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Do entitlements help the poor get out of poverty?

AdamT

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Due to our current economy, yes you have a point. But in nomal times, there are plenty of poor people who simply prefer to live off of Uncle Sam that to work.

I'm wondering how they do that, given that there's a two year limit on welfare?
 

U.S. Socialist.

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I'm wondering how they do that, given that there's a two year limit on welfare?
Maybe we should ask bank CEOs since they seem to do it a lot lately.
 

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True, there would be no welfare fraud if we didn't have welfare. That's pretty straightforward. Of course there would also be no safety not for people who are legitimately down on their luck and need assistance to get back on their feet. I think that a civilized society must put up with a degree of abuse in order to serve the truly needy. You don't throw a room full of people in jail because you know that one of them pinched a necklace.

We shouldn't give a room full of people free money just because one of them may be "down on their luck" either.

I just really can't think of a situation, aside from possibly medical problems or extended unemployement, that someone would be "down on their luck" to the point that they have a need to suck off of the taxpayer.

For about a year while I was attended college I literally lived in someones basement (no - not my parents, and I did pay rent). I literally ate bread and water and when I could afford it (like just after selling plasma) - beer. I eventually signed up for a military reserve unit, got back from training with a little cash in my pocket and a small monthly military paycheck and some additional montly money for going to college while being a member of a reserve unit. I got a nicer appartment, got my car fixed, got a job, and continued going to college. I started applying for jobs months before I finished college at age 22, I actually accepted a full time job as an assistant manager at McD's while still going to school. I spent a few years "working for the man", bought a house at age 23, and started my own business at age 25.

Now I have absolutely no special skill or gift. I can't spell (in case you havent noticed), I cant draw or paint or sing or dance or play music. I have a slight fear of heights and a humongus fear of public speaking (to the point of feeling like I am going to pass out). I don't have movie star good looks, I can't remember anything for more than 12 seconds, and I am clumsey. I've never inheriting anything and likely never will. Basically, I am pretty much a looser.

If a looser like me can aquire a middle class lifestyle, then anyone can. They just need to stop making excuses and do whatever it takes. Get an education, get a job (or two or three), save some cash, purchase transportation, and stop whining.
 

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Villiage Idiot
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I'm wondering how they do that, given that there's a two year limit on welfare?

Is there a two year limit on section 8 housing? Some people live in subsidised housing their entire life. Is there a two year limit on foodstamps (I dunno but my sister in-law has been on them off-and-on for 20 years). Is there a two year limit to medicade? Is there a two year limit to disability (most "disabled" people that I have met are perfectly capable of working a full time job)? Heck, even unemployment benefits can last more than two years. Fee and reduced price school lunch can last for well over a decade.

most of the time when we use the word "welfare" we are referring to all of these freebe entitlements, not just to one specific program.
 
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ender1

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Just saw on tv that the poverty level in 1965 was 14.3%. Today's poverty level is 14%. So, after trillions of dollars spent on entitlements, they don't help the poor get out of poverty. All they do is maintain the poor under the Democrat's wings during elections. Democrats don't care about u, they just use it as a gimmick for your vote.

What do you consider an entitlements. Some I may agree with (Welfare) but SS should be left alone. Its paid for mostly by the middle class and if you put in you should get out.
 

Captain America

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Sometimes entitlements help the poor get out of poverty. It's much easier to buy the gas to get to work if you don't have to buy baby formula with your gas money instead.

But, some people, I am convinced, are doomed to poverty regardless and look upon welfare as an entitlement. The only thing we are entitled to is the SS and Medicare and veteran benefits we put into and are due. Most any thing else should be considered a helping hand from a compassionate culture and not be considered an owed way of life.

I got so pissed once at a lady who was in our local post office, raising hell at Holly working behind the counter because her welfare didn't arrive on the day it was supposed to arrive. "Where's MY check?"
 

Renae

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What do you consider an entitlements. Some I may agree with (Welfare) but SS should be left alone. Its paid for mostly by the middle class and if you put in you should get out.

SS Has unfunded liabilities of 66Trillion, how the **** are we gonna pay for that huh? Just hope that we figure it out? Some magical fix will keep it going? It's all ready running unfundable deficits. But oh no, we can't touch it!

GROW THE **** UP. SS is crashing, we HAVE TO fix it.
 

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What do you consider an entitlements. Some I may agree with (Welfare) but SS should be left alone. Its paid for mostly by the middle class and if you put in you should get out.

A "good libertarian" would never support the concept of social security and would probably suggest that we somehow phase out social security over a period of a generation or so.

Now I'm not a libertarian. I actually do believe that it is a reasonable duty of our government to provide as a service to our citizens, "old age insurance". That was origionally what social security was supposed to be. It was never intended to be a retirement plan, no one ever expected that most people would ever draw it, and it was expected that those who did manage to reach age 65 wouldn't draw it for every long.

But insurance is something that should cover an event that is statistically unlikey happen. Not something that is highly likely to happen, like reaching age 65. Insurance should be fairly inexpensive, it most certainly shouldnt cost 12% of our earnings.

Personally, if I were king, I would start transforming social security into old age insurance. Every four months I would advance the age of retirement by one month, while simultaniously decreasing the social security tax rate until there is no longer a social security tax (maybe a reduction of a quarter of a percent per year). In 10 years one couldn't retire til age 67 and a half, in twenty years it would be age 70, in thirty years it would be age 72.5, in fourty years it would be age 75, etc. This age advancement could probably last virtually forever because our lifespans are continualing lengthening.
 

ender1

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SS Has unfunded liabilities of 66Trillion, how the **** are we gonna pay for that huh? Just hope that we figure it out? Some magical fix will keep it going? It's all ready running unfundable deficits. But oh no, we can't touch it!

GROW THE **** UP. SS is crashing, we HAVE TO fix it.

The rich do not pay SS. The poor do not pay SS. If, for the last several decades, we have taxed the middle class ONLY then stop taking SS and give the $ back. Otherwise its just a special tax on working class Americans.
 

ender1

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A "good libertarian" would never support the concept of social security and would probably suggest that we somehow phase out social security over a period of a generation or so.

Now I'm not a libertarian. I actually do believe that it is a reasonable duty of our government to provide as a service to our citizens, "old age insurance". That was origionally what social security was supposed to be. It was never intended to be a retirement plan, no one ever expected that most people would ever draw it, and it was expected that those who did manage to reach age 65 wouldn't draw it for every long.

But insurance is something that should cover an event that is statistically unlikey happen. Not something that is highly likely to happen, like reaching age 65. Insurance should be fairly inexpensive, it most certainly shouldnt cost 12% of our earnings.

Personally, if I were king, I would start transforming social security into old age insurance. Every four months I would advance the age of retirement by one month, while simultaniously decreasing the social security tax rate until there is no longer a social security tax (maybe a reduction of a quarter of a percent per year). In 10 years one couldn't retire til age 67 and a half, in twenty years it would be age 70, in thirty years it would be age 72.5, in fourty years it would be age 75, etc. This age advancement could probably last virtually forever because our lifespans are continualing lengthening.

I do not support the concept of SS but to me the issue is false promisses. We created a special tax for SS on working class americans and used the money to fund gov programs instead of putting the money in a safe place. Now we are going through tough times and the first thing some are sayings is "Lets default on our promise of SS retirement after people have paid in for decades".

If we did not tax for it in the first place I would say kill it right now.
 

VanceMack

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I love how you don't complain about corporate well-fare. Especially when it was Wall Street and other corporations that helped ruin our economy. Oh, and as for the illegal immigrant issue I support the Dream Act.

It would have taken far less typing to say "OK...this is where I admit you win...so...I'm going to spin everything else off in a completely different direction..."
 

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It would have taken far less typing to say "OK...this is where I admit you win...so...I'm going to spin everything else off in a completely different direction..."
You don't win. I've already shown that countries with stronger social-safety nets don't necessary have higher unemployment. That was the basis of the OP's claim. That is not true. Now this is an argument about Social-security which is supported by the pay roll tax and is solvent for the next 30 years or so.
 

VanceMack

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You don't win. I've already shown that countries with stronger social-safety nets don't necessary have higher unemployment. That was the basis of the OP's claim. That is not true. Now this is an argument about Social-security which is supported by the pay roll tax and is solvent for the next 30 years or so.

You show an apple to dumptruck comparison, then spin off on some rant about corporate welfare. Take your whiny corporate welfare bull**** up w/ Obama and GE.
 

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You show an apple to dumptruck comparison, then spin off on some rant about corporate welfare. Take your whiny corporate welfare bull**** up w/ Obama and GE.
Gee Bush is the one who bailed out the banks with his TARP program. I think he should have let them fail. I'm sorry if you ignore facts to suit your agenda. However, the fact remains that five countries that have a much stronger social-safety net than us have lower unemployment.
 

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Hmm, so what should be do about the people who didn't EARN theirs, but just got it by virtue of having a rich daddy?

thus the importance of the inheritance tax. We need one. A big one.
 

TurtleDude

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Yes and capitalism doesn't at all encourage greed or avarice does it?

among the have nots probably. but it hasn't killed 100 Million people in the last 100 years like authoritarian collectivism has
 

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Time for Turtledude to tell me how jealous I am.
 

TurtleDude

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thus the importance of the inheritance tax. We need one. A big one.

a usual cry from those who are mad that their parents weren't thrifty. what gives you the right to plunder something you didn't earn other than spite?
 

TurtleDude

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Time for Turtledude to tell me how jealous I am.

you whine constantly about others who inherited wealth. I find those who are fans of the inheritance tax to have issues
 

U.S. Socialist.

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among the have nots probably. but it hasn't killed 100 Million people in the last 100 years like authoritarian collectivism has
First of all you can't seriously try to claim that capitialism does not encourage greed or avarice. Your point about authoritarian collectivism is a bit a strawman since it distracts from the actual question which was does capitalism encourage greed or not.
 

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Sometimes I feel that I am the master of this game. When I know what someone is going to type before they have even typed it. It makes me feel like I have special superhero powers.

Yes TD, apparently I do have some "issues".
 

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First of all you can't seriously try to claim that capitialism does not encourage greed or avarice. Your point about authoritarian collectivism is a bit a strawman since it distracts from the actual question which was does capitalism encourage greed or not.

I haven't followed the thread but your question caught my eye.

I would say greed and avarice are character flaws, human behavior that can be found even in welfare states. If the only source of gain or sustenance, is a government entitlement, we will fight over who deserves a bigger slice of entitlement pie. That's still greed and avarice. Or in the commune model. Aren't there those even there who seek to do as little work as possible while taking a share of what is produced?
 

Bassman

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First of all what source are you getting your information from? Second of all what is the Republican plan to help the poor? Let' the vaunted "free market" help them. However let me say this entitlements aren't the answer. The system itself is broken and creates poverty. Capitalism will always create poverty. For the poor to be free capitalism must be abolished. The elites need as many poor people as possible. They want people who are desperate to work no mater the wages or conditions. We are in seeing the surplus army of labor Marx talked about.
Oh puh-leeze! Give us a frigging break, Bolshevik. If you love communism that much, move to Cuba. Ther's a commie success story for ya.
 

U.S. Socialist.

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Oh puh-leeze! Give us a frigging break, Bolshevik. If you love communism that much, move to Cuba. Ther's a commie success story for ya.
Based on the fact that you think the democrats are in anyway Communists I'm sure you know nothing about Communism. Let me to educate you just a little. Cuba is Stalinst state, Trotsky hated Stalin and Stalinism and as my avatar shows I'm much closer to being a Trotskyst than a Stalinist.
 

AdamT

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We shouldn't give a room full of people free money just because one of them may be "down on their luck" either.

I just really can't think of a situation, aside from possibly medical problems or extended unemployement, that someone would be "down on their luck" to the point that they have a need to suck off of the taxpayer.

For about a year while I was attended college I literally lived in someones basement (no - not my parents, and I did pay rent). I literally ate bread and water and when I could afford it (like just after selling plasma) - beer. I eventually signed up for a military reserve unit, got back from training with a little cash in my pocket and a small monthly military paycheck and some additional montly money for going to college while being a member of a reserve unit. I got a nicer appartment, got my car fixed, got a job, and continued going to college. I started applying for jobs months before I finished college at age 22, I actually accepted a full time job as an assistant manager at McD's while still going to school. I spent a few years "working for the man", bought a house at age 23, and started my own business at age 25.

Now I have absolutely no special skill or gift. I can't spell (in case you havent noticed), I cant draw or paint or sing or dance or play music. I have a slight fear of heights and a humongus fear of public speaking (to the point of feeling like I am going to pass out). I don't have movie star good looks, I can't remember anything for more than 12 seconds, and I am clumsey. I've never inheriting anything and likely never will. Basically, I am pretty much a looser.

If a looser like me can aquire a middle class lifestyle, then anyone can. They just need to stop making excuses and do whatever it takes. Get an education, get a job (or two or three), save some cash, purchase transportation, and stop whining.

I understand what you're saying, but there are many scenarios where people can find themselves in trouble temporarily. It can happen as a result of a divorce, or medical problem, or a layoff.... Many different ways. In your case you were a young student with few obligations. It's a different story if you have little mouths to feed, a mortgage, credit card payments, and all the rest.
 
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