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Do We Need National Health Care?

Do We Need National Health Care?


  • Total voters
    41
  • Poll closed .

DivineComedy

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alphieb said:
How exactly would it hurt our economy? Don't you think the millions filing medical bankruptcy and throwing in their credit cards with it is hurting our economy? How about those through the roof premiums? That is taking money out of pockets that could be put back into the economy instead of some greedy doctor's pocket.

DeeJayH may were responding to what I just posted, but I will respond to what you just posted.

I now agree the economy of it might be better, at least it would be fair.

I was always against such Universal Health Care type stuff because when I was in my early twenties I had a foreign socialist girlfriend that was thirty-two years old, she was on a waiting list for treatment for Cancer under her socialized system of medicine. She was a totally gorgeous former model and a Mensa member too, and could cook on top of it, not to mention the ..., so I was madly in love with her. She liked her system and hated ours, and I was so afraid for her; I argued that this system was better, and I lost her. What a laugh that argument sounds in my ears to me now!

First, do no harm, right? Years after I lost that socialist girlfriend I learned that salaried employees would get Lithostar, “oh, what is that like boss,” while the hourly employees at the top of the wage scale were literally told by their fine United States doctors that no such thing exists; say, “fine, I can’t take that torture anymore, I will just let the kidney die,” get up and start to stumble out, all of the sudden the doctor clears his throat and Lithostar exists, it is like magic! A nurse told me I was lying when I brought it up, she apologized after checking.

Here in this fine system of health care we see the musical chairs with doctors, from changing HMO’s (maintenance my rear end), like I can’t count them all. This insurance will not work there, and that one will not work here, duh (and the providers don’t even know what works where, which is a problem we have in my house NOW), “where do we go” is the question. It is up to us to pay regardless of their mistakes, which effects our personal economy putting us in debt. It all results in major illnesses going undetected that are financially devastating, I know, and that puts a great burden on the economy, when all that is needed in most cases is a cheap pill. To top it off the Companies and backstabbing Unions then make deals to shove disabled retires over to Medicare to save money; some things never make it into the union propaganda.

So I don’t see any reason whatsoever to be against socialized medicine, at least under the socialized system everyone would get cheap pills and equal treatment. Better to be tortured equally in my book. I feel so ashamed of believing in our wacky system of medicine for so many years.
 

The Pi Pirate

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Let's say you work at McDonalds, 40 hours a week at $10 an hour. That's $400 a week, about 20k per year. For now, say you're single, live in an apartment in, em, Detroit (first city to come to mind).

Just from a random Detroit Apartments site, http://detroitapartmenthomes.com/ , a studio apartment costs $350 a month, by the way.

OK, my question, partially to make a point and partially because I don't completely understand this, is this: On your $1600/mo budget, no healthcare or anything like that provided by employer, what rates of spending would you propose? Assume unschooled, maybe HS graduate.

Obviously, what's coming is Joe McDonaldsworker having a health issue and requiring hospitalization, but I want to set a groundwork first.
 

mikhail

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As i come from the uk we have the national health service. I think purely from a moral stand point its a good thing any health insurence depends on most middle class people paying in more then they take out.

However i dont see how it is going to work out in the long term with an ageing population increases in the cost of new drugs. i only can see the nhs in the uk continueing through massive and continuous increase in taxes.

i know america has certain advantages e.g less of an ageing population. However a national health service has a very hard time keeping up with changes in demographics and problems within.


Health does have a price and its ever increasing.
 

aquapub

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Observe the economies of countries WITH national healthcare. Their economies are always at a crawl.

Taking all the priority off the cutting edge to make things suck a little bit less for those who do the very least for their own stations in life is far from a solution. It would actually be the knockout blow to an otherwise strong economy. And say goodbye to new innovation.

It is an economic back-breaker. We need to learn from history and acknowledge that Europe's utterly stagnate economies are a direct result of their obscenely expensive national health care programs.
 

Willoughby

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Observe the economies of countries WITH national healthcare. Their economies are always at a crawl.

Taking all the priority off the cutting edge to make things suck a little bit less for those who do the very least for their own stations in life is far from a solution. It would actually be the knockout blow to an otherwise strong economy. And say goodbye to new innovation.

It is an economic back-breaker. We need to learn from history and acknowledge that Europe's utterly stagnate economies are a direct result of their obscenely expensive national health care programs.
do you have any links or evidence for this?
 

alphamale

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Government Health care is the second most important thing we need. The most important is cyanide pills to off ourselves! :lol:
 
T

The Real McCoy

Let me ask Thomas Jefferson and see what he thinks about NHC.

"Hey TJ, should we implement National Health Care?"

Thomas Jefferson says no.
 

Goobieman

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alphieb said:
First of all who said this has anything to do with the constitution.
I see you arent answeing my questions. Sigh.

If the Constitution doesnt give the federal govenrment the power to do it, then the federal governmen can't do it. Pretty elementary, that,

Believe or not this outrageous so called health care system of ours is dragging the middle class down and in turn hurting our economy
Irrelevant to above.

How would you be personally responsible for "strangers" when you would benefit from it to?
It works both ways, of course -- why should I exepct strangers to take care of me.

Having said that, do you have health insurance?
Irrelevant to the issue.
 

alphieb

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Goobieman said:
I see you arent answeing my questions. Sigh.

If the Constitution doesnt give the federal govenrment the power to do it, then the federal governmen can't do it. Pretty elementary, that,


Irrelevant to above.


It works both ways, of course -- why should I exepct strangers to take care of me.


Irrelevant to the issue.

Where in the constitution does it say we can't provide that? If we are giving our lives, money, time and energy for Iraq, why can't we that care of our fellow Americans right here in the U.S.???????? This war has been much more of a financial disaster than NHC would?
 

alphieb

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The Real McCoy said:
Let me ask Thomas Jefferson and see what he thinks about NHC.

"Hey TJ, should we implement National Health Care?"

Thomas Jefferson says no.

WOW, you can talk to the dead? What a unique talent or shall I say psychosis.
 

alphieb

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DivineComedy said:
DeeJayH may were responding to what I just posted, but I will respond to what you just posted.

I now agree the economy of it might be better, at least it would be fair.

I was always against such Universal Health Care type stuff because when I was in my early twenties I had a foreign socialist girlfriend that was thirty-two years old, she was on a waiting list for treatment for Cancer under her socialized system of medicine. She was a totally gorgeous former model and a Mensa member too, and could cook on top of it, not to mention the ..., so I was madly in love with her. She liked her system and hated ours, and I was so afraid for her; I argued that this system was better, and I lost her. What a laugh that argument sounds in my ears to me now!

First, do no harm, right? Years after I lost that socialist girlfriend I learned that salaried employees would get Lithostar, “oh, what is that like boss,” while the hourly employees at the top of the wage scale were literally told by their fine United States doctors that no such thing exists; say, “fine, I can’t take that torture anymore, I will just let the kidney die,” get up and start to stumble out, all of the sudden the doctor clears his throat and Lithostar exists, it is like magic! A nurse told me I was lying when I brought it up, she apologized after checking.

Here in this fine system of health care we see the musical chairs with doctors, from changing HMO’s (maintenance my rear end), like I can’t count them all. This insurance will not work there, and that one will not work here, duh (and the providers don’t even know what works where, which is a problem we have in my house NOW), “where do we go” is the question. It is up to us to pay regardless of their mistakes, which effects our personal economy putting us in debt. It all results in major illnesses going undetected that are financially devastating, I know, and that puts a great burden on the economy, when all that is needed in most cases is a cheap pill. To top it off the Companies and backstabbing Unions then make deals to shove disabled retires over to Medicare to save money; some things never make it into the union propaganda.

So I don’t see any reason whatsoever to be against socialized medicine, at least under the socialized system everyone would get cheap pills and equal treatment. Better to be tortured equally in my book. I feel so ashamed of believing in our wacky system of medicine for so many years.

Sorrry to hear about your lose.....
Did she die due to the wait or rapid spreading cancer? Was she dianosed late?
 

alphieb

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How are we in better shape financially than Canada and the UK?
 

alphieb

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alphamale said:
Government Health care is the second most important thing we need. The most important is cyanide pills to off ourselves! :lol:

Thats a good point, you can also use carbon monoxide with your car in the garage.
 

taxedout

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alphieb said:
How exactly would it hurt our economy? Don't you think the millions filing medical bankruptcy and throwing in their credit cards with it is hurting our economy? How about those through the roof premiums? That is taking money out of pockets that could be put back into the economy instead of some greedy doctor's pocket.


And where will the money come form to run the system ? From your pocket. What's more, it will be government run, which translates to a hopelessly inefficient massive beaurocracy. Unless you can point to a government beaurocracy where this is not the case, what makes you think NHC will be different. It will heavily burden the middle class, as do all government funded solutions.

The disappearing middle class will be screwed again. Soon wee will all be lower class, but this time with a hopelssly inefficient healthcare system.


You can't get something for nothing.
 

alphieb

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taxedout said:
And where will the money come form to run the system ? From your pocket. What's more, it will be government run, which translates to a hopelessly inefficient massive beaurocracy. Unless you can point to a government beaurocracy where this is not the case, what makes you think NHC will be different. It will heavily burden the middle class, as do all government funded solutions.

The disappearing middle class will be screwed again. Soon wee will all be lower class, but this time with a hopelssly inefficient healthcare system.


You can't get something for nothing.

Explain to me how NHC will be worse? How do you know how much each individual will be taxed? How do you know it would be more than what we are already paying out in deductibles and premiums? Government funded programs in my opinion help the economy, because it gives people a chance to get on their feet and then contribute back to the economy rather than die out and lower our population.
 

Goobieman

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alphieb said:
Where in the constitution does it say we can't provide that?
Civics 101:
If the Constitution doesnt specifically grant a power to the Fed Gvmnt, the Fed gvmnt can't do it. See also Amendment X.

Do you REALLY want the government doing things it doesnt have the power to do just because it thinks its a good idea?
 

alphieb

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Goobieman said:
Civics 101:
If the Constitution doesnt specifically grant a power to the Fed Gvmnt, the Fed gvmnt can't do it. See also Amendment X.

Do you REALLY want the government doing things it doesnt have the power to do just because it thinks its a good idea?

Oh OK, I guess we shall eliminate medicaid and medicare and the food stamp program etc, because that is not specified in the constitution either. Bush's wiretapping were against our constitution, but he did it anyway, didn't he. Why, to protect us............ We need to protect our people medically as well.
Very weak argument........Goob.
 
H

hipsterdufus

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Isn' t this typical?
Rather than address a legitimate question, make a snide, sarcastic remark.
:bs

Obviously addressing the question legitimately has no effect on those with no heart for their fellow Americans. Been there, done that.
 

Goobieman

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alphieb said:
Oh OK, I guess we shall eliminate medicaid and medicare and the food stamp program etc, because that is not specified in the constitution either.
Bush's wiretapping were against our constitution, but he did it anyway, didn't he.
Make up your mind -
Do you or do you not want the fed gvmnt to do things that it doesnt have the power to do just because you or they think its a good idea?
 

Goobieman

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hipsterdufus said:
Obviously addressing the question legitimately has no effect on those with no heart for their fellow Americans. Been there, done that.
And yet again -- you dont address the questions, you simply make snide remarks.
:rofl
 

taxedout

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alphieb said:
Explain to me how NHC will be worse? How do you know how much each individual will be taxed? How do you know it would be more than what we are already paying out in deductibles and premiums? Government funded programs in my opinion help the economy, because it gives people a chance to get on their feet and then contribute back to the economy rather than die out and lower our population.


You're right, I'm sure it will all be cost saving. The government has a great track record for saving money.
 

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The tax base will increase by more then what I am presently paying for healthcare now. So I see no reason to go to a UH system. Not to mention my accesability to my doctor and specialist will decrease. I also think this will severly hurt our medical industry such as drug companies and medical research. I really see no reason that anyone other then the poor or lazy would want UH.
 

alphieb

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Goobieman said:
Make up your mind -
Do you or do you not want the fed gvmnt to do things that it doesnt have the power to do just because you or they think its a good idea?

You missed my point entirely or pretended to.
 

alphieb

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taxedout said:
You're right, I'm sure it will all be cost saving. The government has a great track record for saving money.

No that has been the track record of the Bush Admin., remember Clinton had our budget balanced and he by the way, was for NHC.
 

alphieb

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Calm2Chaos said:
The tax base will increase by more then what I am presently paying for healthcare now. So I see no reason to go to a UH system. Not to mention my accesability to my doctor and specialist will decrease. I also think this will severly hurt our medical industry such as drug companies and medical research. I really see no reason that anyone other then the poor or lazy would want UH.

You are merely speculating.........
 
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