Do You Believe We're Not Going to Fight Them Here?

[southern_liberal]

Yet....his name isn't "Navy Pride_conservative."

What is yours? "Southern_liberal?"

Partisan slavery is alive and well on both sides and one doesn't have to hail from a Party to spew it. Both sides are our problem.

Your right. But I'm pointing out facts and all I ask of him is to address them. Yes I'm a liberal, and I can also back up what I believe in. I'm just asking NP to negate my arguments. Since I'm a liberal, I have the capacity to change my mind if I'm presented with logical or factual statements. But spewing Dubya's talking points isn't helping the debate.

 

[southern_liberal]

What are you doing? What is the purpose of this?

There is no way to prove what is happening behind closed doors. There is no way to prove what our international spy network is doing aside from the very little that has been released. There is no way to prove what intel we have received from the Muslim world that has actively allowed us to chase down terrorists aside from what little has been released. There is no way to prove what U.S. Marines and soldiers are doing inside Bosnia and what CIA agents are doing in Pakistan. There is no way to prove what wire tapping has done to help us capture or chase down terrorists and their suporters aside from what little has been released.

If such information were of public knowledge it would make it that much more difficult to track down and neutralize these individiauls who have the will to destroy for their god. And even if said information was released to the public (and our enemies), people like you would look for the negative spin on it. Some people's only strength is to over dramatize and cry that their rights are being violated, because they can't know every single detail that protects their ungreatful little lives. Some could care less about their securities, because clinging to the outside prospect that their phone calls are being listened to by from Republican sponsership and not Democratic when President Clinton did it, is more important.

If you are going to call someone a "Bush apologist" then you have to acknowledge that you are simply a "Bush hater" and are acting just as narrow minded. The truth is that Bush has done a good job considering that he has no opposition to keep him balanced and that 9/11 slapped this government in the face (despite two decades of warnings). The Democrats can't complain about everything that comes out of the White House without producing practical plans and expect their favorable turnout. Criticism without alternatives is not constructive...it's damaging.

Your right. I totally agree with you. Since there is no way to know what Dubya is doing, conservatives have no evidence to support their theory that Bush is the reason we haven't been attacked. Therefore, my theories still stand.

Like I said, there could be any number of reasons why we haven't been attacked, and a lot of them probably have nothing to do with Bush. It is interesting that we have not been attacked again; it's not like Al-queda don't have an open opportunity with our ports and boarder situation. If Bush really wants me to believe he is protecting me, he needs to do what's in my best interest and secure or boarders and ports, then I will feel like he really cares about keeping me safe.

I would like to make one correction though. I was with Bush when he made his speech on the wreckage of the twin towers. I was with bush when he decided that the Taliban was an obstruction to bringing justice to the one person that did pose a threat to us. But then came Iraq. A war on a country that wasn't a training ground for terrorists that wanted to attack us until we invaded. A country that has sucked up so many resources that could have gotten us closer to finding our real threat in Afghanistan. And finally a country thats has become a huge mess we can't get out of.

Democrats don't have a policy you say? How can they execute a position with the neocons in control of the legislature and the white house? Futhermore, since the Republicans are in control, this mess fall squarely on their shoulders to figure out and get us out of the hopeless situation called Iraq.

The Democrats and 60% of this nation knows that this war was a mistake. I just hope it's not to late.

 

[MSgt]

Since I'm a liberal, I have the capacity to change my mind if I'm presented with logical or factual statements.

This implies that Conservatives lack the ability to assess a situation and change view points. This is more of that narrow mindedness mentality you are accusing Navy Pride of.

I'm just saying.

 

[MSgt]

Democrats don't have a policy you say? How can they execute a position with the neocons in control of the legislature and the white house? Futhermore, since the Republicans are in control, this mess fall squarely on their shoulders to figure out and get us out of the hopeless situation called Iraq.

This is an excuse to criticize. Even the Democrats last candidate for the Presidency had no plan and tried to dance the fence.

The Democrats and 60% of this nation knows that this war was a mistake. I just hope it's not to late.

The vast majority of this country is completely clueless as to what is happening outside our borders. Their opinions about what they "know" changes with the breeze.

Too late for what? To go back in time?

 

[Iriemon]

So you want "bruising" to mean "mass murder?" Am I the only one reading this rediculous post? You accuse me of having "no guts," because I won't write what you want my words to mean on an Internet site? How petty are you? The only "mass murder" you will see will be in the future if we have to fight Radical Islam with nuclear missiles. Of all my thousands of posts, in which all have read, you are the only one that keeps badgering me to distort the meanings into what you want to read. It all goes back to the time you couldn't fathom "take the gloves off" with regards to obvious offenders. I believe you needed that explained to you as well.

You obviously have yet to contribute at all since post 1, except for the sarcastic criticism of other peoples thoughts and writings (as you run around and pretend to be on some hieghtened platform of morality while the rest of us get dirty in the real world). Like I said..."stick to Dr. Seuss."

Alright alright -- LOL -- the "bruising" is what we will endure. I misread your post -- I'll take back the mass murder comment

 

[southern_liberal]

This implies that Conservatives lack the ability to assess a situation and change view points. This is more of that narrow mindedness mentality you are accusing Navy Pride of.

I'm just saying.

I'm just saying I have no problem with saying I'm wrong if I am. Many on the extreme right, from my experiences do (i.e. George Bush).

Notice that I'm speaking from my experience; I don't know all the right wing extremist in this nation so I can't speak for them. Navy Pride strikes me as one of those right wing extremists that can't think outside his little box. And I'm still waiting on him to respond to my original post.

 

[26 X World Champs]

Its easy for you to say that since your life is not one the line.......If it was you would give up every civil liberty you had to save it.........So would we all my ACLU friend.....

If we did as you wrote Navy America would be no more. Your solution is the cowardly one but I would not expect you to be able to intellecualize civil liberties since you do not respect or believe in them. You sir are the model 1984 citizen.

 

[southern_liberal]

This is an excuse to criticize. Even the Democrats last candidate for the Presidency had no plan and tried to dance the fence.



The vast majority of this country is completely clueless as to what is happening outside our borders. Their opinions about what they "know" changes with the breeze.

Too late for what? To go back in time?

I hope it's not to late for this mess your president got us in to be resolved with America still having any standing in the international community, to restore the authority of the presidency so that rouge nations don't feel it's open season to rattle their sabers, to bring this country together again instead of us dividing ourselves between red and blue. To command respect again from people who are our allies, and many other things.....

And Kerry had a plan. a very basic one that would have worked wonders...

He was going to go to our allies and say "the former leader of this country was arrogant and thought brute American force could reslove any conflicts immediately. But I'm here to ask your help in building a real, meaningful coalition to stop Iraq from descending into further chaos" not his exact words of course, but that was the crux of his plan. But of course you president just can't bring himself to do that, and that is why we are still in this mess by ourselves.

As for that time travel comment, I expect more from you. I would expect a comment like that to come from Navy Pride and a few others that haven't entered this debate yet.

 

[26 X World Champs]

What you liberals fail to grasp is Radical Islam hates us. They don't want to kiss and make up....They want to kill us.

WHAT YOU NAVY PRIDE FAIL TO GRASP (note that I am not lumping the entire radical right into your nutty comments?) is that Bush's policies have made "Radical Islam" hate us more than ever before and have made them more determined the ever to kill us....that's the Bush Doctrine.

I find it remarkeable that you are so blind to the truth and that no matter what anyone writes here your point of view will never change despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Hell, you don't even respond directly to people's posts instead you simply jot down one of your many stereotyped catch phrase replies...your posts are like the movie GROUNDHOG DAY.

 

[MSgt]

I hope it's not to late for this mess your president got us in to be resolved with America still having any standing in the international community, to restore the authority of the presidency so that rouge nations don't feel it's open season to rattle their sabers, to bring this country together again instead of us dividing ourselves between red and blue. To command respect again from people who are our allies, and many other things.....

And Kerry had a plan. a very basic one that would have worked wonders...

He was going to go to our allies and say "the former leader of this country was arrogant and thought brute American force could reslove any conflicts immediately. But I'm here to ask your help in building a real, meaningful coalition to stop Iraq from descending into further chaos" not his exact words of course, but that was the crux of his plan. But of course you president just can't bring himself to do that, and that is why we are still in this mess by ourselves.

As for that time travel comment, I expect more from you. I would expect a comment like that to come from Navy Pride and a few others that haven't entered this debate yet.

You lost me right from the start. President Bush is your President too. He is as much your President as President Clinton was mine. A debate that is based in Partisan bickering is worthless.

You are also being overly dramatic. The crux of his plan was non-existent. He merely tried to produce words, but ultimately even Democrats saw that he had no real agenda for a different approach. Merely stating that "we need a better coalition" would have solved nothing and hardly constitutes an alternate plan.

 

[Voidwar]

Bush's policies have made "Radical Islam" hate us more than ever before

This is hogwash. They hated us 100% already.

 

[MSgt]

You people that need to see if Bush is protecting you should check this out...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...ed-us-tapping-internatl-calls.html#post366429



http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1225453,00.html

 

[MSgt]

is that Bush's policies have made "Radical Islam" hate us more than ever before and have made them more determined the ever to kill us....that's the Bush Doctrine.

This is erronious. They hate us today as they hated us in 1999. Today they only have gained the will to act on their hate. The entire position that we should sit by as 9/11s occur out of fear of antagonizing them is suicide. We either face them and deal with them..or we accept our role as victim.

Merely chasing down terrorists as they "pull triggers" and kill Americans is useless without addressing the environment in which they breed.

 

[Voidwar]

People who get angry with you when you fight your enemies, ARE your enemies.

 

[26 X World Champs]

This is hogwash. They hated us 100% already.

Yes, those that hated us did so 100%...the problem is that Bush's policies have created many, many more of those that hate us 100% and that is the sick reality of his administration!

Bush's down more for the recruiting of Anti-Americanism than all Presidents before him and this will be his legacy. Let's hope and pray that whoever is next elected President will be smarter and saner than Bush and will understand the need to again make America the standard for ethics and morality...two words that have been erased by Bush...ironic since he claims to be a Born Again Christian...just another example of his hypocrisy and of his lack of ability.

It used to be "Uncle Sam Wants You" as the US military recruiting poster....now that same slogan is being used by our enemies to recruit new legions of America haters on a scale never before seen....thank you President Bush!

 

[southern_liberal]

You lost me right from the start. President Bush is your President too. He is as much your President as President Clinton was mine. A debate that is based in Partisan bickering is worthless.

You are also being overly dramatic. The crux of his plan was non-existent. He merely tried to produce words, but ultimately even Democrats saw that he had no real agenda for a different approach. Merely stating that "we need a better coalition" would have solved nothing and hardly constitutes an alternate plan.

He's the president of my country; I personally find it hard to claim him in any way. Now with that we have established that distinction:

wheather or not I'm being overly dramatic is your opinion just like your belief that a meaningful coalition would not have helped is also your opinion, and it's not my job to try and change them. However, I do ask that you ponder on what may have been if we had a true coalition to go into Iraq, with enough troops to stabilize the country. That is all I ask.

 

[Voidwar]

Yes, those that hated us did so 100%...the problem is that Bush's policies have created many, many more of those that hate us 100% and that is the sick reality of his administration!

Your reasoning is specious, as people who get mad at you for fighting your enemies, already ARE your enemies.

 

[southern_liberal]

This is hogwash. They hated us 100% already.

How about now 200% since Bush took office. Percentages don't stop at 100.

 

[Symmetrical_Argument]

We in the UK have soldiers in Iraq.
We have been attacked during this period.
56 murdered in London last year by suicide bombers who sited the British presence in Iraq as part of the reason they bombed us on 7/7.
Is the war in Iraq helping in the war on terror ?
Say no more. It's obviously making things worse.
It helps ferment hatred for the west.
There are potentially a billion Muslim terrorists around the world.
They are like a fermentation vessel.
What we are doing in Afganistan, in Iraq & in supporting Israel's disproportionate response in Lebanon, is tantamount to adding sugar to that fermentation vessel.
Mr Blair added some sugar to that vessel by being an adventurer in Iraq. Muslims see Iraqi Muslims on TV blown up by our weapons & like it or not, low & behold we wind up with home grown terrorists of our own from Leeds in the UK.
Potential terrorists are everywhere.
Not just in that less than 1% of the earth's surface known as Iraq & Afganistan.
People that think the escapade/fiasco in Iraq is fighting terror, that incidently has resulted in almost another 911's worth of US deaths, simply don't understand population dynamics & they are not thinking logically or scientifically in terms of cause & effect.
Namely how, where & why the population levels of the species known as 'Al Queda terrorist' are on the rise.
Hundreds of $billions & nearly 3000 US deaths later, people still argue in favour of the Iraqi war as worthwhile in the 'war on terror'.
Unbelievable !

 

[Voidwar]

Percentages don't stop at 100.

LOL head on back to remedial math chief . . . :rofl

 

[26 X World Champs]

Your reasoning is specious, as people who get mad at you for fighting your enemies, already ARE your enemies.

BULLSHIT ALERT! BULLSHIT ALERT! Which radio talking head put that little tidbit into your memory banks? Your reasoning is absurd. Bush's policies have created many, many new enemies from where there were not already there. What you just wrote is the equivalent on the BULLSHIT METER as the basis of this thread, you know, "We're fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here." That's the same as writing:

people who get mad at you for fighting your enemies, already ARE your enemies.

 

[Navy Pride]

Well said, very well said.

Its really easy to sit behind your computer and say bravado things but when push comes to shove and you have to put your life on the line we know what Liberals like you like to do.............Cut and Run..........You would give up a few od those civil liberties in a heartbeat to save your life........

 

[Navy Pride]

This poll is ridiculous and worded wrong...........


The question should have been: Do you believe that fighting the terrorists in Iraq is helping to prevent terroist attacks here.............

I should have known that Champs would make a slanted poll...........

Of course it never going to prevent all atacks forever here..........

 

[Iriemon]

This poll is ridiculous and worded wrong...........

ROTFLMFAO!!!! :2rofll: :2rofll: Classic!

 

[Navy Pride]

ROTFLMFAO!!!! :2rofll: :2rofll: Classic!

I am not surprised that you would like the slanted wording...........Worded that way almost everyone would take option two and that is what is happening...........