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Do We Need National Health Care?

Do We Need National Health Care?


  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .

Goobieman

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alphieb said:
You missed my point entirely or pretended to.

No. I didn't.

You think its OK for the government to ignore the fact it doesnt have the power to do something when its something YOU think is a good idea, but then complain when it ignores thate fact that it doesnt have the power to do something when YOu think is NOT a good idea.

I ask again:
The government does not have the power granted to it by the Constitution to enact anything regarding health care. Do you or do you not want the government to do things it doesnt have the power to do just because you/it thinks it's a good idea?
 

alphieb

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Goobieman said:
No. I didn't.

You think its OK for the government to ignore the fact it doesnt have the power to do something when its something YOU think is a good idea, but then complain when it ignores thate fact that it doesnt have the power to do something when YOu think is NOT a good idea.

I ask again:
The government does not have the power granted to it by the Constitution to enact anything regarding health care. Do you or do you not want the government to do things it doesnt have the power to do just because you/it thinks it's a good idea?

What did I state that was not a good idea? There is a provision in the constitution that allows amending. The government has the power to do what they want and yes I think NHC is a good idea.
 

Goobieman

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alphieb said:
What did I state that was not a good idea?
What makes a "good" idea is subjective.
If you argue that the gvmnt should be able to do things that it doesnt have the power to do because you think its a good idea, then you have absoilutly NO leg to stand on to disagree when someone else makes the same argument.

And you havent answered the question:
Do you or do you not want the government to do things it doesnt have the power to do just because you/it thinks it's a good idea?

There is a provision in the constitution that allows amending
You havent said a thing about amending the Constitution until now.

The government has the power to do what they want
Including eavesdrop on international phone calls when one or both parties might be a terrorist?
I think that they do is is a good idea. I guess that's a good enough argument for you.
 

Calm2Chaos

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alphieb said:
You are merely speculating.........

Well everyone is.. so are you. Since we have no UH system in this country it is all speculation. Although I don't have to look far for support of my argument. Canada seems to suffer from much of what I stated in one form or another. And this is a country of 32,000,000 people in it as compared to the US with 290,000,000. This is also a country that does not have the internation demands on its government or it's economy that ours does. And yet with that they still are having problems. I have read that some say the system may fail. There are provinces in Canada paying as high as 47% on taxable income, I pay 30%.. Thats a pretty big jump for healthcare.. it doesn't cost me that much now.....
 

alphieb

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Goobieman said:
What makes a "good" idea is subjective.
If you argue that the gvmnt should be able to do things that it doesnt have the power to do because you think its a good idea, then you have absoilutly NO leg to stand on to disagree when someone else makes the same argument.

And you havent answered the question:
Do you or do you not want the government to do things it doesnt have the power to do just because you/it thinks it's a good idea?


You havent said a thing about amending the Constitution until now.


Including eavesdrop on international phone calls when one or both parties might be a terrorist?
I think that they do is is a good idea. I guess that's a good enough argument for you.

I did not state if I thought the wiretappings were a positive thing or not. I simply stated it was done. Futhermore, why do you think the bill of rights was created?
 

Goobieman

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alphieb said:
I did not state if I thought the wiretappings were a positive thing or not. I simply stated it was done. Futhermore, why do you think the bill of rights was created?

You are avoiding the question.
Do you or do you not want the government to do things it doesnt have the power to do just because you/it thinks it's a good idea?

If you do, then the bill of rights is irrelevant.
 

alphieb

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Calm2Chaos said:
Well everyone is.. so are you. Since we have no UH system in this country it is all speculation. Although I don't have to look far for support of my argument. Canada seems to suffer from much of what I stated in one form or another. And this is a country of 32,000,000 people in it as compared to the US with 290,000,000. This is also a country that does not have the internation demands on its government or it's economy that ours does. And yet with that they still are having problems. I have read that some say the system may fail. There are provinces in Canada paying as high as 47% on taxable income, I pay 30%.. Thats a pretty big jump for healthcare.. it doesn't cost me that much now.....

Our population is larger, hence the taxes would probably be smaller. It is a numbers game. If there system is failing then they need to figure out a way to make it work and not by Private HC.
 

alphieb

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Goobieman said:
You are avoiding the question.
Do you or do you not want the government to do things it doesnt have the power to do just because you/it thinks it's a good idea?

If you do, then the bill of rights is irrelevant.

I have answered the question, but I will say it again, YES, if it will benefit the American people......absolutely. That is why the bill of rights was created.
 

DeeJayH

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alphieb said:
No that has been the track record of the Bush Admin., remember Clinton had our budget balanced and he by the way, was for NHC.

Wrong
it was The repblican congress that had the balanced budget, not clinton
remember Contract with America by Newt Gingrich
 

Goobieman

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alphieb said:
I have answered the question, but I will say it again, YES, if it will benefit the American people......absolutely. That is why the bill of rights was created.

You don't seem to understand that if the limits placed on what governement can/can't do dont matter as long as whatever under contemplation is a "good idea" that will "benifit the American people", then the bill of rights - indeed, the constitution as a whole -- is meaningless.
 

Calm2Chaos

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alphieb said:
Our population is larger, hence the taxes would probably be smaller. It is a numbers game. If there system is failing then they need to figure out a way to make it work and not by Private HC.



Um.... NO...LOL

Sorry but one does not equal the other. All of the other demands on our system are not going to just dissapear. Sorry but unless you can prove to me that my taxes won't go up more then I pay now, and my service and or access to doctors and specialist will not decrease. That the medical research and drug research won't severely suffer. If they are possibilities then I see no reason for UH
 

alphieb

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Goobieman said:
You don't seem to understand that if the limits placed on what governement can/can't do dont matter as long as whatever under contemplation is a "good idea" that will "benifit the American people", then the bill of rights - indeed, the constitution as a whole -- is meaningless.

"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate. "

ENOUGH SAID
 

Goobieman

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alphieb said:
"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution

Ok... whats your point? We all know the Constitution can be amended.

But...your posts thus far have only tangentally referred to amending the Constitution, and amending the Constitution was certainly not part of your orignal post.

Maybe you should re-ask the question:
"Should the Constitution be amended to allow Congress to create a national Health Care System?"
 

Calm2Chaos

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This thread is definetly hurdling towards derailment...LOL
 

taxedout

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Originally Posted by alphieb
Our population is larger, hence the taxes would probably be smaller. It is a numbers game. If there system is failing then they need to figure out a way to make it work and not by Private HC.


Where did you ever get the idea that the government can figure out ways to make everything work ?


How about stop taking all of our money, then we can pay our own bills.
But then we wouldn't be dependent on them, would we?
 

alphieb

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Goobieman said:
Ok... whats your point? We all know the Constitution can be amended.

But...your posts thus far have only tangentally referred to amending the Constitution, and amending the Constitution was certainly not part of your orignal post.

Maybe you should re-ask the question:
"Should the Constitution be amended to allow Congress to create a national Health Care System?"

What difference does that make? I asked if it was needed and I believe it is. You brought up the constitution and I simply referred to it.
 

alphieb

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taxedout said:
Originally Posted by alphieb
Our population is larger, hence the taxes would probably be smaller. It is a numbers game. If there system is failing then they need to figure out a way to make it work and not by Private HC.


Where did you ever get the idea that the government can figure out ways to make everything work ?


How about stop taking all of our money, then we can pay our own bills.
But then we wouldn't be dependent on them, would we?

What are you talking about? I'm "taking your money" I don't think so.:roll: What is your point? It makes no sense.
 

alphieb

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Calm2Chaos said:
Um.... NO...LOL

Sorry but one does not equal the other. All of the other demands on our system are not going to just dissapear. Sorry but unless you can prove to me that my taxes won't go up more then I pay now, and my service and or access to doctors and specialist will not decrease. That the medical research and drug research won't severely suffer. If they are possibilities then I see no reason for UH

Sorry, but that 47% you were talking about is not just for HC. It includes everything, which I'm sure is more cost effective than private HC.
 

alphieb

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This is what you said that I simply responded to.....remember?????????

Goob SAID:::::::::::
Where, specifically, is the federal government granted the power to create any legislation regarding health care?
(Hint: you need to cite the US Constitution)
 

Goobieman

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alphieb said:
What difference does that make? I asked if it was needed and I believe it is. You brought up the constitution and I simply referred to it.
Right... and one of my several question sregarding the idea referenced the Constitution, directly - that is, how you plan to create such a thing when the Constitution does not allow it.

Your first response: Who cares - its a good idea!
Your second response: Amend the Constitution.
Fair enough. Good luck with that, by the way.


There are other questions that you haven't addressed:

Why do people think that the government should take care of everyone, all the time, regarding everything?

Why do people think that I, personally, am responsible for providing health care to complete strangers?

How do complete strangers have a right to MY money?
 

alphieb

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Goobieman said:
Right... and one of my several question sregarding the idea referenced the Constitution, directly - that is, how you plan to create such a thing when the Constitution does not allow it.

Your first response: Who cares - its a good idea!
Your second response: Amend the Constitution.
Fair enough. Good luck with that, by the way.


There are other questions that you haven't addressed:

Why do people think that the government should take care of everyone, all the time, regarding everything?

Why do people think that I, personally, am responsible for providing health care to complete strangers?

How do complete strangers have a right to MY money?


First of all, if the Democrats take over the house (highly probable) NC is inevitable. And Secondly, I have answered every single one of those questions.
 

alphieb

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First reply::::::
Oh OK, I guess we shall eliminate medicaid and medicare and the food stamp program etc, because that is not specified in the constitution either. Bush's wiretapping were against our constitution, but he did it anyway, didn't he. Why, to protect us............ We need to protect our people medically as well.
Very weak argument........Goob.
 

Goobieman

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alphieb said:
First of all, if the Democrats take over the house (highly probable) NC is inevitable. And Secondly, I have answered every single one of those questions.

No, you havent.

The 'answer' you gave them consisted of a question asked in return. You did not give a direct answer to the question.

And if the Dems do take over the house and so pass NHC w/o an amendment to that effect, will you support it or oppose it?
 

alphieb

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Second response:::::::
I have answered the question, but I will say it again, YES, if it will benefit the American people......absolutely. That is why the bill of rights was created.
 

Goobieman

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alphieb said:
First reply::::::
Oh OK, I guess we shall eliminate medicaid and medicare and the food stamp program etc, because that is not specified in the constitution either.
This isnt an answer to my question.
This is a deflection in an attempt to NOT answer the question.
 
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