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Do Conservatives Understand the Concept of Corruption?

NeverTrump

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I work for a very conservative organization that has seen it's fair share of scandals itself, and oftentimes I hear from my co-workers that the Democrats are very very corrupt without offering any evidence. We currently have a President who is under investigation by the SDNY and the FBI for corruption issues. Donald Trump and his supporters meet both definitions of corruption provided by google:

1.
dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery.
"the journalist who wants to expose corruption in high places"
synonyms: dishonesty, unscrupulousness, double-dealing, fraud, fraudulence, misconduct, crime, criminality, wrongdoing; More

2.
the process by which something, typically a word or expression, is changed from its original use or meaning to one that is regarded as erroneous or debased.
synonyms: alteration, bastardization, debasement, adulteration
"these figures have been subject to corruption"

As related to Trump the concept of definition #1 can be easily proven by *new* headlines just from the past week and is interesting that Google's example is that of the journalists exposing said corruption when we often hear conservatives go after them for dubious reasons for for simple mistakes. Then you have Orin Hatch who had said that he doesn't care that Trump may have broken the law when such is obvious.

2. is quite interesting in that a changing of the meaning of words is also a definition of corruption as Trump and his followers often change the definition of words or alter their meaning. Just this weekend Trump supporters were going crazy because liberals were saying Trump cannot spell smoking. He miss-typed smocking. Then most of the Trump supporters tried to say that Trump purposefully wrote the word in order to troll liberals and that it's a secret message only they understand but cannot agree on. Not to mention their concept of fake news.

This leads me to believe that few conservative everyday people actually understand the concept if they think Democrats are more corrupt than Trump. One can even argue that not caring Trump may have broken laws is just as corrupt as having broken the law yourself.
 
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haymarket

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YES - conservatives understand what corruption is and why it is bad. But like Orrin Hatch - they simply do not care when it comes to Trump and their own kind.
 

NeverTrump

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YES - conservatives understand what corruption is and why it is bad. But like Orrin Hatch - they simply do not care when it comes to Trump and their own kind.

Got to give Hatch some credit for actually saying so out loud.
 

haymarket

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Got to give Hatch some credit for actually saying so out loud.

He is getting out of Dodge so he really does not care in more ways than just one.

For a US Senator to talk about possible crimes of a President and to say he doesn't care - that is a total betrayal of his oath of office and his responsibilities to the American people he represents.
 

Mycroft

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Then you have Orin Hatch who had said that he doesn't care that Trump may have broken the law when such is obvious.

Your post is chock full of spin and nonsense. If I wanted to waste a bunch of time, I could go through and slap each point upside the head. But I won't. I'll just deal with this prime example above.

You lie.

Hatch did not say "that he doesn't care that Trump may have broken the law when such is obvious". Not even close. Here is what he said:

Hatch dismisses allegations of Trump crimes over hush money.
Asked if he had any concerns, Hatch said: “The Democrats will do anything to hurt this president.” Told it was alleged by SDNY, Hatch told me: “Okay but I don’t care; all I can say is he’s doing a good job as President”
— Manu Raju (@mkraju) December 10, 2018

Hatch added this when asked if he was concerned about allegations.
“No because I don’t think he was involved in crimes but even then, you know, you can make anything a crime under the current laws; if you want to you can blow it way out of proportion you can do a lot of things.”
— Manu Raju (@mkraju) December 10, 2018

Hatch also told me: “President Trump before he became president that’s another world. Since he’s become president this economy has charged ahead. … And I think we ought to judge him on that basis other than trying to drum up things from the past that may or may not be true.”
— Manu Raju (@mkraju) December 10, 2018

Given your penchant for lying, I suggest you keep your mouth shut when the watercooler conversation comes round to politics.
 

akyron

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I work for a very conservative organization that has seen it's fair share of scandals itself, and oftentimes I hear from my co-workers that the Democrats are very very corrupt without offering any evidence. .

I think you just are not paying attention.

US Federal officials corruption cases.

Corrupt people get in power and oven cross the aisle back and forth. Prosecute them all.

Official Image Office State Year Crime(s) Scandal/investigation/case Notes Party
Robert Archbald Robert W. Archbald cph.3a03594.jpg Judge United States 1913 Bribery [10] Republican
Daniel Brewster Danielbrewster.jpg Senate Maryland 1972 Federal official gratuity United States v. Brewster (1972) [11] Democrat
Joseph R. Burton Joseph Ralph Burton.jpg Senate Kansas 1904 Compensated representation in a proceeding in which the United States is interested (Rev. Stat. § 1782) (codified as amended at 18 U.S.C. § 203) Burton v. United States (1905, 1906) [12] Republican
Frank Ballance Frank Ballance.jpg House of Representatives North Carolina 2004 Mail fraud [13] Democrat
Mario Biaggi Mario Biaggi.jpg House of Representatives New York 1987 Federal official gratuity and Travel Act [14]
1988 Federal official bribery and gratuity, mail fraud, Hobbs Act, and RICO Wedtech scandal [15] Democrat
Frank W. Boykin Frank W. Boykin (Alabama Congressman).jpg House of Representatives Alabama 1963 Federal official conflict-of-interest and conspiracy to defraud the United States [16] Democrat
Ernest K. Bramblett Ernest K. Bramblett (California Congressman).jpg House of Representatives California 1954 Payroll fraud to cover kickbacks [17] Republican
Frank J. Brasco Frank Brasco.jpg House of Representatives New York 1974 Conspiracy to defraud the United States [18] Democrat
Albert Bustamante Albert Bustamante.jpg House of Representatives Texas 1993 Federal official gratuity and RICO [19] Democrat
Alexander Caldwell Senator Alexander Caldwell.jpg Senator Kansas 1873 Bribery [20] Republican
Thomas Carney TCarney.jpg Senator Kansas 1873 Bribery [20] Republican
Frank M. Clark Frank M. Clark.jpg House of Representatives Pennsylvania 1979 Mail fraud [21] Democrat
Robert Frederick Collins United States District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana Louisiana 1991 Federal official bribery and conspiracy to defraud the United States [22] N/A
Duke Cunningham Duke Cunningham.jpg House of Representatives California 2006 Mail fraud and federal official bribery Cunningham scandal [23] Republican
Charles Diggs Charles C. Diggs.jpg House of Representatives Michigan 1980 Mail fraud [24] Democrat
David Durenberger DavidDurenberger.jpg Senator Minnesota 1995 Misuse of Public Funds [25][26] Republican
John Dowdy John Dowdy.jpg House of Representatives Texas 1971 Federal official conflict-of-interest and Travel Act [27] Democrat
Joshua Eilberg Joshua Eilberg.jpg House of Representatives Pennsylvania 1979 Federal official conflict-of-interest [28] Democrat
Albert B. Fall Albert B. Fall.jpg Secretary of the Interior New Mexico 1929 Revolving door (18 U.S.C. § 207) Teapot Dome scandal [29] Republican
Robert García Rep. García House of Representatives New York 1989 Hobbs Act Wedtech scandal [30] Democrat
Richard T. Hanna Richard T Hanna.png House of Representatives California 1978 Conspiracy to defraud the United States Koreagate [31] Democrat
James F. Hastings James F. Hastings.jpg House of Representatives New York 1976 Mail fraud [32] Republican
Andrew J. Hinshaw Andrew J. Hinshaw.jpg House of Representatives California 1976 Bribery [33] Republican
John H. Hoeppel John H. Hoeppel (California Congressman).jpg House of Representatives California 1935 Sale of appointive office (18 U.S.C. § 150) (currently codified at 18 U.S.C. § 211) [34] Democrat
William J. Jefferson William Jefferson, official photo.jpg House of Representatives Louisiana 2009 Federal official bribery, wire fraud, Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, and RICO William J. Jefferson corruption case [35] Democrat
John Jenrette John Jenrette.png House of Representatives South Carolina 1980 Federal official bribery Abscam [36] Democrat
Thomas Francis Johnson Thomas F. Johnson (Maryland Congressman).jpg House of Representatives Maryland 1963 Federal official conflict-of-interest and conspiracy to defraud the United States United States v. Johnson (1966) [37] Democrat

and on and on.
 

NeverTrump

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I think you just are not paying attention.

US Federal officials corruption cases.

Corrupt people get in power and oven cross the aisle back and forth. Prosecute them all.

Official Image Office State Year Crime(s) Scandal/investigation/case Notes Party
Robert Archbald Robert W. Archbald cph.3a03594.jpg Judge United States 1913 Bribery [10] Republican
Daniel Brewster Danielbrewster.jpg Senate Maryland 1972 Federal official gratuity United States v. Brewster (1972) [11] Democrat
Joseph R. Burton Joseph Ralph Burton.jpg Senate Kansas 1904 Compensated representation in a proceeding in which the United States is interested (Rev. Stat. § 1782) (codified as amended at 18 U.S.C. § 203) Burton v. United States (1905, 1906) [12] Republican
Frank Ballance Frank Ballance.jpg House of Representatives North Carolina 2004 Mail fraud [13] Democrat
Mario Biaggi Mario Biaggi.jpg House of Representatives New York 1987 Federal official gratuity and Travel Act [14]
1988 Federal official bribery and gratuity, mail fraud, Hobbs Act, and RICO Wedtech scandal [15] Democrat
Frank W. Boykin Frank W. Boykin (Alabama Congressman).jpg House of Representatives Alabama 1963 Federal official conflict-of-interest and conspiracy to defraud the United States [16] Democrat
Ernest K. Bramblett Ernest K. Bramblett (California Congressman).jpg House of Representatives California 1954 Payroll fraud to cover kickbacks [17] Republican
Frank J. Brasco Frank Brasco.jpg House of Representatives New York 1974 Conspiracy to defraud the United States [18] Democrat
Albert Bustamante Albert Bustamante.jpg House of Representatives Texas 1993 Federal official gratuity and RICO [19] Democrat
Alexander Caldwell Senator Alexander Caldwell.jpg Senator Kansas 1873 Bribery [20] Republican
Thomas Carney TCarney.jpg Senator Kansas 1873 Bribery [20] Republican
Frank M. Clark Frank M. Clark.jpg House of Representatives Pennsylvania 1979 Mail fraud [21] Democrat
Robert Frederick Collins United States District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana Louisiana 1991 Federal official bribery and conspiracy to defraud the United States [22] N/A
Duke Cunningham Duke Cunningham.jpg House of Representatives California 2006 Mail fraud and federal official bribery Cunningham scandal [23] Republican
Charles Diggs Charles C. Diggs.jpg House of Representatives Michigan 1980 Mail fraud [24] Democrat
David Durenberger DavidDurenberger.jpg Senator Minnesota 1995 Misuse of Public Funds [25][26] Republican
John Dowdy John Dowdy.jpg House of Representatives Texas 1971 Federal official conflict-of-interest and Travel Act [27] Democrat
Joshua Eilberg Joshua Eilberg.jpg House of Representatives Pennsylvania 1979 Federal official conflict-of-interest [28] Democrat
Albert B. Fall Albert B. Fall.jpg Secretary of the Interior New Mexico 1929 Revolving door (18 U.S.C. § 207) Teapot Dome scandal [29] Republican
Robert García Rep. García House of Representatives New York 1989 Hobbs Act Wedtech scandal [30] Democrat
Richard T. Hanna Richard T Hanna.png House of Representatives California 1978 Conspiracy to defraud the United States Koreagate [31] Democrat
James F. Hastings James F. Hastings.jpg House of Representatives New York 1976 Mail fraud [32] Republican
Andrew J. Hinshaw Andrew J. Hinshaw.jpg House of Representatives California 1976 Bribery [33] Republican
John H. Hoeppel John H. Hoeppel (California Congressman).jpg House of Representatives California 1935 Sale of appointive office (18 U.S.C. § 150) (currently codified at 18 U.S.C. § 211) [34] Democrat
William J. Jefferson William Jefferson, official photo.jpg House of Representatives Louisiana 2009 Federal official bribery, wire fraud, Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, and RICO William J. Jefferson corruption case [35] Democrat
John Jenrette John Jenrette.png House of Representatives South Carolina 1980 Federal official bribery Abscam [36] Democrat
Thomas Francis Johnson Thomas F. Johnson (Maryland Congressman).jpg House of Representatives Maryland 1963 Federal official conflict-of-interest and conspiracy to defraud the United States United States v. Johnson (1966) [37] Democrat

and on and on.

I don't know who any of these people are. Nice tiny straws though.
 

Tanngrisnir

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Your post is chock full of spin and nonsense. If I wanted to waste a bunch of time, I could go through and slap each point upside the head. But I won't. I'll just deal with this prime example above.

You lie.

Hatch did not say "that he doesn't care that Trump may have broken the law when such is obvious". Not even close. Here is what he said:

Hatch dismisses allegations of Trump crimes over hush money.
Asked if he had any concerns, Hatch said: “The Democrats will do anything to hurt this president.” Told it was alleged by SDNY, Hatch told me: “Okay but I don’t care; all I can say is he’s doing a good job as President”
— Manu Raju (@mkraju) December 10, 2018

Hatch added this when asked if he was concerned about allegations.
“No because I don’t think he was involved in crimes but even then, you know, you can make anything a crime under the current laws; if you want to you can blow it way out of proportion you can do a lot of things.”
— Manu Raju (@mkraju) December 10, 2018

Hatch also told me: “President Trump before he became president that’s another world. Since he’s become president this economy has charged ahead. … And I think we ought to judge him on that basis other than trying to drum up things from the past that may or may not be true.”
— Manu Raju (@mkraju) December 10, 2018

Given your penchant for lying, I suggest you keep your mouth shut when the watercooler conversation comes round to politics.

LOL! What fun to play imagination games!

Yes, Hatch is saying he doesn't care if Trump may have broken the law no matter how much that upsets some people.
 

NeverTrump

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So your evidence that I lied is evidence of Hatch defending Trump????OKrrrrr... I think I pretty much summed up what Hatch believes. Hatch did say he didn't care. It's right there in your quote.
 

akyron

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I don't know who any of these people are. Nice tiny straws though.

Oh. They are federal officials involved in corruption cases.

I would not expect for you to know dozens of federal officials personally. This gives you the ability to look up and get more information for yourself rather than the random he said she said at work. There are no straws...just actual cases.
 

akyron

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So your evidence that I lied is evidence of Hatch defending Trump????OKrrrrr... I think I pretty much summed up what Hatch believes. Hatch did say he didn't care. It's right there in your quote.


I dont think you lied. You are just conflating an anecdote to a larger picture.

Could happen to anyone.
 

NeverTrump

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Oh. They are federal officials involved in corruption cases.

I would not expect for you to know dozens of federal officials personally. This gives you the ability to look up and get more information for yourself rather than the random he said she said at work. There are no straws...just actual cases.

You listed a dozen democrats from the last 100 years. Trump has committed more corruption than all of them combined.
 

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When this subject (dishonesty-illegality) comes-up in my discussions with Trump supporters that are close to me, the response very often is: "But the economy!".

Basically, the one's I know don't seem to really care, as long as they get theirs. It's pretty depressing, and a quality I never really saw before with most of the one's I know. Obviously, that quality was there but the were pretty good at not displaying it overtly. Now, they do.

It also tells me Trump is toast if the economy goes south, at least with these out-for-themselves fair-weather supporters. I guess it makes sense, because the Trump supporters I'm closest with are cross-over Dems.
 

Mycroft

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So your evidence that I lied is evidence of Hatch defending Trump????OKrrrrr... I think I pretty much summed up what Hatch believes. Hatch did say he didn't care. It's right there in your quote.

You took a few words out of context and you applied a meaning to his statement that he didn't convey.

Yeah...that is an outright lie.
 

CanadaJohn

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I work for a very conservative organization that has seen it's fair share of scandals itself, and oftentimes I hear from my co-workers that the Democrats are very very corrupt without offering any evidence. We currently have a President who is under investigation by the SDNY and the FBI for corruption issues. Donald Trump and his supporters meet both definitions of corruption provided by google:



As related to Trump the concept of definition #1 can be easily proven by *new* headlines just from the past week and is interesting that Google's example is that of the journalists exposing said corruption when we often hear conservatives go after them for dubious reasons for for simple mistakes. Then you have Orin Hatch who had said that he doesn't care that Trump may have broken the law when such is obvious.

2. is quite interesting in that a changing of the meaning of words is also a definition of corruption as Trump and his followers often change the definition of words or alter their meaning. Just this weekend Trump supporters were going crazy because liberals were saying Trump cannot spell smoking. He miss-typed smocking. Then most of the Trump supporters tried to say that Trump purposefully wrote the word in order to troll liberals and that it's a secret message only they understand but cannot agree on. Not to mention their concept of fake news.

This leads me to believe that few conservative everyday people actually understand the concept if they think Democrats are more corrupt than Trump. One can even argue that not caring Trump may have broken laws is just as corrupt as having broken the law yourself.

Two very simple responses:

1. Bill and Hillary Clinton, the poster children for corruption, are leading lights and stalwarts of the Democrat Party.

2. The Democrat Party's and leftist's in general bastardization of the term "liberal" as it relates to politics.

Enough said!
 

NeverTrump

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You took a few words out of context and you applied a meaning to his statement that he didn't convey.

Yeah...that is an outright lie.

He said he didn't care about the laws that the SDNY is looking into. That is not out of context in anyway shape or form.
 

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I work for a very conservative organization that has seen it's fair share of scandals itself, and oftentimes I hear from my co-workers that the Democrats are very very corrupt without offering any evidence. We currently have a President who is under investigation by the SDNY and the FBI for corruption issues. Donald Trump and his supporters meet both definitions of corruption provided by google:



As related to Trump the concept of definition #1 can be easily proven by *new* headlines just from the past week and is interesting that Google's example is that of the journalists exposing said corruption when we often hear conservatives go after them for dubious reasons for for simple mistakes. Then you have Orin Hatch who had said that he doesn't care that Trump may have broken the law when such is obvious.

2. is quite interesting in that a changing of the meaning of words is also a definition of corruption as Trump and his followers often change the definition of words or alter their meaning. Just this weekend Trump supporters were going crazy because liberals were saying Trump cannot spell smoking. He miss-typed smocking. Then most of the Trump supporters tried to say that Trump purposefully wrote the word in order to troll liberals and that it's a secret message only they understand but cannot agree on. Not to mention their concept of fake news.

This leads me to believe that few conservative everyday people actually understand the concept if they think Democrats are more corrupt than Trump. One can even argue that not caring Trump may have broken laws is just as corrupt as having broken the law yourself.

Why would you work for a company who has the values you despise?
 

Moderate Right

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Two very simple responses:

1. Bill and Hillary Clinton, the poster children for corruption, are leading lights and stalwarts of the Democrat Party.

2. The Democrat Party's and leftist's in general bastardization of the term "liberal" as it relates to politics.

Enough said!

Let's not forget that Bernie Sander's wife is in hot water.
 

Moderate Right

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He said he didn't care about the laws that the SDNY is looking into. That is not out of context in anyway shape or form.

What does NY stand for, liberal bastion? That should be LB. It's not a surprise that given the full extent of TDS and the resistance, that NY would throw everything they can at Trump.
 

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When this subject (dishonesty-illegality) comes-up in my discussions with Trump supporters that are close to me, the response very often is: "But the economy!".

Basically, the one's I know don't seem to really care, as long as they get theirs. It's pretty depressing, and a quality I never really saw before with most of the one's I know. Obviously, that quality was there but the were pretty good at not displaying it overtly. Now, they do.

It also tells me Trump is toast if the economy goes south, at least with these out-for-themselves fair-weather supporters. I guess it makes sense, because the Trump supporters I'm closest with are cross-over Dems.

Good morning, hope you're well.

Seriously, after your country's shameful process involving Bill Clinton in the 90's it's pretty rich to complain that conservatives respond "but the economy" when discussing anything related to Trump malfeasance. Democrats and leftists in America made it "noble" to be a scoundrel so long as the economy was booming.

Republicans, to the contrary, when similarly faced with a scoundrel in the oval office, worked in unison with the left to impeach President Nixon who saw the writing on the wall and resigned to avoid being impeached. Had Democrats worked in unison with Republicans to impeach and/or force President Clinton from office, you may have a leg to stand on - as it is, you don't.
 

NeverTrump

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What does NY stand for, liberal bastion? That should be LB. It's not a surprise that given the full extent of TDS and the resistance, that NY would throw everything they can at Trump.

The Southern District of New York.
 

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He said he didn't care about the laws that the SDNY is looking into. That is not out of context in anyway shape or form.


Hatch didn't care about the allegations the SDNY brought forward because he doesn't believe Trump broke the law.

"I don't care, all I can say is he's doing a good job as president," Hatch said in an interview with CNN, before adding that he's not bothered by the filing because he doesn't think Trump was involved in crimes.


Which is quite different to saying: "Then you have Orin Hatch who had said that he doesn't care that Trump may have broken the law when such is obvious."
 
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