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Do away with public education as we know it

cnredd

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Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Here's a list of the top 100 schools in the country. Most of them are public schools. http://www.csh.k12.ny.us/highschool/data/TheTopHighSchools.htm

Uhhh...You might wanna look through this again...

It's ALL public schools....why?...Because it's only FOR public schools...

Public schools are ranked according to a ratio called the Challenge Index devised by Jay Mathews: the number of Advanced Placement or International Baccalaureate tests taken by all students at a school in 2002 divided by the number of graduating seniors. Schools that chose more than half of their students by grades or test scores were not considered because the index is designed to identify schools that challenge average students and does not work well with schools that have few or no average students. The schools ranked below have the strongest AP or IB programs in the country. Each of them is in the top four percent of all American high schools measured this way. If you know of a public school that belongs on the list, with at least as many AP or IB tests as graduates in 2002, contact Jay Mathews at...

I don't know how non-public schools would rate, but showing a list with ONLY public schools is a bit disingenous, huh?:roll:
 
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cnredd said:
Uhhh...You might wanna look through this again...

It's ALL public schools....why?...Because it's only FOR public schools...

Public schools are ranked according to a ratio called the Challenge Index devised by Jay Mathews: the number of Advanced Placement or International Baccalaureate tests taken by all students at a school in 2002 divided by the number of graduating seniors. Schools that chose more than half of their students by grades or test scores were not considered because the index is designed to identify schools that challenge average students and does not work well with schools that have few average students. The schools ranked below have the strongest AP or IB programs in the country. Each of them is in the top four percent of all American high schools measured this way. If you know of a public school that belongs on the list, with at least as many AP or IB tests as graduates or noin 2002, contact Jay Mathews at...

I don't know how non-public schools would rate, but showing a list with ONLY public schools is a bit disingenous, huh?:roll:

No, especially when you read the part that says "Each of them is in the top four percent of all American high schools measured this way" and if you had taken the time to look up the names on the list you'd know that several of them are acctually private schools. In fact, the majority of private schools are messured in this way. The only one's that aren't are the private schools who's admission is based on testing ie how "gifted" said applicant is. It makes sense to exclude them because it stacks the ranking.
 
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cnredd

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Napoleon's Nightingale said:
No, especially when you read the part that says "Each of them is in the top four percent of all American high schools measured this way" and if you had taken the time to look up the names on the list you'd know that several of them are acctually private schools. In fact, the majority of private schools are messured in this way. The only one's that aren't are the private schools who's admission is based on testing ie how "gifted" said applicant is. It makes sense to exclude them because it stacks the ranking.
Then why would he be asking for public schools only?
 
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cnredd said:
Then why would he be asking for public schools only?


Because not all public schools offer AP and IB testing. All private schools generally offer AP and IB testing but public schools don't always offer it. He had all the data from the private schools that would provide information.
 
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cnredd

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Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Because not all public schools offer AP and IB testing. All private schools generally offer AP and IB testing but public schools don't always offer it. He had all the data from the private schools that would provide information.
So it's only the top schools within certain parameters...

I guess that's why New York has 94 schools on that list, yet Pennsylvania only has 9...different standards...:shrug:
 
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cnredd said:
So it's only the top schools within certain parameters...

I guess that's why New York has 94 schools on that list, yet Pennsylvania only has 9...different standards...:shrug:


It's not a different standard. NY has more schools that offer AP and IB tests and tend to do better with them than any other state.
 
H

HTColeman

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I think the price would hurt the poor, which is the only thing I see wrong with the plan. I would love to see that plan implemented though, hurting the poor or not, simply for the intelligence boost I'd expect to see in the next generation.

Intelligence boost in the top (referring to social class) 25% of the next generation. What happens to those who can't afford these schools or who can't get in because there is no more room. They won't die off (which would be a horrible goal btw) so we simply have an educated elite and a large, poor, ignorant population. Much like when the country first started. This is digression, the goal is to get more people educated, and then get all people educated. Note that a goal is an ideal, not something that actually could be achieved.
 

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It is in shambles ,Black people will axe you for this or that ,the Texan will exclaim y'all come back, warsh the clothes ,and hes fixin to go to the store.
and then says yant to go back home.

the only people I truly understand are californians , the people in the northeast and north west states.
the rest of the country isn't speaking english
poor people get the shaft and the rich get the best schools.
that leaves 1 in 3 with substandard schooling.
No child let behind lol that doesnt seem to be working
 
H

HTColeman

Canuck said:
It is in shambles ,Black people will axe you for this or that ,the Texan will exclaim y'all come back, warsh the clothes ,and hes fixin to go to the store.
and then says yant to go back home.

the only people I truly understand are californians , the people in the northeast and north west states.
the rest of the country isn't speaking english
poor people get the shaft and the rich get the best schools.
that leaves 1 in 3 with substandard schooling.
No child let behind lol that doesnt seem to be working

Well that was a load of stereotypes and misconceptions, I'm black, I've never said "ask". I have nothing against southern accents or sayings, they do not denote educational level, rather they are cultural aspects of that person. Ya'll come back is a common expression, we, as I am also a Texan, don't say that because we don't know any better, it is part of our culture.
 

dragonslayer

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Martyr_Machine said:
Absolutely wrong. The qualification requirement for teachers in public schools are rediculously low.

Ignoring the fact that private schools are of infinitely higher quality, the issue at hand is theft. Public schools can only survive as long as a gun is held to my head.


Of course doing away with public education, would be very acceptable to neo conservatives. Then they could lie to America more than they do. America would be on the road back slavery. Do away with Public Education, and have stupid police, and military to do the bidding of their NeoConservative Fascist Masters.

Change in Education is a huge to Advantage to the neo conservatives and the very rich. Means the end of Democracy and endless foreign wars . Our constitution would die as the NeoConservative's want. the United States Of America would be like it was under the Articles of Confederation. Chaos and religious strife. Each state could have it's Neo Conservative King. Oh Boy.

Education means freedom, and to do away with education means servitude and slavery.

We need to start respending more tax money taken from Bush's Rich Neo conservative friends on public education. We don't want to borrow from the Central Bank of China either to pay for education, as Bush does to fund the war in Iraq. The Rich should pay taxes again.
 

128shot

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dragonslayer said:
Of course doing away with public education, would be very acceptable to neo conservatives. Then they could lie to America more than they do. America would be on the road back slavery. Do away with Public Education, and have stupid police, and military to do the bidding of their NeoConservative Fascist Masters.

Change in Education is a huge to Advantage to the neo conservatives and the very rich. Means the end of Democracy and endless foreign wars . Our constitution would die as the NeoConservative's want. the United States Of America would be like it was under the Articles of Confederation. Chaos and religious strife. Each state could have it's Neo Conservative King. Oh Boy.

Education means freedom, and to do away with education means servitude and slavery.

We need to start respending more tax money taken from Bush's Rich Neo conservative friends on public education. We don't want to borrow from the Central Bank of China either to pay for education, as Bush does to fund the war in Iraq. The Rich should pay taxes again.



Is it just me or is it a popular theme to just rag on the rich? I tend to see alot from most people...



Anywho.



I like the plan that I spoke of a few pages ago.
 

Canuck

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HTColeman said:
Well that was a load of stereotypes and misconceptions, I'm black, I've never said "ask". I have nothing against southern accents or sayings, they do not denote educational level, rather they are cultural aspects of that person. Ya'll come back is a common expression, we, as I am also a Texan, don't say that because we don't know any better, it is part of our culture.

Isn't the culture based on English
or is it a tex /mex mixture
I don't know much about it ,but when I hear them speak it ,it Doesn't sound English to me
I do know some Texans that speak perfect English
better than I
my skills at English being low ,that doesn't say much

Is the culture in Texas based on a culture of English thats my question I guess.
 
H

HTColeman

Canuck said:
Isn't the culture based on English
or is it a tex /mex mixture
I don't know much about it ,but when I hear them speak it ,it Doesn't sound English to me
I do know some Texans that speak perfect English
better than I
my skills at English being low ,that doesn't say much

Is the culture in Texas based on a culture of English thats my question I guess.

Obviously English is a part of culture, but I would say it is more based on history and geography, there are so many influences in Texas, even the U.S., that it has created a unique culture, Six Flags have flown over texas claiming ownership during its history (5 if you don't count the TX flag when it was independant). Also, English is very different in different areas, England speaks English, but it is very different than America. Australia speaks English but it is also very different, I probably wouldn't be able to understand much of what they say. So no culture is based completely on language, and I would venture to say that the language is in fact shaped by culture.
 
H

hipsterdufus

Martyr_Machine said:
Public schools answer to no one but the state, and therfor the concerns of the parent of irrelevent. Private schools have everything to lose by not adapting to the needs of the student and parent, and therfor would do a far better job of educating citizens. Not to mention that competition between schools would drive prices down.

What it all comes down to is: You have absolutely no right to force me to pay for your childs education.

I agree with you to a point. I teach at a very exclusive independent school, but I am very much in favor of keeping public schools as strong as possible.

We are a nation of immigrants, and somewhere along the road, someone in your family needed a good public school education to lift them up and to provide opportunity for their descendants.

Privatizing public schools eliminates the prospect for a middle class.

Do you think a few thousand dollars is going to get you into my school? Not on your life! Tuition is around 14K a year. That 2K is going to get you into a charter or a religious school. I've been in both, and I'll take a good public school over either of them any day.

Another point, you say " You have absolutely no right to force me to pay for your childs education." Well, you could use that same flawed logic about the war, bridges to nowhere in Alaska and a million other items.
 

Kelzie

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HTColeman said:
Obviously English is a part of culture, but I would say it is more based on history and geography, there are so many influences in Texas, even the U.S., that it has created a unique culture, Six Flags have flown over texas claiming ownership during its history (5 if you don't count the TX flag when it was independant). Also, English is very different in different areas, England speaks English, but it is very different than America. Australia speaks English but it is also very different, I probably wouldn't be able to understand much of what they say. So no culture is based completely on language, and I would venture to say that the language is in fact shaped by culture.

:rofl I thought you meant the Six Flags Amusement Park for a minute. I was a little confused. No worries, I'm back on track now.
 
H

HTColeman

Kelzie said:
:rofl I thought you meant the Six Flags Amusement Park for a minute. I was a little confused. No worries, I'm back on track now.

Yea, that's how I learned my history of TX, the amusement park, six flags over texas. lol, no, not really, its sad.
 

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hipsterdufus said:
I agree with you to a point. I teach at a very exclusive independent school, but I am very much in favor of keeping public schools as strong as possible.

We are a nation of immigrants, and somewhere along the road, someone in your family needed a good public school education to lift them up and to provide opportunity for their descendants.

Privatizing public schools eliminates the prospect for a middle class.

Do you think a few thousand dollars is going to get you into my school? Not on your life! Tuition is around 14K a year. That 2K is going to get you into a charter or a religious school. I've been in both, and I'll take a good public school over either of them any day.

Another point, you say " You have absolutely no right to force me to pay for your childs education." Well, you could use that same flawed logic about the war, bridges to nowhere in Alaska and a million other items.

Oh yes let's do away with public education. Of course the rich don't want to have educated voters so the Neo conservatives can sway and influence the uneducated. Neo Cons want uneducated soldiers and voters.. Lets not pay for public schools. We can have uneducated cops and soldiers. When a cops stops ya to give ya a ticket he won't understand what you write. Private schools give the training that parents want, when they go to certain school. If someone says red is green, and there is a private school to teach it then their children can go to that school.

In a public school, one get a more honest and straight forward education, because they have no one to cowtow to.
Take a look at Pat Robertson or George Bush, and certainly would not want my grandchildren to turn into wasted people like those two, and I am a good practicing chriistian. If I thought my grand children would turn into people like Robertson or Bush, I would rather not see them created.
 
H

hipsterdufus

dragonslayer said:
Oh yes let's do away with public education. Of course the rich don't want to have educated voters so the Neo conservatives can sway and influence the uneducated. Neo Cons want uneducated soldiers and voters.. Lets not pay for public schools. We can have uneducated cops and soldiers. When a cops stops ya to give ya a ticket he won't understand what you write. Private schools give the training that parents want, when they go to certain school. If someone says red is green, and there is a private school to teach it then their children can go to that school.

In a public school, one get a more honest and straight forward education, because they have no one to cowtow to.
Take a look at Pat Robertson or George Bush, and certainly would not want my grandchildren to turn into wasted people like those two, and I am a good practicing chriistian. If I thought my grand children would turn into people like Robertson or Bush, I would rather not see them created.

You didn't read my post if you think I want to do away with Public Education. I said exactly the opposite.
 

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hipsterdufus said:
I agree with you to a point. I teach at a very exclusive independent school, but I am very much in favor of keeping public schools as strong as possible.

We are a nation of immigrants, and somewhere along the road, someone in your family needed a good public school education to lift them up and to provide opportunity for their descendants.

Privatizing public schools eliminates the prospect for a middle class.

Do you think a few thousand dollars is going to get you into my school? Not on your life! Tuition is around 14K a year. That 2K is going to get you into a charter or a religious school. I've been in both, and I'll take a good public school over either of them any day.

Another point, you say " You have absolutely no right to force me to pay for your childs education." Well, you could use that same flawed logic about the war, bridges to nowhere in Alaska and a million other items.

I apologize.
 

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You know why the private school costs are so high? Because a lot of the money is taken by the government in taxes. and if you don't think of it as taking or stealing, then look at what happens when we don't pay taxes. We get our houses and property confiscated, and eventually thrown in jail.

Also it is very hard to compete with a system of education that is controlled by people who don't care about money. Public education is run by the government, the government gets all its money from taxes, and they didn't really earn it, they have no reason to value it. So they can just throw it around without a care.
The government is the only thing that can create monopolies. If a private company beats all its competiters and then starts price gouging, guess whats gonna happen? Another person or private company will see the opportunity for profit, and will offer lower prices, for goods just as good or better then the other company. That is the nature of the free market. If people see that some company is charging unfairly, they will buy from the other company that charges less for the same goods. It is that simple.

If all these big private companies oppressed people, as much as y'all, who insist they do, say they do, then how did they possibly make so much money? Are you going to insist because most of the people in America are stupid and ignorant? Have you met all of them? I''m sure you haven't. I don't know about you, but I don't know what kind of world you live in, when you believe people by nature are dumb and ignorant.

Those companies made the money by selling good products and services at a good price, through the method of competition. Government intervention and funding destroys competition because government-funded businesses don't value money. Good services come from the people who do value money.

A governent-funded business doesn't need customers, a private company does. Public education has money, no matter how good of a job it does. Private education needs to be the best, to get money.

I know which one I would choose. out of the two.
 

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madcow863 said:
You know why the private school costs are so high? Because a lot of the money is taken by the government in taxes. and if you don't think of it as taking or stealing, then look at what happens when we don't pay taxes. We get our houses and property confiscated, and eventually thrown in jail.

Also it is very hard to compete with a system of education that is controlled by people who don't care about money. Public education is run by the government, the government gets all its money from taxes, and they didn't really earn it, they have no reason to value it. So they can just throw it around without a care.
The government is the only thing that can create monopolies. If a private company beats all its competiters and then starts price gouging, guess whats gonna happen? Another person or private company will see the opportunity for profit, and will offer lower prices, for goods just as good or better then the other company. That is the nature of the free market. If people see that some company is charging unfairly, they will buy from the other company that charges less for the same goods. It is that simple.

If all these big private companies oppressed people, as much as y'all, who insist they do, say they do, then how did they possibly make so much money? Are you going to insist because most of the people in America are stupid and ignorant? Have you met all of them? I''m sure you haven't. I don't know about you, but I don't know what kind of world you live in, when you believe people by nature are dumb and ignorant.

Those companies made the money by selling good products and services at a good price, through the method of competition. Government intervention and funding destroys competition because government-funded businesses don't value money. Good services come from the people who do value money.

A governent-funded business doesn't need customers, a private company does. Public education has money, no matter how good of a job it does. Private education needs to be the best, to get money.

I know which one I would choose. out of the two.

:rofl That's funny. So when the police arrest someone, that's what? Kidnapping?
 

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Do not private schools cherry-pick the students they want to enter? No wonder they do so well. They don't need to take the vast majority of average and sub-average students. They can pick the good ones, make themselves look good, and then claim victory.

It's not hard to see that if they had to go by the same universal education did, they probably wouldn't do as well. You cannot fit that many students into the private system either, and if you tried, you would be approaching the problems experienced by the public schools.
 
H

HTColeman

madcow863 said:
You know why the private school costs are so high? Because a lot of the money is taken by the government in taxes. and if you don't think of it as taking or stealing, then look at what happens when we don't pay taxes. We get our houses and property confiscated, and eventually thrown in jail.

Also it is very hard to compete with a system of education that is controlled by people who don't care about money. Public education is run by the government, the government gets all its money from taxes, and they didn't really earn it, they have no reason to value it. So they can just throw it around without a care.
The government is the only thing that can create monopolies. If a private company beats all its competiters and then starts price gouging, guess whats gonna happen? Another person or private company will see the opportunity for profit, and will offer lower prices, for goods just as good or better then the other company. That is the nature of the free market. If people see that some company is charging unfairly, they will buy from the other company that charges less for the same goods. It is that simple.

If all these big private companies oppressed people, as much as y'all, who insist they do, say they do, then how did they possibly make so much money? Are you going to insist because most of the people in America are stupid and ignorant? Have you met all of them? I''m sure you haven't. I don't know about you, but I don't know what kind of world you live in, when you believe people by nature are dumb and ignorant.

Those companies made the money by selling good products and services at a good price, through the method of competition. Government intervention and funding destroys competition because government-funded businesses don't value money. Good services come from the people who do value money.

A governent-funded business doesn't need customers, a private company does. Public education has money, no matter how good of a job it does. Private education needs to be the best, to get money.

I know which one I would choose. out of the two.

You know what, youre right, we shouldn't have to pay taxes! We can build our own roads, and army, and airports, and public transportation, and fund representatives, and presidents, and education. Who needs taxes!
 

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Technocratic_Utilitarian said:
Do not private schools cherry-pick the students they want to enter? No wonder they do so well. They don't need to take the vast majority of average and sub-average students. They can pick the good ones, make themselves look good, and then claim victory.

It's not hard to see that if they had to go by the same universal education did, they probably wouldn't do as well. You cannot fit that many students into the private system either, and if you tried, you would be approaching the problems experienced by the public schools.

I have this to say about our public school system. It rocks.

What you say? But we're not at the top of the world in education. It's the culture stupid. It's the kids who have been raised on PS2 and whose parents look at school like a cheap babysitter. It's school. It's not a miracle worker. You get out what you put in. That includes the parents as well as the students. I attended most of my schooling in the public schools of Colorado. 49th state in school funding. By all accounts, I should be barely literate. But no. I had a very supportive mother who pushed me to succeed. I tried in school. I did my homework. My schools, from elementary to high school, all had some sort of gifted/high achiever program. If you tried you got in. And it paid off. I'm not going to number drop, but I will say my SATs were comparable to any private school. And that's from a public schooling education.

Stop blaming the damn school. Get off your ass and help your kid with his algebra homework.
 
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