting the government profile him.

We DO have white militia terrorists, and there are female terrorists who don't fit the profile, but if profiling ALONE can prevent the 95% of attacks from people who DO fit the profile, isn't it worth it?
How is profiling going to prevent 95% of terrorist attacks if the terrorists simply change the racial make-up of their bombersin response to it? Did you know that fewer than 15% of those of the Islamic faith are Arab?
 

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Last week I started a poll asking if Christen Fundamentalists were getting as bad as Islamic Fundamentalists. The winning responce was yes, but the opposition which were christians, though not fundamenalists, were pretty upset about the idea of Chirstens being as bad as terrorists. I can understand why they were upset, though I cannot say that they knew why they were.

I think they were upset because even though they weren't Chisten Fundamentalists, but instead just down to earth christians, they felt like they were being persecuted. Even though they wouldn't go out and burn down an abortion clinic, or run an African American family out of their town, or commit a hate crime against a homosexual, they felt deep down that in being Christens they would be included with the Fundamentalists based on the similarities of their core beliefs.

This is the very thing that is happening to the Muslims right know. They are being treated like they are terrorists even though they are not fundamentalists that wish for all American infedels to die. They actually understand the Ku'ran and Mohammed's words against violence. Yet people like you believe that because you're white you should be able to walk right on a plane with a pocket knife and anyone looking to be Middle Eastern should have a cavity search. No matter how you slice this pie it is still racist you're just too ignorant to know it. I say this because of your vehemence in defending the violations of human rights currently being conducted by the U.S. in another thread.

I looked at your profile Trajan, you are too young to be this blinded by hate and fear. Who's your handler? Your dad? The president of your frat?

You're also probably too young to remember Timothy McVeigh, I mean you were 13 then and 10 years is appearantly too long of a time to remember back to for conservatives. Anyway he was white, American, a veteran of the Gulf War, and a domestic terrorist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

I think these times require clarity.

I voted NO.
 
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