Do Good Muslims Really Exist? (1 Viewer)

[F41]

What is the difference between a good Muslims or bad Muslim. As I see it, "Good" Muslims exist only in fairy tails, Sure, you will find a lot of good people who will call themselves Muslims, but the reality is they are the ones either born into a Muslim life, and, or have no understanding what a true Muslim is. The word "Islam" means "submission. A true Muslim must obey the will of "Allah."

According to their Prophet Mohammad, Allah is the true author of the Quran, this means a true Muslim must do what the Quran tells them. If they do not, then they are not true to Islam, and therefore only Muslim in name only. The ones who say they are good Muslims have never read the Quran or have no understanding of what it teaches.

Those who believe bad Muslims have taken over the representation of Islam are only fooling themselves, for true Muslims are the ones who submit and follow the words and teachings of their “Allah .“ True Muslims are "Slaves" to Allah and must do as Allah teaches, that is to fight and destroy unbelievers. So the true Muslims are the ones such as Osama bin Laden, who is now the "True" Face and New Prophet of Islam.

 

[FallingPianos]

What is the difference between a good Muslims or bad Muslim.

the same as the difference between a good christian and a bad christian. more importantly, the same as the difference between a good person and a bad person.

As I see it, "Good" Muslims exist only in fairy tails, Sure, you will find a lot of good people who will call themselves Muslims, but the reality is they are the ones either born into a Muslim life, and, or have no understanding what a true Muslim is. The word "Islam" means "submission. A true Muslim must obey the will of "Allah."

According to their Prophet Mohammad, Allah is the true author of the Quran, this means a true Muslim must do what the Quran tells them. If they do not, then they are not true to Islam, and therefore only Muslim in name only. The ones who say they are good Muslims have never read the Quran or have no understanding of what it teaches.

Those who believe bad Muslims have taken over the representation of Islam are only fooling themselves, for true Muslims are the ones who submit and follow the words and teachings of their “Allah .“ True Muslims are "Slaves" to Allah and must do as Allah teaches, that is to fight and destroy unbelievers. So the true Muslims are the ones such as Osama bin Laden, who is now the "True" Face and New Prophet of Islam.

if christians cant agree on what the bible teaches why should muslims be expected to agree on what the quran teaches? not even scholars that spend their entire lives studying such documents agree on the interpretation.

the truth is that such documents are always interpreted however the people want to interpret them.

 

[F41]

why should muslims be expected to agree on what the quran teaches?

Muslims MUST OBEY (no free will) the words and teachings of Islam to fight and destroy unbelievers or they are worthy of their own death, however, Christians are not condemned to earthly death and do not call for the destruction of unbelievers of Christianity.

The topic is on Islam, there are many topics on Christianity here, but I would like to not spin this to debate any other religion?

 

[FallingPianos]

Muslims MUST OBEY (no free will) the words and teachings of Islam to fight and destroy unbelievers or they are worthy of their own death

many muslims dont believe that, and the fact of the matter is that the quran is not the absolute authority on what is islam, nor is it an entirely consistent document.

The topic is on Islam, there are many topics on Christianity here, but I would like to not spin this to debate any other religion?

I'm not at all trying to change the subject. I'm merely trying to draw comparisons between the two, since most people are more familiar with christianity then with islam.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

You know, my first afterschool job I worked with several members of a family of Turkish immigrants.

Good folk. They were honest, they worked hard, and they took care of their own.

Worst "jihad" they ever subjected me to was a bit of a lecture when I missed a day of work because I'd been arrested for underaged drinking.

 

[akyron]

What is the difference between a good Muslims or bad Muslim. As I see it, "Good" Muslims exist only in fairy tails, Sure, you will find a lot of good people who will call themselves Muslims, but the reality is they are the ones either born into a Muslim life, and, or have no understanding what a true Muslim is. The word "Islam" means "submission. A true Muslim must obey the will of "Allah."

According to their Prophet Mohammad, Allah is the true author of the Quran, this means a true Muslim must do what the Quran tells them. If they do not, then they are not true to Islam, and therefore only Muslim in name only. The ones who say they are good Muslims have never read the Quran or have no understanding of what it teaches.

Those who believe bad Muslims have taken over the representation of Islam are only fooling themselves, for true Muslims are the ones who submit and follow the words and teachings of their “Allah .“ True Muslims are "Slaves" to Allah and must do as Allah teaches, that is to fight and destroy unbelievers. So the true Muslims are the ones such as Osama bin Laden, who is now the "True" Face and New Prophet of Islam.

Its all about the definitions.
How are we defining "good"?
Are you saying "good" as in peaceful or as in accurately faithful to Allah and the prophet? They are distinctly different as you point out.

PEACEFUL MUSLIM HYPOCRITES: Are well covered in the Koran, Tabari, Ishaq and I personally prefer these guys. They seem more interested in having a job, feeding their kids, and making their house payments.



GOOD MUSLIMS KILL These guys seem to be real problems.

Muslim:B20N4678 “Before the battle of Uhud a Muslim asked, ‘Messenger, where shall I be if I am killed?’ He replied: ‘In Paradise.’ The man fought until he was killed.”

After reading the religions texts a few times and visiting with some key religious individuals I have yet to reconcile this quandry. I have personally concluded that Mohammed was not backed by any divine power but had a forceful personality that forged a cult based on false beliefs that millions if not billions have paid for in blood and tears for his own personal gratification.

If there is a paradise Mo is roasting in hell. This is MY opinion at this time and I reserve the right to change it provided Allah comes down and tells me differently. (Mohammed sucked at miracles unlike Jesus so this is unlikely)

 

[FallingPianos]

PEACEFUL MUSLIM HYPOCRITES...

just like christians that eat pork, christian women that dont marry their deceased husband's brother, christians that dont turn the other cheek when attacked, etc, are all hypocrites.

 

[akyron]

just like christians that eat pork, christian women that dont marry their deceased husband's brother, christians that dont turn the other cheek when attacked, etc, are all hypocrites.

Tell it to Mohammed.
He defined them not I.

Qur’an 9:67 “The Hypocrites enjoin what is forbidden, and forbid what Islam commands. They withhold their hands (from spending in Allah’s Cause [Jihad]). They have forgotten Allah so He has forgotten them. Verily the Hypocrites are oblivious, rebellious and perverse.”

 

[vergiss]

Why convince us of this fact? Take it to somewhere it's needed... say, Saudi Arabia. :lol:

 

[zymurgy]

What is the difference between a good Muslims or bad Muslim. As I see it, "Good" Muslims exist only in fairy tails, Sure, you will find a lot of good people who will call themselves Muslims, but the reality is they are the ones either born into a Muslim life, and, or have no understanding what a true Muslim is. The word "Islam" means "submission. A true Muslim must obey the will of "Allah."

According to their Prophet Mohammad, Allah is the true author of the Quran, this means a true Muslim must do what the Quran tells them. If they do not, then they are not true to Islam, and therefore only Muslim in name only. The ones who say they are good Muslims have never read the Quran or have no understanding of what it teaches.

Those who believe bad Muslims have taken over the representation of Islam are only fooling themselves, for true Muslims are the ones who submit and follow the words and teachings of their “Allah .“ True Muslims are "Slaves" to Allah and must do as Allah teaches, that is to fight and destroy unbelievers. So the true Muslims are the ones such as Osama bin Laden, who is now the "True" Face and New Prophet of Islam.

Have you read the Quran?

Did you read it in the correct order?

 

[F41]

Have you read the Quran?

Did you read it in the correct order?

I have read alot of the Quran, and what would be the correct order, from begining to end?

I take it you may be muslim, so let me ask, explain what mohammad or Allah means in this :

2:215 They ask thee, (O Muhammad), what they shall spend. Say: that which ye spend for good (must go) to parents and near kindred and orphans and the needy and the wayfarer. And whatsoever good ye do, lo! Allah is Aware of it.

2:216 Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

Is war ordained by Allah, and this means all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not?

 

[zymurgy]

I have read alot of the Quran, and what would be the correct order, from begining to end?

I take it you may be muslim, so let me ask, explain what mohammad or Allah means in this :



Is war ordained by Allah, and this means all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not?

LOL, I'm not muslim. I'm agnostic living in rural America.

My understanding is the Quran is not intended to be read from beginning to end and this non straighforward manner is easily co-opted by extremists.

 

[akyron]

LOL, I'm not muslim. I'm agnostic living in rural America.

My understanding is the Quran is not intended to be read from beginning to end and this non straighforward manner is easily co-opted by extremists.

I have read it repeatedly and no matter the order you read it in it pretty much has the same meanings to me. You can be a "good" muslim and a good person as long as you have no contact with unbelievers.
Tolerating others of different faiths may make you a good person but not a very "good" muslim.

The sheer certainty of the koran always amazes me every time I read it.
PT Barnum had nothing on Mohammed.

 

[F41]

More from the Quran:

4:2 Give unto orphans their wealth. Exchange not the good for the bad (in your management thereof) nor absorb their wealth into your own wealth. Lo! that would be a great sin. Give to orphans and don't steal from them.
4:3 And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.

A man is allowed to marry multiple women, thus are owners of them as there property

4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property. So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

According to the Quran, Men rule the woman and woman must obey. If they do not then you must scourge the woman. Also:

4:43 O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter, nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying upon the road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have touched women, and ye find not water, then go to high clean soil and rub your faces and your hands (therewith). Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.

You must not pray to Allah if you have just touched a woman for you are dirty and must wash, if no water is found at the time you pray, then you must find clean dirt to rub on yourself.

 

[bandaidwoman]

Here are some equally offensive passages about polygamy and women's inferior status in the JudeoChristian bible


Genesis 3:16: Adam's role is to be Eve's master. The King James Version (KJV), New International Version (NIV), and Revised Standard Version (RSV) use the term "rule" to describe Adam's role over Eve: "...thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

. In Genesis 4:19, Lamech became the first known polygamist when he took two wives. Subsequent men who took multiple wives included: Esau with 3 wives; Jacob: 2; Ashur: 2; Gideon: many; Elkanah: 2; David: many; Solomon: 700 wives of royal birth; Rehaboam: 3; Abijah: 14. Jehoram, Joash, Ahab, Jeholachin and Belshazzar also had multiple wives.
A man could marry (literally "become the master of the woman") as often as he desired



Genesis 19:8: The men of Sodom gathered around Lot's house, and asked that he bring his two guests out so that the men can "know" them. Lot offers his two virgin daughters to be raped instead:

Yet, even after this despicable act, Lot is still regarded as an honorable man, worth saving from the destruction of the city. Allowing one's daughters to be sexually assaulted by multiple rapists appears to be treated as a minor transgression, because of the low status of the young women.


Exodus 20 & 21: This is perhaps the most misogynistic pair of chapters in the Bible. A number of verses describe a woman as the property of her father. At marriage, her ownership was transferred to her new husband:


Exodus 21:2-4: "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing....If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself." A slaveowner was permitted to give a woman to his male slave as a wife. There is no indication that women were consulted during this type of transaction. After serving six years, he would leave, but his wife and children would remain slaves of the slaveowner. Again, there is no indication that the woman was consulted on this arrangement

Exodus 21:7: "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do." A father could sell his daughter as a slave. Even though a male slave is automatically given his freedom after 6 years, a female slave remained a slave forever.

Leviticus 12:1-5 Quotes God as stating that a woman who has given birth to a boy is ritually unclean for 7 days. If the baby is a girl, the mother is unclean for 14 days. "If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days...But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks..." It would appear that the act of having a baby is a highly polluting act. To give birth to a girl is twice as polluting as is giving birth to a boy.






Deuteronomy 21:10-13 describes how a soldier can force a woman captive to marry him without regard for her wishes. "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife."


Deuteronomy 22:13-21 requires that a woman be a virgin when she is married. If she has had sexual relations while single in her father's house, then she would be stoned to death. There were no similar virginity requirements for men. "


During the Second Temple period, women were not allowed to testify in court trials. They could not go out in public, or talk to strangers. When outside of their homes, they were to be doubly veiled. "They had become second-class Jews, excluded from the worship and teaching of God, with status scarcely above that of slaves."

This last bit sounds familiar, no? Both the Quran and the JudeoChristian books have passages that can be exploited by radical priests/rabbis/etc.

 

[F41]

Bandaidwoman; As I have stated in post #3, This is a topic on Muslims and Islam, if you wish to debate this on Christianity, then please take it to the many threads already on this board.

Please do not spin the topic to defend Islam or Muslims.

The topic is on Islam, there are many topics on Christianity here, but I would like to not spin this to debate any other religion?

 

[Aleem]

True Muslims are "Slaves" to Allah and must do as Allah teaches, that is to fight and destroy unbelievers.

Only an ignorant can say such words.

 

[bandaidwoman]

Ok the Phoenix here it is. You bought up the Qur'an's injunctions against women here is mine.

I remember reading the Qur'an when I lived in Malaysia and reading about Mohammad's second in command who was a great combat warrior and ...female.


The Qur'an is devoid of the stories found in the Old Testament which denigrate women. There is no hint that the first woman created by God is a creature of lesser worth than the first male, or that she is a kind of appendage formed from one of his ribs. Instead, male and female are created, we read, min nafsin wahidatin ("from a single soul or self") to complement each other (Qur'an 4:1; 7:189). Whereas the Torah or Old Testament treats Eve as the temptress of the Garden of Eden, who aids Satan in enticing Adam to disobey God, the Qur'an deals with the pair with perfect equity. Both are equally guilty of sinning; both are equally punished by God with expulsion from the Garden; and both are equally forgiven when they repent.


Here are some basic tenets that many non muslims realize :

Islam declared women and men equal.

Islam condemned pre-Islamic practices degrading and oppressing women.

The same injunctions and prohibitions of Islam equally apply to both sexes.

Islam gave woman the right of inheritance and the right of individual independent ownership unhampered by father, husband, brother, son or anyone else.

Islam gave women the right to accept or reject a marriage proposal free from pressure, and by mutual agreement to specify in the marriage contract that she has the right to divorce (if she misses that option she has the right to seek court divorce if she deems the marriage to have failed beyond repair). Unlike the old testament.

Islam does not require woman to change her name at marriage.

Islam protects the family and condemns the betrayal of marital fidelity.

"Heaven is at the feet of mothers", is a basic Islamic teaching.

"The best of you are the kindest to their wives and I am your best to mine", is a teaching by prophet Mohammad.

Islam enjoins sounds morality in thinking, behavior and appearance. Dress fashions and social patterns that reduce woman to a sex object and exploit her as such are not acceptable to Islam. (In fact, many of my profeminist women who are muslim credit the veil..if worn by choice and not threatened with death, can be very liberating since it is a method by which they are judged for their brains and not looks.)

I find the islamic religion somewhat pro feminist, yet it is often seen as the great oppressor of women. Why it's been corrupted into oppression of the female identity..(.welll, that's a whole big argument but I credit it to theocratic dogma that utilizes the Qu'ran to build its power base for the men in political power).



Between what Phoenix bought up and I bought up we see there are contradictions, but wait, we know it is not the only holy book with contradictions!



Granted, I'm not muslim, but I grew up in a Muslim country (Malaysia)

To this day my in my neighborhood I am flanked by a muslim pharmacist on my right and a muslim Dekalb county Sheriff and her realsestate husband on the other. Both are pacifists and don't believe in violence of any type. (And both have not tried to convert me unlike my born again neighbors across the street.:roll: ) I'm niether christian or muslim.

 

[F41]

Islam gave woman the right of inheritance and the right of individual independent ownership unhampered by father, husband, brother, son or anyone else.

4:11 Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females, and if there be women more than two, then theirs is two-thirds of the inheritance, and if there be one (only) then the half. And to each of his parents a sixth of the inheritance, if he have a son; and if he have no son and his parents are his heirs, then to his mother appertaineth the third; and if he have brethren, then to his mother appertaineth the sixth, after any legacy he may have bequeathed, or debt (hath been paid). Your parents and your children: Ye know not which of them is nearer unto you in usefulness. It is an injunction from Allah. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise.

If you are a Muslim, then you must obey the Quran. If one is a moderate Muslim they are simply a lax Muslim who does not follow the prescripts and tenets of the Islamic "faith." The Quran states that woman get half of the inheritance then males do. If they change Allah's laws to counter that of the "Great Allah" then they are prepared for them a great doom in hellfire according to the Quran.

Make no mistake, Islam is a best understood as a hate cult with the capacity to destroy civilization.

 

[F41]

Only an ignorant can say such words.

The Quran is replete with commands to wage war against the infidel (non Muslim) wherever you may find them. Do not be ignorant yourself.

 

[Aleem]

More from the Quran:

4:2 Give unto orphans their wealth. Exchange not the good for the bad (in your management thereof) nor absorb their wealth into your own wealth. Lo! that would be a great sin. Give to orphans and don't steal from them.
4:3 And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.

A man is allowed to marry multiple women, thus are owners of them as there property

Simply, You know nothing about islam. Please, Just refer to these links:

Polygamy and Polyandry
Polygamy between Islam and the West
Between Polygyny and Polyandry
Four Wives, Why Not Four Husbands?!

4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property. So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

According to the Quran, Men rule the woman and woman must obey. If they do not then you must scourge the woman.

Obedience within Loving Marriages
Rights of a wife
“Beat” Them Lightly?

4:43 O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter, nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying upon the road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have touched women, and ye find not water, then go to high clean soil and rub your faces and your hands (therewith). Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.

You must not pray to Allah if you have just touched a woman for you are dirty and must wash, if no water is found at the time you pray, then you must find clean dirt to rub on yourself.

I don't know from where you brought your translation. Here the verse you mentioned is: "O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say,- nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (Except when travelling on the road), until after washing your whole body. If ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands. For Allah doth blot out sins and forgive again and again."

 

[MSgt]

One cannot hope to define Islam by the scriptures of the Qur'an. Like any religion's "sacred" scripts, one could easliy use the Bible's Old Testament to portray Christians as violent psychos. Islam’s inherent divisiveness lends itself to radical interpretation of the Qur’an and the Hadiths. These texts support a potential for violence not found in other major religions (Read Lippman) The Bible has a New Testament, so save the obtuse argument. However, the vast majority of Muslims world wide (80 to 99 percent) are not Radical and do not interpret these texts in the manner that has taken the Islamic center stage. (It is of note to recognize that the majority of Radicals are not terrorists - just supporters, which is where the terrorist hide and are recruited from.)

Our focus on the Middle East over the decades has been so exclusive that the majority has come to see Islam as defined by the Arab. But the Islam of the Middle East is as fixed, as unreflective, and ultimately as brittle as concrete. People don’t realize that Islam is the youngest of the world’s great religions, that it is still very much a work-in-progress. Islam is a vivid, dynamic, and vibrant religion of changing shape and potential and its forms are at least as various as the countless confessions and sects of Christendom. On the frontier fringes of the Middle East, Islam is struggling for an identity (You will find U.S. Marines in these places supporting the local more "moderate" governments).

Religious intolerance always returns in times of doubt and disorder. And in the Middle East, there is plenty of doubt and there is religious struggle. This struggle between religious forms and between prescriptive and repressive doctrine of faiths, is one of the two great strategic issues of our time—along with the redefinition of the socio-economic roles of women, their transition from being the property of men to being equal partners with men (which is the most profound social development in human history). (Read Peters) One should familiarize him/herself with what Islamic terrorists and Radicals think of women.

The hard-core terrorists spawned by the breakdown of the Middle East quote the Qu'ran. They wear Muslim garments. They perform the daily rituals prescribed by the faith into which they were born. The terrorists may believe that they're good Muslims — self-awareness is not a widespread human trait — but their deeds are those of the pagans Mohammed condemned. The attack on 9/11 and so many others are not a political act. It was a religious act, but it wasn't Islamic. This is a perversion. Bitter old men interpret and deform Islam's more humane precepts while embracing its cruelest injunctions. This type of interpretation is what has been stated earlier in the thread - a "good" Muslim is intolerable to other religions and sees the slaughter of "infidels" by "believers" as a divine intervention on earth. The general truth is that Arabs do not target children, however, there is enough of them that do and enough of them that support the murderers throughout the Middle East that have followed in their teachings.

Terrorist attacks are cult behavior from the dawn of civilization, employing modern tools. For all of their Muslim rantings, the terrorists of Al-Qaeda and its affiliates have returned to pre-Islamic practices, to behaviors that Moses, Christ and Mohammed uniformly rejected: They practice human sacrifice. We face a situation that is so perverse that it is as if tens of millions of frustrated Christians decided that Kali, the Hindu Goddess of death and destruction, embodies the true teachings of Jesus Christ.





People should take the time to understand what is presently occurring. I do not claim to fully understand, because as members of the free world, I cannot relate to the oppressions and the single dogmatic religious controlled Middle East. We cannot fight our enemy and their perverted ideals effectively if we do not have an understanding. Likewise, for all those majority of Muslims everywhere that aren't lifting a finger to rescue and protect their true faith from their zealots.

 

[bandaidwoman]

If you are a Muslim, then you must obey the Quran. If one is a moderate Muslim they are simply a lax Muslim who does not follow the prescripts and tenets of the Islamic "faith." The Quran states that woman get half of the inheritance then males do. If they change Allah's laws to counter that of the "Great Allah" then they are prepared for them a great doom in hellfire according to the Quran.

Make no mistake, Islam is a best understood as a hate cult with the capacity to destroy civilization.

To be honest, I try to have the least involvement with two of the most exclusionary religions there is (if you aren't christian/muslim you won't be saved). This is unlike Buddism. I am not buddist but my mother was and I like the fact that they are the only religion/philosophy that has never waged war in the name of its religion (The Quakers come second, but they aren't really Christians in the strict sense of the word and they are truley pacifistic) The finger pointing is really between the JudeoChristians and Muslims.

As far as I am concerned, Islam is in the throes of major transformation much like Christianity was in the dark middle ages. Let's hope the moderate and less fundamental factions win.

I could not have stated it better gysgt!:mrgreen:

 

[MSgt]

As far as I am concerned, Islam is in the throes of major transformation much like Christianity was in the dark middle ages. Let's hope the moderate and less fundamental factions win.

Your concerns, would be the same concerns shared by scholars, religious experts, social exports, and Middle Eastern study experts.

Ralph Peters has written a few good essays regarding this.

Very good observations.

 

[ColaBear]

Here are some equally offensive passages about polygamy and women's inferior status in the JudeoChristian bible


Yes, you are right about the Old testament.
tho we see the Koran has 'equaled' men and women, we don't see it being acted out in life very often.
Many of these laws in the OT were to protect women from the evil of man...example the case of virginity...the sheets were kept by her family to PROVE if her husband just up and decided he did not want her. He could state she was impure and send her packing BUT as soon as the sheet was revealed, he lost his case. therefore he got not shame her in that manner.
Men that abuse, neglect, press women down do it for their own personal agendas....their pride at feeling superior, their fragile little egos need to be fed. no matter where they come from in this life.
Extremists can ONLY be extremists if they have weaker vessels to lord it over.
If we were able to conquer the bullies ,then they run and tuck tail...we see it all the time.
I see men tuck and run when they meet a woman who is 'complete'.

Even in denominations here in America that claim to be Christian we find this ignorant attitude...that women are less, that God places a lesser value on them.
That women should all dress in croaker sacks. that women have no calling from God on their lives. that women are the scourge of man...want us to become asexual because our physical sexuality causes them to fear.

Men are responsible for their eyes and thoughts and lusts. Jesus said...IF you look on a woman to lust after her you have committed adultery....can't blame the woman..

The Perfect Lamb when he made His Blood Covenant changed ALL that.
Galatians 3:28 states ..."There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Some men would like to pretend that verse does not exist.

Also they do not understand Ephesians 5:25. For if they did they would be elevating women and giving them the respect they are entitled as Christ is dictating to them to do.

Women many times fail to see the little word 'own' in vs.22,24.

Men don't also like to be reminded of vs.21.
But then, those are ignorant men.

Men also like to refer to the verse...women are to be silent in church...but they do not know the truth behind those words nor that it was for that church. They would like to dictate how we dress and what we are allowed to do and be.

Genesis states that..'it is not good for man to be alone'...therefore in comes Eve.
man is incomplete without woman.

I believe it is every womans responsibility to learn who she is and what her value is to God. and then LIVE it.

To say there is no good Muslim would be an insult to all Muslims.
I am sure there ARE good Muslims as they obey the rules of their religion.
of course there are bad also.
AND there are good and bad Christians and Jews.
It is the sad lot in this life that we have to deal with IMperfect humanity...including myself.
a degree of patience and tolerance is needed more by people.