Do these antifa people scare you?

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Sure. Im trying to make the point that street brawling and direct action works sometimes. Cable street attests to it.

No, it doesn't work sometimes.
If it did, we could have just sent violent protesters to Berlin in 1941.

If you love brawling so much, then enlist.
The military wants people who love to brawl, they'll even give you weapons.

To flesh out how violent flanks operate within individual cases, Chenoweth and Schock examine four cases where violent flanks were present: Burma in 1988, the Philippines from 1983-1986, South Africa from 1952-1961 and South Africa from 1983-1994. Two campaigns were successful (the Philippines and South Africa from 1983-1994) and two were not (Burma and South Africa from 1952-1961). Meanwhile, two had violent flanks outside of the nonviolent movement (Burma and the Philippines) and two had violent flanks associated with the nonviolent movement (the two South Africa cases).

After examining the histories of these nonviolent campaigns—and the ways they interacted with armed resistance—the authors find mixed results. Violent flanks had negative effects in the two unsuccessful cases, no net impact in one of the successful cases (the Philippines) and a weak positive effect in the other (the later South African case). Overall there was greater evidence for negative violent flank effect mechanisms than for positive ones.

In the one case where a violent flank had a weak positive effect (South Africa from 1983-1994), Chenoweth and Schock argue that that effect was mostly symbolic—energizing activists around the revolutionary mystique of violent resistance—rather than instrumental to gaining power over the apartheid regime (something that was accomplished, instead, by the nonviolent resistance movement).

The strategic naiveté of Antifa

Why violent protest rarely works.

www.opendemocracy.net

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Antifa is an ideology, not an organization.

I am antifascist. Do I have a purity pony problem?

I am antifascist.
In fact, it would be impossible for me to be anything else, given my family history.
Why do people keep thinking they have to repeat the fact that antifascism is an ideology?
I realize that.

Nevertheless, there are armed militant groups on both sides of the current extremist dynamic, one side is armed militants on the far Right and one side is armed militants on the far Left.
And here's me, not an extremist.
Does ANYTHING I've ever said here make you believe I support fascism?

 

[Luce]

I am antifascist.
In fact, it would be impossible for me to be anything else, given my family history.
Why do people keep thinking they have to repeat the fact that antifascism is an ideology?
I realize that.

Nevertheless, there are armed militant groups on both sides of the current extremist dynamic, one side is armed militants on the far Right and one side is armed militants on the far Left.
And here's me, not an extremist.
Does ANYTHING I've ever said here make you believe I support fascism?

1. People have to keep repeating it because people keep referring to it as a discrete group. It would be like saying "conservatives" in place of "republicans".

2,. I am in favor of using extreme methods in the removal of fascism. It's an old family tradition.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

2,. I am in favor of using extreme methods in the removal of fascism. It's an old family tradition.

Me too.
Pops took two Nazi bullets to the neck in WW2.
How's that for antifascist action?
( I think I already made mention of this further up in the thread)

 

[Rumpel]

As far as I know those antifa crowd, they are terrible fanatics and the most awful fascists themselves.

 

[Luce]

As far as I know those antifa crowd, they are terrible fanatics and the most awful fascists themselves.

See, @Checkerboard Strangler , this is exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[Rumpel]

Every time they try to burn down a town they should be called "Black Shirt False Flag"

That's what they are, really.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

Antifa is an ideology, not an organization.

I am antifascist. Do I have a purity pony problem?

So when a bunch of people gather together and decide to call themsleves antifa and assault some 12 year old recording them in public they are "just an idea and a figment of the victims imagination"?

What if a bunch of people get together and call themselves the KKK but dont form an organization would they still be imaginary or real?

 

[Luce]

So when a bunch of people gather together and decide to call themsleves antifa and assault some 12 year old recording them in public they are "just an idea and a figment of the victims imagination"?

What if a bunch of people get together and call themselves the KKK but dont form an organization would they still be imaginary or real?

When a bunch of people gather together and call themselves conservative, and then start screeching at a Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, while chanting Nazi slogans, are THEY just a figment of the imagination?

 

[dirtpoorchris]

When a bunch of people gather together and call themselves conservative, and then start screeching at a Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, while chanting Nazi slogans, are THEY just a figment of the imagination?

Right so you agree they are a group then.

 

[vesper]

So you need to lead by example with:

There's a place you can park your self-righteousness.

 

[Chagos]

There's a place you can park your self-righteousness.

Pointing out your hypocrisy may or may not be self-righteous, but you're darn right that there's a place for parking it.

Namely right here in response to your posts where you demonstrate it.

 

[vesper]

Pointing out your hypocrisy may or may not be self-righteous, but you're darn right that there's a place for parking it.
pop
Namely right here in response to your posts where you demonstrate it.

There was nothing hypocritical about my post. To state as a mother if one of my kids brought home someone who thought it was cool to pop rivet their face like the picture that was posted, I would raise hell with my kids because I would not want them to come home one day with their faces pop riveted. Nothing hypocritical about that statement. Prior to my post I had not read anything about the comments of the appearance of the mostly white antifa members posted.

So maybe it is time you stepdown from your soapbox and take a look in the mirror.

 

[NolanVoyd]

There was nothing hypocritical about my post. To state as a mother if one of my kids brought home someone who thought it was cool to pop rivet their face like the picture that was posted, I would raise hell with my kids because I would not want them to come home one day with their faces pop riveted. Nothing hypocritical about that statement. Prior to my post I had not read anything about the comments of the appearance of the mostly white antifa members posted.

So maybe it is time you stepdown from your soapbox and take a look in the mirror.

Great lesson mom.

Teach your kids to judge a book by its cover.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

As far as I know those antifa crowd, they are terrible fanatics and the most awful fascists themselves.

I don't see them as fanatics at all, because to BE fanatic you first have to have something to be fanatical about and anarchists are against being fanatical about any form of governance.
I see them as purity ponies who have a penchant for behaving like douchebags when people refuse to be sufficiently anarchist enough for their liking.
And that's nothing new...they're pretty much being the same as they were back in the 1990's during all that WTO mess.
They were douchebags then and they're douchebags now.

The people who said Antifa is not an organization are correct, @Rumpel.
In YOUR country, you had anarchist punk squatters back in the 1980's.
They were not organized either, they were just "autonomen" douchebags.
They claim to have helped bring down the Berlin Wall, but as I have family who lived through that I take
exception because it's like saying Henry Ford invented the automobile.

 

[Chagos]

There was nothing hypocritical about my post. To state as a mother if one of my kids brought home someone who thought it was cool to pop rivet their face like the picture that was posted, I would raise hell with my kids because I would not want them to come home one day with their faces pop riveted. Nothing hypocritical about that statement. Prior to my post I had not read anything about the comments of the appearance of the mostly white antifa members posted.

Starting out with the absolutely false statement that (in your perception) nobody was making comments on appearances, to then proceed to do precisely that, is all one has to point out.

Your back-pedal of not having read anything prior to your post doesn't work, seeing how you were speaking in the "now"

So maybe it is time you stepdown from your soapbox and take a look in the mirror.

I'd recommend that the physician heal thyself in this case, but perhaps you'd have difficulty finding a mirror that hasn't long since cracked.

How you'd raise your kids is no concern of mine.

 

[vesper]

Great lesson mom.

Teach your kids to judge a book by its cover.

Actually it is a great lesson for a mom to be engaged with their kids and raising hell to inform them as long as they live under my roof don't come home with their face pop riveted. That has absolutely nothing to do with them being taught to be kind to everyone regardless what they look like.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

Either you are against fascists or you are not against fascists. It's really that simple.

Most of those who are against fascists do not identify as Antifa. It's really that simple.

 

[Old 'N Chill]

There was nothing hypocritical about my post. To state as a mother if one of my kids brought home someone who thought it was cool to pop rivet their face like the picture that was posted, I would raise hell with my kids because I would not want them to come home one day with their faces pop riveted. Nothing hypocritical about that statement. Prior to my post I had not read anything about the comments of the appearance of the mostly white antifa members posted.

So maybe it is time you stepdown from your soapbox and take a look in the mirror.

Geez, judge much? Maybe you should look in the mirror, with an open mind this time.

 

[Old 'N Chill]

Actually it is a great lesson for a mom to be engaged with their kids and raising hell to inform them as long as they live under my roof don't come home with their face pop riveted. That has absolutely nothing to do with them being taught to be kind to everyone regardless what they look like.

 

[vesper]

Starting out with the absolutely false statement that (in your perception) nobody was making comments on appearances, to then proceed to do precisely that, is all one has to point out.

Your back-pedal of not having read anything prior to your post doesn't work, seeing how you were speaking in the "now"

I'd recommend that the physician heal thyself in this case, but perhaps you'd have difficulty finding a mirror that hasn't long since cracked.

How you'd raise your kids is no concern of mine.

What part do you not understand that I had not read any posts making fun of the antifa poster that had been posted until later. When I found the thread it was on the page where another poster had posted a picture of two people who had pop riveted faces. That can be verified by the post I quoted. So my advice to you is stop the baiting and trolling.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Most of those who are against fascists do not identify as Antifa. It's really that simple.

I identify as anti-fascist.
Why isn't that GOOD ENOUGH?

I'd really like to know.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

You know what?
I just realized that most of this thread is beginning to feel like arguing football with a Dallas Cowboys fan.
You can tell them you like football, that's not good enough.
You can, as my wife Karen always does, tell them you grew up in Chicago.
Still not good enough!
You can mention that you grew up in Washington DC, like I did.
Definitely a bad idea to tell a hardcore Dallas Cowboys fan that piece of information!

Anyway, it always boils down to "If you aren't a Dallas Cowboys fan you ain't fit to say you like football."

And that's how it sounds debating with the Antifa apologists and defenders here on DP.
I am anti-fascist, my family history was seriously IMPACTED BY fascists, so I really actually HATE fascists, and with good reason.
I identify outwardly as anti-fascist and my own father was a real genuine bonafide ANTIFA who earned a Purple Heart for injuries suffered in WW2 in Germany...
specifically two Nazi bullets that missed his vitals by a fraction of an inch.

NOT GOOD ENOUGH! I am a Democrat, so I am a traitor as far as they're concerned.
Nothing you do or say will ever be good enough because they see themselves as the gatekeepers of all things anti-fascist.
And it irritates the shit out of them when anyone tells them that they have not earned the right to do so.
And that's usually when they become very hostile.
Anarchists do not tolerate anyone that believes in any kind of a hierarchical system of any kind.

You might as well be arguing football with a hardcore Dallas Cowboys fan, they see themselves as "America's Team" and as gatekeepers of all things pigskin related.

 

[bomberfox]

Antifa is an ideology, not an organization.

I am antifascist. Do I have a purity pony problem?

I get the argument about tactics but what i dont get is the stubborn refusal to accept direct action. Nonviolence doesnt stop these guys.

 

[bomberfox]

Theres a lot of questions checkerboard that i cant answer.