Do We Need National Health Care?

[DeeJayH]

Firstly my main contrast, the ROC, is not a communist state.
Secondly, regardless of how you attempt to :spin: it, bottom line is, even when the PRC, which is communist by name alone, provides universal health care for it's populice yet still has a economy growing at an unprecidented pace. That pretty much socks a big hole in your ignorant idea that socialized medicine doesn't work.

i am sure that is great comfort to the impoverished chineese working in the rice patties
I am sure they have great free healthcare in the middle of no-where rural china where poverty is passed down from generation to generation:roll:

 

[DeeJayH]

No that's not why at all. The reason why the real problem of overcharging inssurance companies is not being fought against is because of the tremendous capital these companies wield at the policy makers.
Then fundamentalist conservatives tag UHC as old world communist rhetoric not unlike what you are spewing here.
Ignorance is bliss

so wrong......Again

one of the main reaons health insurance is so costly is because each state has different regulations causing massive amounts of variances in offered programs from state to state
if however every state got the same, multi-tiered option of various levels of coverage and benefits, costs for the insurance companies would drop dramatically.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

I was listening to "Nightcall" with Peter Werbe on WRIF; a Detroit radio station. I could not believe me ears. This is the fundamental problem with these kinds of debates. In response to the recent saying "Nobody owes you a living" Werbe claimed that was false...that our government or those in power do owe everyone else a living. Until that attitude is changed there can never be a real debate on this type of subject. Even back during the campaign I saw Chris Matthews actually snicker when he realized & then pointed out the difference between dems & reps on college campuses: the difference being that the dems were not shy about asking what the government was going to do for them - while reps just wanted to be left alone & have less interference in their daily lives.

 

[DeeJayH]

I was listening to "Nightcall" with Peter Werbe on WRIF; a Detroit radio station. I could not believe me ears. This is the fundamental problem with these kinds of debates. In response to the recent saying "Nobody owes you a living" Werbe claimed that was false...that our government or those in power do owe everyone else a living. Until that attitude is changed there can never be a real debate on this type of subject. Even back during the campaign I saw Chris Matthews actually snicker when he realized & then pointed out the difference between dems & reps on college campuses: the difference being that the dems were not shy about asking what the government was going to do for them - while reps just wanted to be left alone & have less interference in their daily lives.

:applaud
cant wait to see how the looney left tears into this fabulous post

 

[Navy Pride]

I was listening to "Nightcall" with Peter Werbe on WRIF; a Detroit radio station. I could not believe me ears. This is the fundamental problem with these kinds of debates. In response to the recent saying "Nobody owes you a living" Werbe claimed that was false...that our government or those in power do owe everyone else a living. Until that attitude is changed there can never be a real debate on this type of subject. Even back during the campaign I saw Chris Matthews actually snicker when he realized & then pointed out the difference between dems & reps on college campuses: the difference being that the dems were not shy about asking what the government was going to do for them - while reps just wanted to be left alone & have less interference in their daily lives.

Like a real democrat once (and there are very few of them left) said..."Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

How quickly nowaday dems have forgot that statement.............

 

[Kelzie]

:applaud
cant wait to see how the looney left tears into this fabulous post

Hey. Watch who you're calling looney hun. :2wave:

 

[Indy]

Wow, how quickly a debate can digress into nothing more than name calling. What happend to our great discussion we were having? A couple of bad seeds join this thread and all of a sudden we stop acting civil?

 

[Navy Pride]

Wow, how quickly a debate can digress into nothing more than name calling. What happend to our great discussion we were having? A couple of bad seeds join this thread and all of a sudden we stop acting civil?

Huh.......... bad seeds, is that not name calling? He who lives in glass houses should not throw stones..........

 

[DeeJayH]

Hey. Watch who you're calling looney hun. :2wave:

&

Wow, how quickly a debate can digress into nothing more than name calling. What happend to our great discussion we were having? A couple of bad seeds join this thread and all of a sudden we stop acting civil?

since neither of you have not tried to debunk what was posted, i can assume you guys are not part of the looney left
but you all know about assuming
and i am sure someone(s) will come along and try to tear it apart, and fail

 

[Blue Collar Joe]

That is one of the biggest reasons I am against any sort of NHC. Social Security was meant to be a stipend to a retirement that someone put away. Now? People expect it to be their retirement.
Welfare was supposed to be a safety net for when someone fell on hard times. Now? It's the nations largest hammock.
No, any time you give someone something, they have this bizarre idea that it is theirs from then on, and by God, those with money should be punished so I can sit on my fat a$$ on my couch watching TV waiting on someone to knock on my door and offer me that great job...of course, winning the lottery would be nice too...
(Thats sarcasm for those that don't know, but I do know quite a few people on welfare with that exact mindset.)

 

[kmhowe72]

My daughter is on A state health insurence, my husband work insurence does cover the cost of braces or surgeries. So yes we need a NHC aleast for the childen, who have physical difficulties. And older americans that have med. insurence and the end up either skid roe, or an healthy apartment, or nursing home.

 

[Goobieman]

My daughter is on A state health insurence, my husband work insurence does cover the cost of braces or surgeries. So yes we need a NHC aleast for the childen, who have physical difficulties. And older americans that have med. insurence and the end up either skid roe, or an healthy apartment, or nursing home.

Why should I have to pay for your kid's braces?

 

[Blue Collar Joe]

My daughter is on A state health insurence, my husband work insurence does cover the cost of braces or surgeries. So yes we need a NHC aleast for the childen, who have physical difficulties. And older americans that have med. insurence and the end up either skid roe, or an healthy apartment, or nursing home.

Those with physical difficulties get medicaide, at our expense. The tax payers foot the bill. And no insult meant to you or your daughter, but it isn not my or anyone elses responsibility to pay for their health care.
NHC is not a right. And that is the most annoying thing about it. Everyone who cannot afford health care, screams bloody murder about how they have a right for it, and when asked how they can pay for it, they point across the aisle at those who pay the taxes yet again, saying lets just punish those who provide for their own.

 

[kmhowe72]

Hay Heartless wonder because if she doesn't have one she will die. Why should pay money for when retire. if you ever get in a nursing home. Thats tough if you don't like it it's going to be done. ahahah !

 

[Ivan The Terrible]

kmhowe72,

Hay Heartless wonder because if she doesn't have one she will die. Why should pay money for when retire. if you ever get in a nursing home. Thats tough if you don't like it it's going to be done. ahahah !

What is this?

 

[Goobieman]

Hay Heartless wonder because if she doesn't have one she will die. Why should pay money for when retire. if you ever get in a nursing home. Thats tough if you don't like it it's going to be done. ahahah !

Your kid will die if he doesnt have braces?

Your kid's braces arent my responsibility -- they're yours.

 

[Blue Collar Joe]

Hay Heartless wonder because if she doesn't have one she will die. Why should pay money for when retire. if you ever get in a nursing home. Thats tough if you don't like it it's going to be done. ahahah !

Well, I never knew braces were fatal. Hospitals also have a form that can be filled out by those who cannot afford the surgery, and, once again, we pick up the tab for it. Weeeee. But that is cool, in life threatening situations.
Next time you want to insult someone, put all your information down, or make up better stories one. This post completely contradicts your previous one.

 

[Indy]

since neither of you have not tried to debunk what was posted, i can assume you guys are not part of the looney left
but you all know about assuming
and i am sure someone(s) will come along and try to tear it apart, and fail

Could you please reiterate what was posted that you want us to try to debunk. Forgive me, but there are alot of posts on this thread and I'm confused as to which one you are talking about

 

[DeeJayH]

debunk away pollock

I was listening to "Nightcall" with Peter Werbe on WRIF; a Detroit radio station. I could not believe me ears. This is the fundamental problem with these kinds of debates. In response to the recent saying "Nobody owes you a living" Werbe claimed that was false...that our government or those in power do owe everyone else a living. Until that attitude is changed there can never be a real debate on this type of subject. Even back during the campaign I saw Chris Matthews actually snicker when he realized & then pointed out the difference between dems & reps on college campuses: the difference being that the dems were not shy about asking what the government was going to do for them - while reps just wanted to be left alone & have less interference in their daily lives.

funny how france is rioting over a very similar situation
they actually beleive they should not have to earn their job
they think they should have a single job for life
and should work whenever they feel like it
not too mention the short work week and ridiculous amount of vacation time

change your ways or go down in flames France

 

[Indy]

debunk away pollock



funny how france is rioting over a very similar situation
they actually beleive they should not have to earn their job
they think they should have a single job for life
and should work whenever they feel like it
not too mention the short work week and ridiculous amount of vacation time

change your ways or go down in flames France

Hmm... well for one I don't believe that what he claimed IS the difference between dems and reps. I know plenty of reps who want NHC and plenty of dems who don't. Also if we are going to start poking fingers, it seems to me that lately REPS don't want a smaller gov't to leave them alone. REPS have started asking for bigger gov't telling others how they should live their lives and what we can and can't do with them (i.e. gay marriage, terri schiavo, Iraq, 10 commandments displayed in courthouses, teaching intelligent design in schools, etc.). I do agree that nobody owes anybody else a living. That is not what this NHC debate is about. People who do want a NHC are willing to pay for it, they just are trying to find ways that will be cheaper for everybody to do so. Paying in taxes is no different than paying to an insurance company. I agree that it is not fair to charge a percentage of income for NHC since not everybody makes the same amount. I do however think that it would be fair to charge a percentage of income up until a certain set amount is paid, then you would be covered. Meaning, If I only make 15,000 a year then I will pay out say 5% of income (this is just a made up number so don't quote this percentage) for my NHC coverage. But if I make 100,000 a year then I will pay 5% up untill I have paid out say 5k or so for that year (once again this is a made up number). Now, this set number should be just a tad higher than what it costs for me to be covered, and that extra money that I paid into it should go to help those who can't cover their entire share. That way you would be helping out your fellow man, but you won't be completely supporting them either. Like I said, those of us who want NHC are willing to pay for it, its just people who are completely against it who are using that as an argument. Instead of just griping about how much is sucks, why don't we all throw out ideas that can be used to improve it so that it would be fair for all?

Also, your comments about France are way off. If you don't like France that is fine, you are entitled to your Nationonalism beliefs. However, I do ask that you make an argument that is based on facts, to prevent you from looking underinformed on the issue. perhaps you should direct your responses to the appropriate thread for that discussion?

 

[taxedout]

This is total BS. Academia works for the progression of knowledge, industry works for profit. You don't think that an academic works h/er butt of everyday in order to find more grant money to support thier work? Without academia progressing the knowledge front, industry would be stuck dead end.
Look at all that has come out from academia. It may seem that academia is not "working thier butt off" because academia is only concerned with the progression of knowledge and not material product. However without that knowledge there would be no real world applications.
Academic persuits are lightyears ahead of industry in knowledge, making it difficult for the non-academic to understand because s/he does not have the comprehension to understand the significance of it.
You can open up as many industries, private clinics as you want. But if there was no Louis Pasteur you'd have no vaccinations; without Alexander Flemming you'd never have had penicillin; without Thomas Edison, there'd be no lightbulb, and without Nikolav Tesla there'd be no A.C. power.
Every modern technology around is the direct result of a knobel academic with the curiosity and stamina to push forth the envelope of knowledge for little more then support for h/er research.
Clearly you are out of touch with reality.

When you have the slightest idea what you are talking about, please get back to us. Idealistic daydreaming doesn't count.

 

[alphieb]

When you have the slightest idea what you are talking about, please get back to us. Idealistic daydreaming doesn't count.

He knows exactly what he is talking about, YOU need to read and learn.

 

[taxedout]

Academics work just as hard as private practioners but make 1/2 the salary. An attending has to round and lay hands on every single patient a resident and intern admits now. (laws have changed in the last five years.) A note has to be written by hand by that attending or it is medical fraud. This of course leaves less time to be in the clinic seeing hard referrral cases and doing basic benchwork research inthe lab . (That's why some waits are many months for a specialist at Emory or MCG)

Most work over 85 to 95 hours a week like private practioners but unlike private practice are not compensated well.

There is no comparrison in the ammount of patients a private guy can take care of compared to the academic guys. They are the grunt workers. They rely on productivity to make a living. They don't have residents doing their scut work for them. Any comparison of the ammount of patient care either can deliver in a day, is pure folly. When the private practicioners start working at the pace of their academic piers, wait and see how long you will wait to be seen.

The bulk of patient care in this country is done by private practice docs.
If you think they will be working late for you, after their salaries have been cut in half, you really are hopelessly idealistic.

 

[taxedout]

He knows exactly what he is talking about, YOU need to read and learn.

No, he is completely off base, and so are you.

Most of the medical break through therapies and devises of modern medical practice are a product of private industry.
Medicinal chemistry is largely a product of industry.
Modern immaging technologies are a product of industry.
Modern surgical technologies that make simple outpatient procedures of once
large debilitating surgeries, are largely a result of industry.
Modern prosthetic technologies are largely a result of industry.
Implantable pacing and defibrillating devises are a product of industry.
Synthetic blood factor technologies are a product of industry.
Percutaneous coronary interventional technologies are a product of industry.

The private docs see and treat the majority of patients in this country.


Tell me, what is it you have read that gives you such knowledge on the
topic ?

 

[Synch]

Yeah man, let them all die the freakin leeches and bloodsuckers!

Oh - time for church brb. :roll:

Don't generalize all Republicans with the religious sect, I don't generalize all liberals as poor hispanics or blacks.

National health care would only further burden the system and cost taxpayers billions more since national means free = squeezing our middle class and the rich and give free attention to illegals.