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Do Trains Have a Role in Future Warfare?

My question that I wondered about was if trains in the future might have a significant military role? I know it is just a novel but it got me to thinking. I've had an interest in the future applications of what we tend to think of as post or obsolete technology like steam engines and trains.

They're still a major part of our logistics for the forseeable future, but as an active part of warfare it's going to be pretty limited.

Their mobility isn't much of an asset when any modern military could cut the rail line easily from standoff ranges far faster than it can be repaired. Then the thing is just a battleship parked on the beach, waiting to die.
 
They are an FPS series set in a post-apocalyptic Russia based on a series of books of the same name.
They are tense and hardcore with limited ammo and the graphics are amazing.
It does a great job of telling a story of a bunch of survivors living in a Metro system because the world above is a nuclear wasteland.

I highly recommend them all.


I'll take your word on it but I have little but disdain for the post apocalyptic genre.
 
What if the trains could be prepositioned deep in enemy territory BEFORE hostilities began? Under the pretext of regular economic ties and activity.


Then everything would have to be hidden in shipping containers which can be inspected when they enter the country. When in the other country the cars are shipped to the location on the manifest, not on the whim by the “ invading” country.


Only potentially useful in Central Asia or Africa where a lack of air power exists. Even then you would soon have an expensive piece of hardware deep in another country without the ability to move it around or supply it. Trucks are a much better option
 
I'll take your word on it but I have little but disdain for the post apocalyptic genre.

Fair enough.

The first 2 games spend most of the time underground as going above ground requires oxygen masks and air filters are rare and valuable and don't last very long.
It is very Russian in look and the contact with the outside world is extremely limited and the story is actually half-decent which for a game is not always the case.

If you really don't like the genre then yeah avoid, but if you can get them in a sale for a few bucks for the first 2 games I honestly think you may be surprised by them.
 
I was reading the modern war novel "Red Metal" I think it was called. In it the Russians are determined to seize a massive rare Earths mine in Africa. In order to distract the United States and disrupt U.S. operations in Africa they launch a massive deep armored raid from Belarus across Poland to attack the American command base for its African command in Germany.

The Russian armored force is supported by three large trains based on a Russian passenger train design that features variable gauge railroad trucks meaning it can adjust quickly to the different railroad gauges used in Russia and Western Europe. The trains carry massive amounts of weapons and munitions for the Russian armored force to use. But most ominously it carries SAM launchers for the most advanced SAMs in the Russian military. In effect the SAM carrying train serves as a portable SAM umbrella for the Russian armored raiding force.

My question that I wondered about was if trains in the future might have a significant military role? I know it is just a novel but it got me to thinking. I've had an interest in the future applications of what we tend to think of as post or obsolete technology like steam engines and trains.
There is no such thing as variable gauge railroad trucks. When the gauge is different, new axles with the wheels gauged to the new tracks have to be applied to the railroad cars and engines. That is impractical. At this time the cargo is offloaded and reloaded on cars that are set up for the different gauge track. This is also very time consuming.

Second, bombs and cruise missiles are not needed to stop a train. Trains are easy to derail and the faster the train is traveling the bigger the mess it leaves. A commando team could easily place a charge that would take out the rail in front of the train and derail it. A drone could also fire a missile that would derail a train.
 
Yeah, try moving an army on high speed trains. Better yet try running them on standard freight rail.

You realize that if the gauge on a high speed train change be changed, the gauge on a much lower speed freight train could be changed.
 
One freight car can weigh as much as an entire 20 car passenger train. High speed track does not have any tight turns.

The forces on a train at 400 kph is rather high
 
The forces on a train at 400 kph is rather high
You have that right. Kinetic energy is comprised of speed and mass. That is why high speed trains are limited to 10 light cars and have very shallow curves.
 
Railways as delivery infrastructure are more important that as platforms for exotic weapons or even traditional standard weapons regardless of new technologies in weaponry.

A military train of armored unit platforms is inefficient in virtually every respect, ie, the armored units, the expenditure of funds, personnel and so on. Moreover, destroy the tracks and the armored combat train becomes a sitting duck to air power.

Russia and NATO alike rely on railways to deliver the goods to the battlespace, from troops to heavy weapons to supplies and materials. Neither side includes the military combat train as a part of its arsenal.

Highways are secondary and inadequate when getting tanks and other armored vehicles to the zone of conflict to include artillery. This is true concerning both speed and quantity. Russia relies almost entirely on rail to move its superior artillery guns against NATO whether the utilization is offensive or defensive.

Delivery by air is wholly insufficient for the mass needed of heavy armored vehicles in particular and also for the Russian heavy and powerful long range artillery.

By 2016 Russia had completed a new railway delivery system to the eastern Ukraine border without which its operations inside Ukraine would have lacked the timely punch to consolidate its gains and to secure them.

Secure prepositioning is the NATO-U.S. doctrine of vehicles, ammunition, supplies, materials and so on, so gaining air superiority is a first priority if not the first. Air forces of USA, UK, France and Italy have this mission against Russian air offensives to include missiles of course.

NATO needs its rail delivery infrastructure to execute its second wave to repel or freeze a Russian offensive against NATO while Russia needs its rail delivery system to sustain its offensive. So destroying rail delivery infrastructure is a priority on each side.

Each destroying the rail delivery infrastructure of the other could bring the whole thing to a halt.
 
Railways as delivery infrastructure are more important that as platforms for exotic weapons or even traditional standard weapons regardless of new technologies in weaponry.

A military train of armored unit platforms is inefficient in virtually every respect, ie, the armored units, the expenditure of funds, personnel and so on. Moreover, destroy the tracks and the armored combat train becomes a sitting duck to air power.

Russia and NATO alike rely on railways to deliver the goods to the battlespace, from troops to heavy weapons to supplies and materials. Neither side includes the military combat train as a part of its arsenal.

Highways are secondary and inadequate when getting tanks and other armored vehicles to the zone of conflict to include artillery. This is true concerning both speed and quantity. Russia relies almost entirely on rail to move its superior artillery guns against NATO whether the utilization is offensive or defensive.

Delivery by air is wholly insufficient for the mass needed of heavy armored vehicles in particular and also for the Russian heavy and powerful long range artillery.

By 2016 Russia had completed a new railway delivery system to the eastern Ukraine border without which its operations inside Ukraine would have lacked the timely punch to consolidate its gains and to secure them.

Secure prepositioning is the NATO-U.S. doctrine of vehicles, ammunition, supplies, materials and so on, so gaining air superiority is a first priority if not the first. Air forces of USA, UK, France and Italy have this mission against Russian air offensives to include missiles of course.

NATO needs its rail delivery infrastructure to execute its second wave to repel or freeze a Russian offensive against NATO while Russia needs its rail delivery system to sustain its offensive. So destroying rail delivery infrastructure is a priority on each side.

Each destroying the rail delivery infrastructure of the other could bring the whole thing to a halt.

This may have been the doctrine during the Cold War it is very much modified now. Trains are the prime movers only really in the base country to get equipment to ports which then deploy to the closest seaport or landing area to deploy the equipment cheaply and with minimal disruption to civilian traffic. While prepositioning equipment is still used it is not as prevalent because of vulnerability to not only attack but being not in the right place and usually having to bring the people needed to operate it, which means the equipment is not instantly available as it typically needs to be inspected fueled armed ect. The US military has found it is better in many regards to simply ship the units equipment and operators together. Trains are not really used in theaters anymore equipment is moved by truck mainly in theatre for two reasons flexibility and redundancy. The trucks don't have to get modern equipment all the way to the front just close. When one breaks down the rest still move and if a road is blocked or destroyed trucks have an ability to make their way around similar to how ants work. Another reason that is not mentioned much is parallelism of movement whereas trucks are not restricted to just main roads but can utilize smaller arteries to spread the logistics train in such fashion as to make it difficult target and cut significantly in volume.
 
The UK has tested and used the Eurotunnel to transport tanks to mainland Europe which makes the final journey to the Middle East easier but I'm unsure how usefull that would be in an actual wartime scenario. The entrances in the UK and France are massive and not exactly easy to conceal and would make for easy targets.
 
This may have been the doctrine during the Cold War it is very much modified now. Trains are the prime movers only really in the base country to get equipment to ports which then deploy to the closest seaport or landing area to deploy the equipment cheaply and with minimal disruption to civilian traffic. While prepositioning equipment is still used it is not as prevalent because of vulnerability to not only attack but being not in the right place and usually having to bring the people needed to operate it, which means the equipment is not instantly available as it typically needs to be inspected fueled armed ect. The US military has found it is better in many regards to simply ship the units equipment and operators together. Trains are not really used in theaters anymore equipment is moved by truck mainly in theatre for two reasons flexibility and redundancy. The trucks don't have to get modern equipment all the way to the front just close. When one breaks down the rest still move and if a road is blocked or destroyed trucks have an ability to make their way around similar to how ants work. Another reason that is not mentioned much is parallelism of movement whereas trucks are not restricted to just main roads but can utilize smaller arteries to spread the logistics train in such fashion as to make it difficult target and cut significantly in volume.

Your post that's swarmed into a single hive makes a number of valid points such as rail infrastructure being used in the base country to get heavy weapons and other vehicles to port and shipped out. Yet for NATO countering a Russian cross border advance into the Baltics NATO would be receiving not shipping.

And if Russia can obstruct, disable or preclude shipping to Rotterdam and other key ports along the Baltic Nato is going to be hard pressed to get its hands on the heavy weapons and equipment it will need to confront the Russian invader successfully. Perhaps some Baltic states ports could be held open as in Pusan in the Korean Conflict but their capacity to receive is definitely limited.

Which brings us back to air superiority which you don't mention in any way and that is the first priority of Nato air forces, accomplished namely and as I pointed out by the US, UK, France, Italy. Allied air superiority as the first strategic order of priority would enable their air attack forces to penetrate the Russian base homeland to destroy their rail infrastructure network. Indeed Russia needs it rail system and network more than Nato needs its own.

Nato's first challenge to save the Baltic states is to fight its way through Kaliningrad while holding off or repelling Russian troops traversing Belarus, which only a safely ashore second wave can do. It's the second wave that would use prepositioned stores of vehicles, ammunition, supplies -- beans, bullets and bandages -- as it's a given the forces that are the first responders haven't the time, resources or personnel to crank up and move the stores in the opening hours or days.

So rail transport and delivery via the Russian base is much more of a vital factor to the Russians than it is to the Nato allies. The challenge to the Allies is to get its stuff and forces ashore via viable ports and to sustain landings in more than one cycle of delivery, to include supplies and sustainment of course.

Additionally and I don't know but it's conceivable Nato has a Plan X as in cross your fingers to enter Russia via Scandanavia to access the Baltic states by land from their east while staging a diversion or an actual Baltic seaborn approach from the north. While that would be a militarily smart operation it would be extreme, but then again there are many variables to another conflict in Europe-Eurasia some of which could be extreme indeed. One variable would be to give in to Russia which would be catastrophic for sure.
 
Armored/armed trains never had a "massive role" in warfare. They got used as very bad artillery platforms in late industrial era and WW1 (note: an armored/armed train isn't the same as a railway gun), then as counter insurgency weapons in the Russian Civil War and WW2.
they were important in the civil war and early modern warfare
 
I was reading the modern war novel "Red Metal" I think it was called. In it the Russians are determined to seize a massive rare Earths mine in Africa. In order to distract the United States and disrupt U.S. operations in Africa they launch a massive deep armored raid from Belarus across Poland to attack the American command base for its African command in Germany.

The Russian armored force is supported by three large trains based on a Russian passenger train design that features variable gauge railroad trucks meaning it can adjust quickly to the different railroad gauges used in Russia and Western Europe. The trains carry massive amounts of weapons and munitions for the Russian armored force to use. But most ominously it carries SAM launchers for the most advanced SAMs in the Russian military. In effect the SAM carrying train serves as a portable SAM umbrella for the Russian armored raiding force.

My question that I wondered about was if trains in the future might have a significant military role? I know it is just a novel but it got me to thinking. I've had an interest in the future applications of what we tend to think of as post or obsolete technology like steam engines and trains.
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