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Do Christians accept that the earth is older than the sun like the Bible says?

I am willing to be lenient with a story that existed as an oral record, for likely several thousand years,
and was finally written down, perhaps 3300 years ago, and has been, rewritten and translated many times.
Even if we consider that the omnipotent deity, creator of all things, communicated with a person,
from the neolithic era, what portion of such communication, would the person understand?
I had an English teacher in college, who was in New Guinea in WWII. He said one of the guys built a
freezer, so they could make ice. The local tribes, thought ice was a miracle.
Soon word spread, an a few weeks later a man from a very remote tribe, traveled for 2 days to see the miracle.
He was so impressed, that he wanted some of this ice, to take back and show his tribe,
but could not understand why he could not.
Knowledge, is a matter of perspective!

My wife's first language is Spanish and we often listen to music with Spanish lyrics.

I'm pretty sure that in Spanish, the lyrics rhyme and fit the tempo.

Translating the meaning of the lyrics to an English meaning, the rhythm and rhyme are missing as relayed by my Mrs. Code.

The Biblical translations seem to be lyrical and seem to be well constructed bits of literature.

The exactness of the translations from one oral tradition to the next and eventually to the modern written language translations is very likely not aimed at perfect accuracy of mathematical science.

It's like teaching history based only on Johnny Horton's music.
 
An all-powerful God would be capable of making anyone fully understand anything he wanted by definition. That fact we're still discussing this must mean that either there is no all-powerful God or God wants us to be confused and conflicted for some reason. :cool:

It could be that he had a higher opinion of us than we deserve.

From my experience, "free will" has screwed up more than one thing. Often, more than one thing at a time.
 
An all-powerful God would be capable of making anyone fully understand anything he wanted by definition. That fact we're still discussing this must mean that either there is no all-powerful God or God wants us to be confused and conflicted for some reason. :cool:
Even if the listener fully understood the meaning, how much would be lost in translation to the next person, and so on, until it was written.
 
It could be that he had a higher opinion of us than we deserve.
You're failing to understand all-powerful. It would be literally impossible for such a god to fail in anything he wanted to do so if one did exist, the entire universe would have to be exactly how he wanted it to be.

Even if the listener fully understood the meaning, how much would be lost in translation to the next person, and so on, until it was written.
Again, all-powerful. If such a god wanted the message to be understood, through however many transfers and over however much time, it simply would be.
 
What is that story?
(41:9) "Tell them, (O Prophet): “Do you indeed disbelieve in Him and assign compeers to Him Who created the earth in two days? He is the Lord of all beings of the Universe."
(41:10) "(After creating the earth) He set up firm mountains on it, blessed it, and provided it with sustenance in proportion to the needs of all who seek (sustenance). All this was done in four days."
(41:11) "Then He turned to the heaven while it was all smoke. He said to the heaven and the earth: “Come (into being), willingly or unwillingly.” They said: “Here we come (into being) in willing obeisance.”"
(41:12) "Then He made them seven heavens in two days and revealed to each heaven its law. And We adorned the lower heaven with lamps, and firmly secured it. All this is the firm plan of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing."
(79:27) "Is it harder to create you or the heaven? But Allah built it,"
(79:28) "and raised its vault high and proportioned it;"
79:29) "and covered its night with darkness and brought forth from it its day;"
(79:30) "and thereafter spread out the earth,"
(79:31) "and brought out of it its water and its pasture,"
(79:32) "and firmly fixed in it mountains;"
 
You're failing to understand all-powerful. It would be literally impossible for such a god to fail in anything he wanted to do so if one did exist, the entire universe would have to be exactly how he wanted it to be.

Again, all-powerful. If such a god wanted the message to be understood, through however many transfers and over however much time, it simply would be.
Once you hit the send on an email, your control over that email ceases.
I suspect something similar exists for omnipotent deities
 
Once you hit the send on an email, your control over that email ceases.
I suspect something similar exists for omnipotent deities
Then they wouldn't be omnipotent! An omnipotent deity can't loose control of anything. It is literally impossible by definition. If you are proposing a god who is not in 100% control of all things at all times, you're are not proposing an omnipotent god.
 
Then they wouldn't be omnipotent! An omnipotent deity can't loose control of anything. It is literally impossible by definition. If you are proposing a god who is not in 100% control of all things at all times, you're are not proposing an omnipotent god.
It gets back to free will, we ether have it or we do not! If we have it, then the deity may choose not to exercise complete control.
Lack of free will, means our future is set, and cannot be altered.
 
It gets back to free will, we ether have it or we do not! If we have it, then the deity may choose not to exercise complete control.
Lack of free will, means our future is set, and cannot be altered.
One of the issues with the idea of an omnipotent (specifically omniscient) god is that it contradicts the idea of free will. If doesn't matter whether the deity chooses to "exercise their control", it's their ability to know everything that will happen that means the future must be predetermined.

(though I also believe the future is set due to physics, we're just incapable of knowing what it's going to be so we have the perception of free will regardless).
 
One of the issues with the idea of an omnipotent (specifically omniscient) god is that it contradicts the idea of free will. If doesn't matter whether the deity chooses to "exercise their control", it's their ability to know everything that will happen that means the future must be predetermined.

(though I also believe the future is set due to physics, we're just incapable of knowing what it's going to be so we have the perception of free will regardless).
Perhaps, or the desired outcome is to see what we do with free will.
 
Perhaps, or the desired outcome is to see what we do with free will.
You're still not getting it. "Desired" would be an entirely meaningless concept to an omnipotent being. It would already know everything so can't desire anything. That is why the various gods defined as omnipotent yet having temporal desires, emotions and imperfections is totally irrational. We can't really being to comprehend how alien to our own way of thinking true omnipotence would be. If you're proposing an omnipotent god, you can't really say anything else about it's nature - you literally couldn't know.
 
You have some biblical literalists who believe everything in the Bible literally.

But the vast majority of Christians aren't these fundamentalists.
 
Genesis 1

9 "
And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so."

10 "God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.”
And God saw that it was good."

11 "Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so"

12 "The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good"

13 "And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day."

14 "
And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years"

15 "and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so."

16 "God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars."

17 "God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth"

18 "to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good."

19 "And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day."


Again: Do Christians accept that the earth is older than the sun like the Bible says?

And who is a Christian for you?
 
What do you mean by "Christians"?

Probably you think only of those terribly stupid and terribly fanatical evangelical fundamentalists, that have usurped the name "Christians"?

Let me tell you: There are millions and millions of Christians, who are not evangelical fundamentalists.

And by the way: There is also a world out there beyond the USA.


Will I never get an answer?
 
You have some biblical literalists who believe everything in the Bible literally.

But the vast majority of Christians aren't these fundamentalists.

Exactly!

Not all Christians are so terrible fanatics as these evangelikals.
 
Will I never get an answer?
This is about the bible supposedly being divinely inspired.
Anyone who calls him-/herself a Christian may feel free to have their say.

This is about a belief. As far as my beliefs are concerned, all Christians are wrong.

You mean the ones who don't follow Christian teachings? I'm aware of them. I don't know what is up with them. They're like people who got lost, found themselves some place and decided: this must be all there is. I'll die here.
 
You have some biblical literalists who believe everything in the Bible literally.

But the vast majority of Christians aren't these fundamentalists.

Most biblical literalists are atheists.
 


Question:

It seems that only fanatical evangelikal fundamentalists are "Christians" for you.

Don't you know any other Christians?
 
You're failing to understand all-powerful. It would be literally impossible for such a god to fail in anything he wanted to do so if one did exist, the entire universe would have to be exactly how he wanted it to be.

Again, all-powerful. If such a god wanted the message to be understood, through however many transfers and over however much time, it simply would be.

Your post supposes that you know the mind of the Almighty. What He "wanted to do" is His business.

It's possible that he wanted to allow people to exercise free will.
 
Your post supposes that you know the mind of the Almighty. What He "wanted to do" is His business.

It's possible that he wanted to allow people to exercise free will.
It reminds me of the question, Can God create a rock too heavy for him to move?"
 
(41:9) "Tell them, (O Prophet): “Do you indeed disbelieve in Him and assign compeers to Him Who created the earth in two days? He is the Lord of all beings of the Universe."
(41:10) "(After creating the earth) He set up firm mountains on it, blessed it, and provided it with sustenance in proportion to the needs of all who seek (sustenance). All this was done in four days."
(41:11) "Then He turned to the heaven while it was all smoke. He said to the heaven and the earth: “Come (into being), willingly or unwillingly.” They said: “Here we come (into being) in willing obeisance.”"
(41:12) "Then He made them seven heavens in two days and revealed to each heaven its law. And We adorned the lower heaven with lamps, and firmly secured it. All this is the firm plan of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing."
(79:27) "Is it harder to create you or the heaven? But Allah built it,"
(79:28) "and raised its vault high and proportioned it;"
79:29) "and covered its night with darkness and brought forth from it its day;"
(79:30) "and thereafter spread out the earth,"
(79:31) "and brought out of it its water and its pasture,"
(79:32) "and firmly fixed in it mountains;"

Seems like a nice bit of poetry. I don't see anything less lyrical or scientifically less or more explanatory in what you post here or in in the Book of Genesis.

Are you asserting that this explanation is closer to scientific accuracy than is Genesis?
 
Your post supposes that you know the mind of the Almighty. What He "wanted to do" is His business.
No, I'm considering the idea of a hypothetical deity defined as omnipotent and omniscient and applying basic common-sense (if slightly mind-bending) logic to that concept. Omnipotence and omniscience would lead to several definitive characteristics for such a deity. One of those is that it would be impossible for it to "want" anything since it would be able to unconditionally make existence that way and have it have always been that way. I appreciate it is a weird concept to get your head around but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

It's possible that he wanted to allow people to exercise free will.
Regardless of any kind of god, free will is incompatible with omnipotence. If anything is capable of being omnipotent, nothing would be capable of truly having free will. Omnipotence requires the future to be pre-determined and free will requires it not to be.
 
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