Do male-to-female transgender athletes have an unfair advantage in some women's sports?

[ALiberalModerate]

Transgender people exist, they do not have a mental disorder, they are not an abomination and they should be afforded the same rights and protections against discrimination as anyone else. That is not what this question is about. This is a question about fairness in sports.

I am a man and have competed in various races, cycling events, duathlons and so on. A few years ago, my doctor put me on testosterone replacement. After a significant head injury, my levels dropped and stayed low. My doctor believes it is a pituitary issue resulting from the head injury. At any rate, I have been on testosterone cypionate ever since. Within weeks of starting injections, it was apparent to me that the testosterone was enhancing my performance. I could train harder, got stronger, got faster, recovered faster. As a result, I stopped competing in races because I believed my treatment gave me an unfair advantage. I will still do the occasional charity race, but I just run it, I don't go all out and try for a PR because I believe it would be unfair to others in my age group.

In my opinion, Lia Thomas should have the personal integrity to know that she has a significant unfair advantage in women's sports and simply not compete:

 

[noonereal]

Come on, we all know they have an unfair advantage.

All this poll does is help to validate a debate that has no validity.

 

[Artymoon]

Yes, they have an advantage in most sports.

 

[Grim17]

If the sport requires physical strength, stature and/or agility to succeed, then biological men should never be allowed to compete in women's sports.

Of course if a person hates women, or they find it entertaining to see women embarrassed publicly and see their dreams crushed, then I'm sure there are people who are all for biological men competing in women's sports.

.

 

[TheParser]

Of course.

They should be ashamed of themselves.

The fans should ignore them.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Of course.

They should be ashamed of themselves.

The fans should ignore them.

Are you saying they should be ashamed of themselves because they are transgender, or because they are competing with an unfair advantage?

 

[phoenix2020]

Transgender people exist, they do not have a mental disorder, they are not an abomination and they should be afforded the same rights and protections against discrimination as anyone else. That is not what this question is about. This is a question about fairness in sports.

I am a man and have competed in various races, cycling events, duathlons and so on. A few years ago, my doctor put me on testosterone replacement. After a significant head injury, my levels dropped and stayed low. My doctor believes it is a pituitary issue resulting from the head injury. At any rate, I have been on testosterone cypionate ever since. Within weeks of starting injections, it was apparent to me that the testosterone was enhancing my performance. I could train harder, got stronger, got faster, recovered faster. As a result, I stopped competing in races because I believed my treatment gave me an unfair advantage. I will still do the occasional charity race, but I just run it, I don't go all out and try for a PR because I believe it would be unfair to others in my age group.

In my opinion, Lia Thomas should have the personal integrity to know that she has a significant unfair advantage in women's sports and simply not compete:

I think it's a great attitude when a person recognizes that they have an unfair advantage and removes themselves from competition. That is great sportsmanship (sportswomanship?), period.

 

[TheParser]

Are you saying they should be ashamed of themselves because they are transgender, or because they are competing with an unfair advantage?

The latter.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I think it's a great attitude when a person recognizes that they have an unfair advantage and removes themselves from competition. That is great sportsmanship (sportswomanship?), period.

I just think that if Lia Thomas can compete in women's sports, then we ought to just give Lance Armstrong his titles back, because what is the difference at that point?

 

[phoenix2020]

I just think that if Lia Thomas can compete in women's sports, then we ought to just give Lance Armstrong his titles back, because what is the difference at that point?

I think I lean in the same direction. The hormone therapy argument gives me some pause because it seems rational that with sufficient time and treatment the playing field may level, but I don't know what that bar is or should be, or whether it actually varies from individual to individual. Certainly, the bar that I've heard about anecdotally ("1 year of hormone treatment") seems far too low from what I know.

 

[Argent]

I think it's a great attitude when a person recognizes that they have an unfair advantage and removes themselves from competition. That is great sportsmanship (sportswomanship?), period.

It's not that simple. There are cis athletes who dominate their teams and their sports. Does that mean they should remove themselves from competition or be forced to compete on opposite-sex teams or maybe to be fair everyone gets a participation sticker and no one wins?

 

[phoenix2020]

It's not that simple. There are cis athletes who dominate their teams and their sports. Does that mean they should remove themselves from competition or be forced to compete on opposite-sex teams or maybe to be fair everyone gets a participation sticker and no one wins?

If they feel that their domination is the result of an advantage they consider to be unfair, then sure. If they don't feel that way, then they shouldn't. Pretty simple to me.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

This is a question about fairness in sports.

Fairness in sports?
Okay, let's take auto racing.

If your class is tube frame, naturally aspirated V8, 5 liters or under, radial tires not to exceed 10.5 inches width, is it okay for someone else
to bring a supercharged 8 liter V12 with slicks and compete in the same race?

My point is, naturally born males are one class, naturally born females are another class and genetically different males or females are another class altogether.
And in most sports you compete within a class.
Your IDENTITY may be one thing but when it comes to sports you can't fool anyone...your BODY is that of a formerly male person or a formerly female person regardless and it IS
your BODY that is competing, not your sexual identity.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

It's not that simple. There are cis athletes who dominate their teams and their sports. Does that mean they should remove themselves from competition or be forced to compete on opposite-sex teams or maybe to be fair everyone gets a participation sticker and no one wins?

Well we have classes of athletes so that athletes that dominate compete against other athletes that dominate. That has nothing to do with the question of male-to-female transgender athletes in women’s sports.

 

[TurtleDude]

Are you saying they should be ashamed of themselves because they are transgender, or because they are competing with an unfair advantage?

the latter

 

[Argent]

If they feel that their domination is the result of an advantage they consider to be unfair, then sure. If they don't feel that way, then they shouldn't. Pretty simple to me.

I can't imagine any athlete thinking they had an unfair advantage due to natural born talent honed by training. Competition is about trying to win not give lesser talent an equal chance. Your response didn't seem directed specifically to the trans issue posed in the thread so that's why I asked.

 

[Argent]

Well we have classes of athletes so that athletes that dominate compete against other athletes that dominate. That has nothing to do with the question of male-to-female transgender athletes in women’s sports.

See my post #16.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I can't imagine any athlete thinking they had an unfair advantage due to natural born talent honed by training. Competition is about trying to win not give lesser talent an equal chance. Your response didn't seem directed specifically to the trans issue posed in the thread so that's why I asked.

Over 1500 men have ran a 4 minute mile. There is not a single woman that has.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Transgender people exist, they do not have a mental disorder,

They pretty clearly do have exactly that IMO.

I dont see how anyone could ever conclude otherwise.

Stop the madness. Literally. At the very least show a modicum of logic and sportsmanship and dont try to compete against women. FFS.
I'd be ashamed AF to be that dude standing there on a podium with women. It just isnt right in any way, shape or form. Thats just me. Its an abomination is what it is.
Not that the person has this disorder, but that they be indulged in it to the point of a man competing in a women's sports league. You dont belong there. I'm not going to pretend that you do.

 

[Argent]

Over 1500 men have ran a 4 minute mile. There is not a single woman that has.

Ok. I'm missing your point.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Ok. I'm missing your point.

My point is that a male-to-female transgender does not just have a potential genetic advantage honed by training, they have a potential genetic advantage that no cisgender woman on earth has in some sports, hence the unfairness.

 

[phoenix2020]

I can't imagine any athlete thinking they had an unfair advantage due to natural born talent honed by training. Competition is about trying to win not give lesser talent an equal chance. Your response didn't seem directed specifically to the trans issue posed in the thread so that's why I asked.

Who said I was or we were discussing natural born talent? Did you read the OP's post which I was originally responding to? If not I suggest checking it out.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Hell yes.

 

[Argent]

Who said I was or we were discussing natural born talent? Did you read the OP's post which I was originally responding to? If not I suggest checking it out.

I misunderstood your response. When you didn't qualify trans persons in your response, I incorrectly assumed you went off topic a bit as discussions tend to do. Mea culpa.

 

[phoenix2020]

I misunderstood your response. When you didn't qualify trans persons in your response, I incorrectly assumed you went off topic a bit as discussions tend to do. Mea culpa.

I made a separate subsequent post where I described my position on this topic which largely sums up to "I'm not really sure where I stand."