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Do you believe democratic elections in Iraq were a harbringer of the Arab Spring?

Do you believe democratic elections in Iraq were a harbringer of the Arab Spring?


  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .
I mean maybe, but there was a definite lag between democracy in Iraq and everywhere. So, I do not really know.
 
No. When it comes to the actions of the protesters in Tunisia, I highly doubt that they took the events going on in Iraq more into account than the events that were going on in their own country. The Arab Spring was pretty much spontaneous. I believe there was a domino effect, but it started in Tunisia, not Iraq.

I believe that both people who say that Bush destabilized the region by going into Iraq, and people who say that Iraqi elections inspired the Arab Spring, are incorrect. Social unrest, being fed up with dictatorships, food prices going through the roof, high unemployment, the use of social media, all of these factors contributed way more to the bubble bursting than what was happening in Iraq.
 
There were groups in Tunisia working on creating a movement similar to the Rose revolution, the Orange revolution in that country (funded by the same groups NED and Open Society Institute). What they were lacking was the spark to create a mass movement in which the the movement could operate within. That spark was the self immolation of a street vendor and the poor economic conditions within Tunisia for a large segment of the population. The lack of a strong crackdown on the protestors in Tunisia most likely inspired the other movements in the other countries.

I strongly doubt that most Arab in the countries experiencing an arab spring would have wanted to go the route of Iraq. Massive invasion, creating in effect a civil war and the deaths of tens of thousands, the creation of 4 million refugees to become a democratic state.

So no Iraq was not in my opinion the inspiration. The inspiration would have been the generally nonviolent revolutions of Georgia, the Ukraine specifically and perhaps to a lesser extent the Cedar revolution of Lebanon.
 
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The notion that there is a democracy in Iraq is laughable. The two main parties are composed of the Shia pro-Iranian, pro-Moullah Dawa and the Shia INM parading itself as a secular party. Iraqi politics are a game of Which Shia Can Stay In Power This Week.
 
Compared to life under Saddam, Iraq is like Sweden. There was a genocidal dictator and now they vote (even the women!). Do try to keep some context.
 
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I believe you are so right with all you posted above here, but I would like to add that I truly believe that The Bush Invasion had a major role in getting the Show of Shock And Awe on the road that lead to what we are witnessing today in the Middle East and the growing Anti-American Sentiments in the entire region...
Shock And Awe has become Shock And Awful and should after 10 YEARS OF OCCUPATION LEAD TO " SHOCK AND LEAVE " OR " PACK UP AND GET OUT " !!!!
 
If anything, I'm of the opinion that the Arab Spring in Tunisia was ignited IN SPITE of what was going on in Iraq, rather than because of it. I have a hard time believing that Tunisian commoners looked towards Iraq and said, "Hey, look that's the example we want to follow!"
 
The Arabs only want TWO things: Islamic theocracy and BLOOD.
 
The Arabs only want TWO things: Islamic theocracy and BLOOD.

Seriously man...you GOTS to be a joke.

Anyways, I think Bush in his own little way helped the middle east but in the very very long run. In the short term he made it a worse place and he and his policies which are now many of Obama's help create more hatred towards us. That said, I think the invasion of Iraqi and Afghanistan to reform them made a lot of countries nervous, and that with the combination of Wikileaks information, Al-Jazeera, Facebook, and Twitter helped create this surge of people rising up in these countries.
 
No. First of all, Iraq is not a democracy by any stretch of the imagination. It's an unstable basket case where elections occasionally occur. Second of all, regardless of Iraq's status as a democracy, who the hell would look at the conditions in Iraq and think "that's the country we should be emulating"? Least of all the people of Tunisia who started this, who are far better off than Iraqis.
 
No. When it comes to the actions of the protesters in Tunisia, I highly doubt that they took the events going on in Iraq more into account than the events that were going on in their own country. The Arab Spring was pretty much spontaneous. I believe there was a domino effect, but it started in Tunisia, not Iraq.

I believe that both people who say that Bush destabilized the region by going into Iraq, and people who say that Iraqi elections inspired the Arab Spring, are incorrect. Social unrest, being fed up with dictatorships, food prices going through the roof, high unemployment, the use of social media, all of these factors contributed way more to the bubble bursting than what was happening in Iraq.

But you don't think that people in Tunisia, Egypt and other countries, when looking at their own problems, they also considered that the people in Iraq could also choose their own leaders and though that system is imperfect, they have far more recourse than we do to protest their situation?

I personally believe that watching Iraqis voting combined with their own problems caused by the lack of such rights as well as growing global issues, including food prices, combined to bring this about.
 
The notion that there is a democracy in Iraq is laughable. The two main parties are composed of the Shia pro-Iranian, pro-Moullah Dawa and the Shia INM parading itself as a secular party. Iraqi politics are a game of Which Shia Can Stay In Power This Week.

well, when you consider that Iraq is mostly Shi'a, what is undemocratic about that?

I didn't say Iraq was a perfect democracy, but the people there actually DO have the franchise and a choice, which is something no other Arab state (except for Lebanon) could truly say.
 
No. First of all, Iraq is not a democracy by any stretch of the imagination. It's an unstable basket case where elections occasionally occur. Second of all, regardless of Iraq's status as a democracy, who the hell would look at the conditions in Iraq and think "that's the country we should be emulating"? Least of all the people of Tunisia who started this, who are far better off than Iraqis.

Considering what they have to transition from, why would anybody expect them to be stable at this point in a young democracy? Sometimes the on-demand attitude of everybody regarding geo-politics astounds me.
 
But you don't think that people in Tunisia, Egypt and other countries, when looking at their own problems, they also considered that the people in Iraq could also choose their own leaders and though that system is imperfect, they have far more recourse than we do to protest their situation?

I personally believe that watching Iraqis voting combined with their own problems caused by the lack of such rights as well as growing global issues, including food prices, combined to bring this about.

Why Iraqis

Why not Georgians, Ukrainians etc who undertook very similar actions to get rid of rather undemocratic governments
 
Read the question and answer.

Do you believe democratic elections in Iraq were a harbringer of the Arab Spring of 2011?

Explain...

Well - expound on what you mean by "Arab Spring" first and then I'll form an opinion to present to you. . . I've heard that RE many different things.
 
Then again, the Red Cross also wants blood... what is so bad about wanting blood? :mrgreen:

They actually won't take my blood. They said it has too much Yankee hatred in it.
 
I think it could only be viewed that way for an American perspective. It hushed the dissent about the possibility of democracy in the Middle East.
 
Considering what they have to transition from, why would anybody expect them to be stable at this point in a young democracy?

I don't "expect" much of anything. Iraq is pretty much right where I expected (warned) it would be.

WI Crippler said:
Sometimes the on-demand attitude of everybody regarding geo-politics astounds me.

It's certainly not in any condition that most other Arab states would want to follow its example right now. If Iraq became a shining liberal democracy 30 years from now and THEN the other Arab states revolted, well, then you could probably make a stronger argument that they wanted the same thing that Iraq had. But as of now? Of course not. Anyone who looks at the conditions in "democratic Iraq" today can see that it's a spectacular failure in just about every way possible, and hardly an inspiration to anyone.
 
But you don't think that people in Tunisia, Egypt and other countries, when looking at their own problems, they also considered that the people in Iraq could also choose their own leaders and though that system is imperfect, they have far more recourse than we do to protest their situation?

I personally believe that watching Iraqis voting combined with their own problems caused by the lack of such rights as well as growing global issues, including food prices, combined to bring this about.

Eh. It could be argued that Iraq actually was detrimental to the Arab spring. The Iraqi government is one of the least competent administrations seen in the Middle East in a very long time. They cannot even agree upon who to give cabinet positions to much less fix the basic services Iraqis need. Furthermore, the democratic process highlighted just how sectarian divisions within a country can cause massive chaos. Not to mention that Iraq is one of the least homogeneous populations in the Middle East. As for more recourse, that depends who you ask.

If anything, Israel's recent conviction and imprisonment of its former leaders has more impact. If the hated Jews have more capacity to enforce accountability on their government, that's just downright embarrassing to Arabs who consider themselves superior.
 
Why Iraqis

Why not Georgians, Ukrainians etc who undertook very similar actions to get rid of rather undemocratic governments

Because there is a common identity as Arabs and it was broadcast pretty prominently on Al Jazerra and other Arab news channels in many of those countries...
 
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