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Do you see the Ukraine as a nation of its own or as a break-away Russian province?

Do you see the Ukraine as a nation of its own or as a break-away Russian province?

  • a nation of its own

    Votes: 53 88.3%
  • a break-away Russian provine

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • something else

    Votes: 5 8.3%
  • I have no idea

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    60

Rumpel

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Do you see the Ukraine as a nation of its own or as a break-away Russian province?
 

Rogue Valley

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The same documents - The Belovezha Accords - that created Ukraine as an independent sovereign nation in 1991 were the same documents that also created the Russian Federation and Belarus.

If one nation is not independenat and sovereign, then the other two nations cannot be any different.

The Belovezha Accords were signed by the presidents of Ukraine, Belarus, and the Russian Federation at the Viskuly Government House in Belarus, on 8 December 1991.

RIAN_archive_848095_Signing_the_Agreement_to_eliminate_the_USSR_and_establish_the_Commonwealth_of_Independent_States.jpg
 

Juin

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Do you see the Ukraine as a nation of its own or as a break-away Russian province?


I voted something else.

1 Ukraine was a breakaway Russian "province". Or an ex vassal. At least that is how Ukrainian protagonists describe the past relationship.

2. Ukraine is now independent and a legit nation in its own right.

1 and 2 are not necessarily in conflict.



The same question can also be asked of the Donbass?

1 Is the Donbass a Ukrainian "province"?

2 Are the newly independent Luhansk and Donetsk Republics nations in their own right?
 

Rumpel

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Now 5 of 6 say:​

a nation of its own​

 

Rumpel

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It doesn't matter what we think, it matters what the Ukrainians think.
This is a forum - don't you know?
Here we can talk about our thoughts and opinions.
That is why there are forums there.
Didn't you know?
 

Rumpel

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7 of eight now say: a nation of its own
 

Phys251

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I voted something else.

1 Ukraine was a breakaway Russian "province". Or an ex vassal. At least that is how Ukrainian protagonists describe the past relationship.

2. Ukraine is now independent and a legit nation in its own right.

1 and 2 are not necessarily in conflict.



The same question can also be asked of the Donbass?

1 Is the Donbass a Ukrainian "province"?

2 Are the newly independent Luhansk and Donetsk Republics nations in their own right?

This Russian propaganda isn't convincing anyone.
 

Rumpel

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This song is about Ireland - but is also reminds me of the Ukraine.
 

mrjurrs

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And after the fall of the USSR, Ukraine would have been the world's fourth (I think) largest nuclear power. Ukraine willingly gave up the nukes located in their country for assurances from the west that we would have their back.

Time to pay the piper...
 

CaughtInThe

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This is a genius of what Putin did.

He now has people asking this question. He has started the conversation. He's gonna make it easier for his invasion
 

Rumpel

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This is a genius of what Putin did.

He now has people asking this question. He has started the conversation. He's gonna make it easier for his invasion
Putin has answered his own question this way that he sees the Ukraine as a part of Russia.
I do see the Ukraine as a nation of its own.
 

mrdeltoid

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Ukraine's status as an independent sovereign power has internationally recognized for some time now.
Their border is in jeopardy with a half million Russian troops but worry not, Biden sent Harris, since she took good care of out southern border. 😝
 

mrdeltoid

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Putin has answered his own question this way that he sees the Ukraine as a part of Russia.
I do see the Ukraine as a nation of its own.
Maybe if he annexes it like he did Crimea we can call it “The” Ukraine again. Kinda like Miami calls it’s university “The U. 😎
 

XDU

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Ukraine was never a nation before it declared independence from the Soviet Union not in the name of its own culture, but in the name of maintaining communism before the people decided to decommunize their country. Before then, it was the homeland of Cossacks who declared allegiance to Imperial Russia to seek protection against oppressive aristocratic landowners in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

The problem is nobody knows the history of Ukraine, so people just take it for granted to be a nation-state in its own right for no good reason. It's a country that exists because of recognition by laziness, not recognition by legitimacy.
 

mrdeltoid

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And after the fall of the USSR, Ukraine would have been the world's fourth (I think) largest nuclear power. Ukraine willingly gave up the nukes located in their country for assurances from the west that we would have their back.

Time to pay the piper...
BINGO!! Thankyou Bill Clinton
 

Juin

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And after the fall of the USSR, Ukraine would have been the world's fourth (I think) largest nuclear power. Ukraine willingly gave up the nukes located in their country for assurances from the west that we would have their back.

Time to pay the piper...


History is full of what ifs. Belarus would also have been a nuclear power. Kazhakhstan as well. Maybe Armenia, if Russia lent a few to a fellow ex Soviet.

And if Soviet Russians also knew Nato would be gobbling up Warsaw Pact States and ringing Russia in an iron grip, maybe the end would have been totally different.
 

mrjurrs

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History is full of what ifs. Belarus would also have been a nuclear power. Kazhakhstan as well. Maybe Armenia, if Russia lent a few to a fellow ex Soviet.

And if Soviet Russians also knew Nato would be gobbling up Warsaw Pact States and ringing Russia in an iron grip, maybe the end would have been totally different.
First, Ukraine was, not might become. Second, what if's mean shite.
Third, nothing would have changed. The USSR collapsed because it was unable to stand on its own. Do you mean the collapsing USSR would have defaulted to nuclear Armageddon? I don't think so, they weren't paying the soldiers sitting at the controls by then.
 
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