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Do Conservatives Understand the Concept of Corruption?

He said he didn't care about the laws that the SDNY is looking into. That is not out of context in anyway shape or form.

sigh...

You really should quit lying.

I mean, seriously...I presented his exact words. He said nothing about not caring about any laws.
 
sigh...

You really should quit lying.

I mean, seriously...I presented his exact words. He said nothing about not caring about any laws.

Not sure what you think I don't care means.... But I don't care about this conversation anymore...
 
Not sure what you think I don't care means.... But I don't care about this conversation anymore...

It certainly doesn't mean the nonsense and lies that you keep spouting.

But hey...you not caring about this conversation suits me just fine.
 
I work for a very conservative organization that has seen it's fair share of scandals itself, and oftentimes I hear from my co-workers that the Democrats are very very corrupt without offering any evidence. We currently have a President who is under investigation by the SDNY and the FBI for corruption issues. Donald Trump and his supporters meet both definitions of corruption provided by google:



As related to Trump the concept of definition #1 can be easily proven by *new* headlines just from the past week and is interesting that Google's example is that of the journalists exposing said corruption when we often hear conservatives go after them for dubious reasons for for simple mistakes. Then you have Orin Hatch who had said that he doesn't care that Trump may have broken the law when such is obvious.

2. is quite interesting in that a changing of the meaning of words is also a definition of corruption as Trump and his followers often change the definition of words or alter their meaning. Just this weekend Trump supporters were going crazy because liberals were saying Trump cannot spell smoking. He miss-typed smocking. Then most of the Trump supporters tried to say that Trump purposefully wrote the word in order to troll liberals and that it's a secret message only they understand but cannot agree on. Not to mention their concept of fake news.

This leads me to believe that few conservative everyday people actually understand the concept if they think Democrats are more corrupt than Trump. One can even argue that not caring Trump may have broken laws is just as corrupt as having broken the law yourself.

When it comes to Trump, I'm kind of ambivalent. I don't care for the man, but I don't hate him either. I'm more angry at the choices provided in 2016 which made this nation choose between Trump and Hillary. I hate that more than Trump, Trump is just a result, a consequence of those choices.

Corruption, is Trump corrupt, I don't know. I seen the Democrats set out to destroy him the day after the election. Then I seen tons of very partisan propaganda coming from both sides when it comes to Trump. So much propaganda it is impossible to believe anyone or anything. So I basically ignore both sides. I seen the media, the news networks divided into pro and anti Trump camps. Where reporting the straight political news, fairly, fully and accurately isn't done. Where all you get is more propaganda and ultra partisan spiel. Enough propaganda that each side here would make Joseph Gobbles proud.

What I have seen is the democrats willing to destroy this nation if that means destroying Trump. That the republicans are willing to destroy this nation if that means saving Trump. Folks, we all are headed down the road to destruction regardless of who wins here.
 
You listed a dozen democrats from the last 100 years. Trump has committed more corruption than all of them combined.

I did no such thing. I cut a piece off a much larger list with many on both sides of the aisle so as to be under the 5k limit.

Lets see your evidence.
 
Good morning, hope you're well.
Thanks for asking; I'm fine. Hope you are, too. It's good to see you again, John. I very much respect your conservative opinion, and always found it principled.

Seriously, after your country's shameful process involving Bill Clinton in the 90's it's pretty rich to complain that conservatives respond "but the economy" when discussing anything related to Trump malfeasance. Democrats and leftists in America made it "noble" to be a scoundrel so long as the economy was booming.
Actually I was not a Clinton fan during this time, and thought he desecrated the oval office. I was abhorred by his actions, and found them not becoming of the office. If I had my way, I'd have seen him removed. I'm dead serious about that.

Republicans, to the contrary, when similarly faced with a scoundrel in the oval office, worked in unison with the left to impeach President Nixon who saw the writing on the wall and resigned to avoid being impeached. Had Democrats worked in unison with Republicans to impeach and/or force President Clinton from office, you may have a leg to stand on - as it is, you don't.
1974 was a long time ago, my friend. I do not see the Republicans acting in like staid with Trump.

But straight-up, I hate to get too deep into party politics debate. They both have sucked for a long time, and I was an Indie for quite a few years. I only very recently re-joined the Dems as an obstruction to Trump and what I see as Republican aiding & abetting. I just came to the conclusion that the Dems were the only way to stop Trump.

However that being said, I have gotten some glimmers of hope and genuine excitement with the recent spate of new Dem candidates and platforms in the recent election. I'm pretty excited to see a party that can cast a big enough tent to fit both Oscaio-Cortez and Conner Lamb! In fact, I'd like it to expand even further to include moderate conservatives too. I would be extremely happy and proud to be a member of that party. :thumbs:
 
I work for a very conservative organization that has seen it's fair share of scandals itself, and oftentimes I hear from my co-workers that the Democrats are very very corrupt without offering any evidence. We currently have a President who is under investigation by the SDNY and the FBI for corruption issues. Donald Trump and his supporters meet both definitions of corruption provided by google:



As related to Trump the concept of definition #1 can be easily proven by *new* headlines just from the past week and is interesting that Google's example is that of the journalists exposing said corruption when we often hear conservatives go after them for dubious reasons for for simple mistakes. Then you have Orin Hatch who had said that he doesn't care that Trump may have broken the law when such is obvious.

2. is quite interesting in that a changing of the meaning of words is also a definition of corruption as Trump and his followers often change the definition of words or alter their meaning. Just this weekend Trump supporters were going crazy because liberals were saying Trump cannot spell smoking. He miss-typed smocking. Then most of the Trump supporters tried to say that Trump purposefully wrote the word in order to troll liberals and that it's a secret message only they understand but cannot agree on. Not to mention their concept of fake news.

This leads me to believe that few conservative everyday people actually understand the concept if they think Democrats are more corrupt than Trump. One can even argue that not caring Trump may have broken laws is just as corrupt as having broken the law yourself.


No amount of facts matter to many conservatives, when they have Fox new filling their heads with BS and hating all things liberals. They are flaming hypocrites. They project too, they know their side is dirty and corrupt as hell, so they project that its the dems. Just like all the loser yelling lock her up while its all Trumps people being locked up, because they are actually guilty.

They have no shame, no honesty, no integrity, and no facts
 
Thanks for asking; I'm fine. Hope you are, too. It's good to see you again, John. I very much respect your conservative opinion, and always found it principled.

Actually I was not a Clinton fan during this time, and thought he desecrated the oval office. I was abhorred by his actions, and found them not becoming of the office. If I had my way, I'd have seen him removed. I'm dead serious about that.

1974 was a long time ago, my friend. I do not see the Republicans acting in like staid with Trump.

But straight-up, I hate to get too deep into party politics debate. They both have sucked for a long time, and I was an Indie for quite a few years. I only very recently re-joined the Dems as an obstruction to Trump and what I see as Republican aiding & abetting. I just came to the conclusion that the Dems were the only way to stop Trump.

However that being said, I have gotten some glimmers of hope and genuine excitement with the recent spate of new Dem candidates and platforms in the recent election. I'm pretty excited to see a party that can cast a big enough tent to fit both Oscaio-Cortez and Conner Lamb! In fact, I'd like it to expand even further to include moderate conservatives too. I would be extremely happy and proud to be a member of that party. :thumbs:

You're right, 1974 was a long time ago, both in the integrity of politicians and the tenor of the media. I'm not yet certain the media has it right with respect to Trump/Russia and clearly, in my view, the FBI under Comey was highly political. If, however, the Mueller report, if it ever comes, has unimpeachable impeachable evidence, I've got confidence in the Republicans in the Senate to do a far better job of removing the President than the Senate Democrats did in the 1990's.
 
YES - conservatives understand what corruption is and why it is bad. But like Orrin Hatch - they simply do not care when it comes to Trump and their own kind.

Ah, an intelligently written post that accomplishes nothing other than to personally insult people who you disagree with, and clearly don't understand. The whole reason we DONT blindly support democrats and their advocates in the 'news' media, is ENTIRELY motivated by a severe hatred of corruption! This thread is just more evidence that conservatives aren't the ones who leftists should be most concerned with. The OP claimed that pretty much all examples of democratic party corruption are dubious or fabricated, with no evidence to back them up. Well, I've personally posted many articles and videos that CLEARLY expose corruption on the part of democrats, but some progressives here simply refuse to accept ANY corruption on the part of democrats, even when it's objectively proven to them!

I'll personally undermine YOUR claim that conservatives "don't care about corruption", by pointing to MY OWN THREAD posted just a day or 2 after GW Bush died, where I clearly stated the world would be better off with fewer Bushes! I criticized the Iraq war, and I think I even speculated that they may be personally benefiting from the Afghan opiate market!

Trump lied about the number of jobs that would be lost if we don't sell weapons to Saudi Arabia, by continually revising the number of jobs. He gets FAR too involved in verbal battles with democrats and partisan progressives in Hollywood and the news media. But where are all the criticisms from the media of the more frequent, insulting comments being constantly offered up against Trump, republicans and conservatives, by democrats and leftists?

I seem to recall posting a thread that PROVED that Susan Rice, Obama and Hillary had repeatedly lied about the Ben Ghazi attacks, almost a week after the attack, on national tv, DENYING that it was a terrorist attack. I else recall progressives here who STILL denied that they were lying, even with dated video proof!

BTW, here's more video of Trey Gowdy questioning James Comey under oath, and exposing and PROVING that Hillary lied many, MANY times over her covert private server email scandal: So let's see how many people want to claim that she wasn't lying:

 
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You're right, 1974 was a long time ago, both in the integrity of politicians and the tenor of the media. I'm not yet certain the media has it right with respect to Trump/Russia and clearly, in my view, the FBI under Comey was highly political. If, however, the Mueller report, if it ever comes, has unimpeachable impeachable evidence, I've got confidence in the Republicans in the Senate to do a far better job of removing the President than the Senate Democrats did in the 1990's.

You may recall the contrast between how the media behaved during the Ken Starr/Bill Clinton investigation, as opposed to the 'Russian collusion'/ Trump investigation. The media sided with Clinton from the beginning, and they did everything they could to discredit and undermine Ken Starr and the investigation. Contrast that with this investigation, and you see a media who are 100% supportive of the investigation, as they exaggerate, sensationalize and manipulate and even fabricate information. They omit any details that discredit the investigation on a daily basis.

Of course they have little to no criticism on the incredibly corrupt investigation of Hillary's covert server, which was run by supportive partisans, who admitted that they had already decided NOT to prosecute her before they had even begun the investigation! It was performed in a highly irregular manner, with Comey refusing to seat a grand jury as is customary, instead he made himself the sole arbiter of her legal fate, already having decided not to prosecute! A grand jury most certainly WOULD have indicted her, which is why he avoided them! BTW, pretty much NONE of those investigators are currently employed by the FBI, because they were either fired or resigned!
 
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Corruption is endemic to virtually all levels of government, in some shape or form, and in both parties...
 
No amount of facts matter to many conservatives, when they have Fox new filling their heads with BS and hating all things liberals. They are flaming hypocrites. They project too, they know their side is dirty and corrupt as hell, so they project that its the dems. Just like all the loser yelling lock her up while its all Trumps people being locked up, because they are actually guilty.

They have no shame, no honesty, no integrity, and no facts

Remind me, where is the evidence of Trump related "Russian collusion"? The Mueller investigation has clearly been a partisan witch hunt, supported by hyper-partisan narcissists in the news media. The whole investigation is based on a discredited opposition research dossier that was put together initially by a republican, but then purchased and greatly expanded by Hillary and the DNC. That dossier includes alleged negative information about Trump, sourced from THE RUSSIANS! In other words, Hillary was getting foreign op-research from Ukraine and Russia, which was used as "insurance" to take down Trump, in case Hillary didn't win! When they applied for a wire tap, the FBI refused to disclose the evidence they were basing their application on, then lied about it for 2 years!

Let me clear this up for you. The whole "Russia Collusion" investigation is supposed to prove that Trump aquired op-research on Hillary, from Russian sources(which isn't even illegal to my knowledge). But the whole investigation is based on op-research from Russian sources, bought and paid for by Hillary and the DNC!

In other words, Trump is being investigated for 'allegedly' doing exactly the same thing that we KNOW Hillary was doing!
 
Corruption is endemic to virtually all levels of government, in some shape or form, and in both parties...

Nope...... It only exists in republican circles, just ask around!! Lol
 
Nope...... It only exists in republican circles, just ask around!! Lol

Did you see me bring up the name of either party in my post?
The fact that more of it exists in "that party" as opposed to "this party" is a secondary issue and a symptom of a larger problem that needs attention.
 
Ah, an intelligently written post that accomplishes nothing other than to personally insult people who you disagree with, and clearly don't understand. The whole reason we DONT blindly support democrats and their advocates in the 'news' media, is ENTIRELY motivated by a severe hatred of corruption! This thread is just more evidence that conservatives aren't the ones who leftists should be most concerned with. The OP claimed that pretty much all examples of democratic party corruption are dubious or fabricated, with no evidence to back them up. Well, I've personally posted many articles and videos that CLEARLY expose corruption on the part of democrats, but some progressives here simply refuse to accept ANY corruption on the part of democrats, even when it's objectively proven to them!

I'll personally undermine YOUR claim that conservatives "don't care about corruption", by pointing to MY OWN THREAD posted just a day or 2 after GW Bush died, where I clearly stated the world would be better off with fewer Bushes! I criticized the Iraq war, and I think I even speculated that they may be personally benefiting from the Afghan opiate market!

Trump lied about the number of jobs that would be lost if we don't sell weapons to Saudi Arabia, by continually revising the number of jobs. He gets FAR too involved in verbal battles with democrats and partisan progressives in Hollywood and the news media. But where are all the criticisms from the media of the more frequent, insulting comments being constantly offered up against Trump, republicans and conservatives, by democrats and leftists?

I seem to recall posting a thread that PROVED that Susan Rice, Obama and Hillary had repeatedly lied about the Ben Ghazi attacks, almost a week after the attack, on national tv, DENYING that it was a terrorist attack. I else recall progressives here who STILL denied that they were lying, even with dated video proof!

BTW, here's more video of Trey Gowdy questioning James Comey under oath, and exposing and PROVING that Hillary lied many, MANY times over her covert private server email scandal: So let's see how many people want to claim that she wasn't lying:



Glad to see you condemn corruption.
 
You're right, 1974 was a long time ago, both in the integrity of politicians and the tenor of the media. I'm not yet certain the media has it right with respect to Trump/Russia and clearly, in my view, the FBI under Comey was highly political. If, however, the Mueller report, if it ever comes, has unimpeachable impeachable evidence, I've got confidence in the Republicans in the Senate to do a far better job of removing the President than the Senate Democrats did in the 1990's.
I have to say the bolded is quite a phrase! But I know exactly what you're saying. And no, I really don't see an impeachment. I suspect we're going to see a report with tons of dirty and illegal stuff related to finance and even Russia, but no hard collusion. I do think it will be damaging enough to keep Trump from prevailing in 2020. But right now when evaluated in totality, I personally think we're most of the way there (Trump 2020 loss).
 
This leads me to believe that few conservative everyday people actually understand the concept if they think Democrats are more corrupt than Trump. One can even argue that not caring Trump may have broken laws is just as corrupt as having broken the law yourself.

"Do conservatives understand the concept of corruption?"

ABSOLUTELY.
Rational, morally grounded and patriotic conservatives do indeed understand the concept of corruption, and they despise it to the marrow of their bones. They are averse to and eschew corruption wholesale every bit as much as any rational and morally grounded liberal does. These conservatives despise sham and can spot it in a minute.

THE PROBLEM:
Most Trump Republicans are not your typical conservatives.
They possess a seething hatred of anything to do with government except as a means to an end which benefits them, and they are eager to tear down any administrative structure that stands in the way of that purpose.

To them, government consists of only that which leverages a class advantage apart from any moral or legal standard because to them, the concept of law itself is only that which is spelled by the victors, setting aside any past or present pretense at traditional and legal norms by virtue of said past norms being declared null by their victory.
For them, power is the law itself as it is uttered from their mouths as they speak it. It is a monarchical and parochial form of revanchist undertaking that seeks to negate all that preceded their ascension to that power.

For the Trumpian, decree is all that is needed to assert the color of authority. The law itself, and the legal framework that is resides in, are meaningless, because they see themselves as existing above it, having in their minds earned the right to conduct themselves above it.

The concept of corruption is nonexistent because to them, if you have acquired power, you cannot possibly be corrupt.
Corruption is only that which they define as such, and all others, who are perceived as being below them, do not have the right to pronounce anything corrupt to begin with.
 
Why would you work for a company who has the values you despise?

Same reason I have done the same in the past: They paid US dollars and they paid well and on time.
As a liberal, I went through TUMS like they were candy during the ten years I lived and worked in North Texas, shooting and editing for clients who were clearly my polar opposite. I even shot and edited a series of campaign spots for outright secessionists like Larry Kilgore.

I shot and edited videos for groups that were advocating armed takeover of the United States Government with the intent of establishing "Washington on the Brazos" as the new capital.

I shot and edited countless Tea Party clips and infomercials and I also shot and edited their numerous gold bug scam shows that played on QVC and elsewhere.

I won awards for shooting and editing music videos for defense contractors who built equipment for the Army, and while I found that aspect of the job rewarding and honorable, listening to the top level management and how they talked turned my stomach.
But I cashed their checks and helped provide for my family, and the checks kept coming even as a couple of those execs at those companies went under investigation for embezzlement and other fraud.
So I kept my head down and my mouth shut and kept working.

Do I draw the line somewhere? Sure...if the local Klan had asked me to do some work (Yes, there IS a Klan active in Mansfield TX) I would have refused.

I also don't believe in organized religion either, but one of the nicest clients I ever had during those ten years in North Texas was a gospel celebrity named Fred Hammond. He treated everyone very well, and not only paid on time, he sometimes paid ahead of time and sometimes paid out unexpected bonuses to show his appreciation.
I admired his musical gifts and his passion, but I wasn't the least bit interested in being saved by his message.
But he was a kind and decent man and I wish him nothing but the very best.

If he comes out to Southern California looking to hire, I'd go back to work for him in a hot second, doing anything he asked.

fhamprison.jpg

l_4942e54e8ec3701ac135fe3b8bd18dd2.jpg
 
I have to say the bolded is quite a phrase! But I know exactly what you're saying. And no, I really don't see an impeachment. I suspect we're going to see a report with tons of dirty and illegal stuff related to finance and even Russia, but no hard collusion. I do think it will be damaging enough to keep Trump from prevailing in 2020. But right now when evaluated in totality, I personally think we're most of the way there (Trump 2020 loss).

I liked that phrase myself - quite proud of it LOL.

As for Trump, unless some miracle savior appears on the horizon to lead the Democrats, and Joe Biden isn't it, then I see Trump getting reelected. Other than the media's contrived scandals and 24/7 attacks on President Trump, the man has done a pretty good job. When you can agitate all of the regular bad actors in the world as well as totally frustrate your opposition at home, all while leading during an economic boom for the country as a whole, you're not likely going to be defeated by the usual candidate offerings.

I don't think Trump has lost even a small fraction of his "base" - they love what he's doing and his persona in office - the question will be whether or not the Democrats put up another total loser to run against him in 2020. Even way up here in Canada it was plain to see that Hillary Clinton would never be President - will Democrats make the same kind of mistake in 2020? If they're capable of nominating someone like Joe Biden, count on four more years of Trump. This will be especially true if the result of Mueller's two years of investigation lead to nothing related to the President - the backlash against the Democrats and their media toadies will be incredible.
 
I work for a very conservative organization that has seen it's fair share of scandals itself, and oftentimes I hear from my co-workers that the Democrats are very very corrupt without offering any evidence. We currently have a President who is under investigation by the SDNY and the FBI for corruption issues. Donald Trump and his supporters meet both definitions of corruption provided by google:



As related to Trump the concept of definition #1 can be easily proven by *new* headlines just from the past week and is interesting that Google's example is that of the journalists exposing said corruption when we often hear conservatives go after them for dubious reasons for for simple mistakes. Then you have Orin Hatch who had said that he doesn't care that Trump may have broken the law when such is obvious.

2. is quite interesting in that a changing of the meaning of words is also a definition of corruption as Trump and his followers often change the definition of words or alter their meaning. Just this weekend Trump supporters were going crazy because liberals were saying Trump cannot spell smoking. He miss-typed smocking. Then most of the Trump supporters tried to say that Trump purposefully wrote the word in order to troll liberals and that it's a secret message only they understand but cannot agree on. Not to mention their concept of fake news.

This leads me to believe that few conservative everyday people actually understand the concept if they think Democrats are more corrupt than Trump. One can even argue that not caring Trump may have broken laws is just as corrupt as having broken the law yourself.

Do we understand the concept of corruption?

Yes.

We watched Felonious Bill and Criminal Hillary for 20-years.

We watched the DoJ, FBI and IRS under Obama.

Yep... watching Democrats makes it impossible to not know corruption.
 
I liked that phrase myself - quite proud of it LOL.
And you should be. :thumbs:

As for Trump, unless some miracle savior appears on the horizon to lead the Democrats, and Joe Biden isn't it, then I see Trump getting reelected. Other than the media's contrived scandals and 24/7 attacks on President Trump, the man has done a pretty good job. When you can agitate all of the regular bad actors in the world as well as totally frustrate your opposition at home, all while leading during an economic boom for the country as a whole, you're not likely going to be defeated by the usual candidate offerings.

I don't think Trump has lost even a small fraction of his "base" - they love what he's doing and his persona in office - the question will be whether or not the Democrats put up another total loser to run against him in 2020. Even way up here in Canada it was plain to see that Hillary Clinton would never be President - will Democrats make the same kind of mistake in 2020? If they're capable of nominating someone like Joe Biden, count on four more years of Trump. This will be especially true if the result of Mueller's two years of investigation lead to nothing related to the President - the backlash against the Democrats and their media toadies will be incredible.
Well, that's interesting. Not that I don't see the rationale here, I do.
But I'm thinking Trump is looking weaker with Indies, and has greatly energized the Dem base. It won't take much difference this time to knock him off. Only several 10's of thousands in MI, WI, PA, all of which Trump received losses in the Midterms.

But you are right: The Dems must field a personable & attractive candidate. I'd personally love to vote for Biden. But I do take your concerns and opinions of him seriously. I hope I'm not letting my personal desires sway my analysis.
 
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