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Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drunk?

Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drunk?


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Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

And this is what I fear. We've come to a point where we don't point out the victim's part in the tragedy AT ALL. That needs to stop. You want to stop these kinds of rape? You have to work BOTH ends of the issue.

There are an enormous number of people around that think it un-pc to speak the truth. Why, they even get excited, when the word one uses is one they think is un-pc.
 
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Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

We're not talking about 'legally responsible. We're talking about life responsibility. The responsibility you have for yourself, your life, your future.

You still are not responsible for that persons actions.... How is a woman who gets drunk at a party responsible for someones actions of raping her? The person/victim of that rape is not responsible for that persons decision to take advantage of them and then rape them. One should not have to live in constant fear of being raped because they went to a party and having fun and getting drunk. The only thing they are responsible for is getting drunk.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Well telling people not to rape isn't going to stop rape from happening. Rapists clearly don't care.

Rapists are often drunk kids who, while inebriated, commit an awful crime. Why is it ok to tell girls to 'not get drunk to not get raped' but not ok to tell boys to 'not get drunk so you don't rape'?

The decision to rape is fully taken by one party. That party is fully responsible.

You have to teach the women for one reason and one reason only....WOMEN GET RAPED FAR, FAR MORE OFTEN THEN MEN. Men are stronger and more predatory than women. Do you think I relied on a some young man's father to teach his son not to rape more than I relied on myself to teach my daughter how not to get raped? She could have been put in a room full of choirboys and would STILL not be getting blackout drunk.

Your point? I say the reason that we have to teach the men is because MEN RAPE FAR FAR MORE OFTEN THAN WOMEN.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Those are one party actions: yours. You are your own victim.
Sexual assault is a two party action. You created a victim.

The scenarios represent an ability to make, and be held liable, for a decision.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

I believe I pointed out that societies will sometimes choose to treat a person's responsibility as though it were causal to the crime. And so, being drunk might not be illegal. Stumble into the street in front of a car and you will find the court will treat the case differently than had you been sober.

What is irresponsible is running around mindlessly telling the girls that it is not their fault, when they take risks.

Its not their fault. Taking a risk does mean they are responsible for getting raped....
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Anyone who sexually assaults anyone no matter how intoxicated the victim is needs to spend a long time behind bars
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Not everyone in Watts is going to mug you or worse. The ones that do are breaking the law and should be prosecuted just as the rapist should. You have a Constitutional right to walk in any US neighborhood you wish, unmolested. That's why we have laws. Fallujah is not aprt of the US and not subject ot our laws, or societal and cultural norms. Sure, both are stupid, as is getting so drunk that you pass out cold. However, stupidity does not equate to responsibility for the actions of others. Just because we may do something stupid that makes us vulnerable (like walking in a crime-prone area at night) does not legally equate to being responsible for the actions others decide to take against us. Of course we have a moral burden to protect ourselves by not putting ourselves into a vulnerable position. In the military we called it SA - Situational Awareness (or CSA - Combat Situational Awareness) .


That a different subject. Using awareness of actions or lack of actions that can put us in a vulnerable position to where we are more likely to fall prey to a violent act perpetrated against us is of course something that should be taught to all our children as they grow into adulthood. I did for my two sons. Teaching a daughter would be no different.

However, again, that does not equate to legal culpability. In my opinion, it doesn't even equate to ethical, or moral culpability either.

Let's say a young lady sleeps in the nude, and also walk in her sleep. One night, she has a hard time getting to sleep so she takes a sleeping aid, a pill. She also has two glasses of wine with some cheese and crackers, right before she goes to bed.

Later on that night, she begins to sleep walk and goes out the door of her apartment into the hall, naked, and then lies down on the floor, still asleep.

The young college boys that live down the hall come out of their apartment and see her lying on the floor, naked and asleep (basically unconscious due to the wine and sleeping pills).

Do the boys have a right to now rape the woman? Would she be responsible if she was raped? What if she didn't have the wine or the pills and still found herself naked in the hall and on the floor getting raped after she walked out of her apartment while still asleep? Is she still responsible? What if she wasn't naked, but rather slept in a t-shirt with no panties and when she was asleep on the hallway floor her lower half was uncovered? Would that make it her fault that some male couldn't stop himself from putting a part of his body inside a part of her body?

Rape is never justified. Rape is never the fault of the victim. Rape can always be stopped by the actor, not always by the victim. The actor is responsible for rape, not the victim.

I have a Constitutional right to say "nigger,nigger,nigger" on a Baltimore city bus....but I wouldn't because it's stupid.

Rape is awful. And it's so awful that I would think we would want to do EVERYTHING in our power to stop it. Including teaching our young women not to sleep naked in the hallways or get blackout drunk at parties. The actor is ALWAYS responsible for the rape, but occasionally it's the victim's poor decisions that facilitate it.

A quick question...would that rape at Stanford have happened in absence of this young lady's poor decision making?
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Anyone who sexually assaults anyone no matter how intoxicated the victim is needs to spend a long time behind bars

We are agreed. A long, painful, time. Cuddled up to LeRoy and Bubba.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Rapists are often drunk kids who, while inebriated, commit an awful crime. Why is it ok to tell girls to 'not get drunk to not get raped' but not ok to tell boys to 'not get drunk so you don't rape'?

The decision to rape is fully taken by one party. That party is fully responsible.

Here's a good analogy of why telling boys not to rape is dumb:

You can tell burgulars not to steal, but the better idea? Lock your door.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Women are responsible for their situational decisions. If one has chosen to get blackout drunk...and, unless one is DRUGGED, it IS a decision, they have engaged in EXTREMELY risky behavior. Although the perpetrator is 100% responsible, society, in general, is going to lay blame on the victim for their stupidity.

Sounds reasonable.

She placed her self in a positon that she would be unable to make decisions around other impaired individuals. But the perp should be held completely legally responsible.

I am not saying she deserved it, just, well she should have expected it was a possible outcome.

This is totally unlike a woman wearing provocative dress being responsible for her own rape. In that instance both have control over their own mental faculties.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Sounds reasonable.

She placed her self in a positon that she would be unable to make decisions around other impaired individuals. But the perp should be held completely legally responsible.

I am not saying she deserved it, just, well she should have expected it was a possible outcome.

This is totally unlike a woman wearing provocative dress being responsible for her own rape. In that instance both have control over their own mental faculties.

Absolutely.

Besides, usually rape isn't about sex anyway...it's about power and control.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Rapists are often drunk kids who, while inebriated, commit an awful crime. Why is it ok to tell girls to 'not get drunk to not get raped' but not ok to tell boys to 'not get drunk so you don't rape'?

The decision to rape is fully taken by one party. That party is fully responsible.



Your point? I say the reason that we have to teach the men is because MEN RAPE FAR FAR MORE OFTEN THAN WOMEN.

Why can't we do BOTH?
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Had they not taken that risk...they would have been raped anyway?

People are raped when they are sober. People are raped when they are sound asleep in their homes.... Being drunk is not a pre-condition to be raped.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

So we shouldn't teach our girls how to avoid such situations by pointing out cautionary examples? Of course we should.

I never used the misfortune of rape victims to teach my daughter that she should be careful. But then again, she grew up in Europe. We don't really have that whole college rape and party culture over here. :shrug:
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

I have a Constitutional right to say "nigger,nigger,nigger" on a Baltimore city bus....but I wouldn't because it's stupid.

Rape is awful. And it's so awful that I would think we would want to do EVERYTHING in our power to stop it. Including teaching our young women not to sleep naked in the hallways or get blackout drunk at parties. The actor is ALWAYS responsible for the rape, but occasionally it's the victim's poor decisions that facilitate it.

A quick question...would that rape at Stanford have happened in absence of this young lady's poor decision making?

The girl in the Stanford case didn't yell, rape me, rape me, rape me. Getting drunk and passing out was stupid. The punishment for drinking and passing out is not rape.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

You still are not responsible for that persons actions.... How is a woman who gets drunk at a party responsible for someones actions of raping her? The person/victim of that rape is not responsible for that persons decision to take advantage of them and then rape them. One should not have to live in constant fear of being raped because they went to a party and having fun and getting drunk. The only thing they are responsible for is getting drunk.

Had they not gotten drunk, would that rape have happened?
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Had they not gotten drunk, would that rape have happened?

People are raped when they are sober. People are raped when they are sound asleep in their homes.... Being drunk is not a pre-condition to be raped.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

I never used the misfortune of rape victims to teach my daughter that she should be careful. But then again, she grew up in Europe. We don't really have that whole college rape and party culture over here. :shrug:

I've been to Europe, and Switzerland in particular a number of times. You must have lived in a very isolated part, because the girls and guys I met could stand (or lie as the case may be) with any US college kid when it came to partying and raising hell.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Its not their fault. Taking a risk does mean they are responsible for getting raped....

It may not make it punishable, but to tell the girls that behaving in a risky way does not come attached with responsibility is disgusting.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

People are raped when they are sober. People are raped when they are sound asleep in their homes.... Being drunk is not a pre-condition to be raped.

True. But alcohol is the most common date-rape drug.

Police, experts: Alcohol most common in sexual assaults

Again, I'm not absolving any rapist from any crime. They're scum. But young women MUST be aware. All the time. If a deer in the forest let's down it's guard, it just might get eaten.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Anyone who sexually assaults anyone no matter how intoxicated the victim is needs to spend a long time behind bars

That is quite true.

It is also true that telling girls that they are not responsible for the consequences of putting themselves at risk should be punished as well.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

The girl in the Stanford case didn't yell, rape me, rape me, rape me. Getting drunk and passing out was stupid. The punishment for drinking and passing out is not rape.

It was in this case. And that's as sad as can be.

I don't want it to EVER happen again. And if we point out where the girl went wrong, AS WELL AS WHAT A SCUMBAG THE ASSAILANT IS, then we will be moving forward.

But to behave as if she's as pure as the driven snow and in no way responsible for her actions is intolerable and destructive.
 
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