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Do away with public education as we know it

My_Nation

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The concept is simple yet difficult for liberals to get their arms around. Turn the public education system into private schools.

Here is the concept:
1) schools would get $7,600 per year per student, but each school would be limited to a certain number of students (in the 600 range) but can not refuse to take a student under an situtation provided they have room.

2) Do away with the K-12 grading system in total.

3) Test all students at the beginning of each year and at the end of each year to bench mark the progress of the students. Those that learn 1 years of information get a 1. Those that learn 85% of years information get a .85 those that learn 25% more than a years get 1.25%.

4) The average scores for each age is provided to the parents or perspective parents of the school.

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by doing this the schools would become competitive and increase the level of education.

The cost of operation would decrease because it would eliminate the excessive administration.

This would increase teachers pay because of the school will need to attract better teachers to stay competitive.

Way more pros than cons.

Understand that this is a brief outline and not a detailed plan>
 

Martyr_Machine

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Of course public education should be abolished. The governemnt monopoly on education has failed miserably.

Here is the concept:
1) schools would get $7,600 per year per student, but each school would be limited to a certain number of students (in the 600 range) but can not refuse to take a student under an situtation provided they have room.

2) Do away with the K-12 grading system in total.

3) Test all students at the beginning of each year and at the end of each year to bench mark the progress of the students. Those that learn 1 years of information get a 1. Those that learn 85% of years information get a .85 those that learn 25% more than a years get 1.25%.

4) The average scores for each age is provided to the parents or perspective parents of the school.
This isnt privatization. It still involves government control.
 

Mortibis

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I wouldn't say the government has failed miserabley. It might be a good idea however to take some of the tasks of education away from states and put them in the hands of the national government.
 

Martyr_Machine

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Mortibis said:
I wouldn't say the government has failed miserabley. It might be a good idea however to take some of the tasks of education away from states and put them in the hands of the national government.
That would screw it up even more. All education should be privitized.
 

Mortibis

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Martyr_Machine said:
That would screw it up even more. All education should be privitized.
And that would be even more dangerous. It would create an ever larger disparity between the rich and poor in educational standards. In fact there would be little standardization throughout the country. The United States would lose their educational guarentees, and create an even more ignorant culture. Public schools have to answer to more people and therefore are more scrutinized; in the end, this makes them better than private schools for the most part.
 

Kelzie

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:rofl I'm sorry, 600 students max per school? And where would we find the money to open thousands of new schools, cause that's what we'll need.
 

SHodges

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I think the price would hurt the poor, which is the only thing I see wrong with the plan. I would love to see that plan implemented though, hurting the poor or not, simply for the intelligence boost I'd expect to see in the next generation.
 

128shot

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Mortibis said:
And that would be even more dangerous. It would create an ever larger disparity between the rich and poor in educational standards. In fact there would be little standardization throughout the country. The United States would lose their educational guarentees, and create an even more ignorant culture. Public schools have to answer to more people and therefore are more scrutinized; in the end, this makes them better than private schools for the most part.

my ass.


Where do you live? I hate our public education. I just hate it.

My cousin goes to private school, he's light years head of anyone I've met graduated already from public schooling..

and my cousin is only 16.
 

SHodges

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Being light years ahead of anyone in public schooling isn't that hard to pull off. A weekend spent with wikipedia and google will put you a decade ahead of most people, private or public schooled.
 

128shot

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depends if your brain is tuned or not I suppose.


My cousin is one of those who you have to teach or he learns by experience. No public school really catered to this key need at all.....
 

SHodges

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Public schools don't cater to anyone's needs, they simply talk, tell you to take notes, hand out busy work, and then test you. If you pass, great, if you fail, great, more students means more job security for the teacher than failed you. On the side of that is private schools, who in my experience are equally flawed. I've seen many people come from private schools close to the top of their class without really knowing anything. Education is testing, and retaining that knowledge, and the application of that knowledge, not any one of those three. I've yet to see a public or private educational institution that focuses on all three.
 

128shot

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SHodges said:
Public schools don't cater to anyone's needs, they simply talk, tell you to take notes, hand out busy work, and then test you. If you pass, great, if you fail, great, more students means more job security for the teacher than failed you. On the side of that is private schools, who in my experience are equally flawed. I've seen many people come from private schools close to the top of their class without really knowing anything. Education is testing, and retaining that knowledge, and the application of that knowledge, not any one of those three. I've yet to see a public or private educational institution that focuses on all three.

Well, some of it is natural.......


I don't know too many effective ways you can teach someone to retain knowledge if they don't want to, for example.


My cousin had particular needs when it came to learn. you learn best when a system is catered around you and your pace of learning. you retain more this way.
 

SHodges

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I understand that many, many people are, frankly, just stupid and not very receptive to education. There are many more who are not and are being cheated by the current educational systems being presented to them. I think the competition driven plan presented here is the best solution yet available to this problem. The only way to have a 'system' catered around each and every individual student is for each and every individual student to have their own private Ph.D hanging around them, spitting knowledge at them every once in a while, an impractical solution. The "make these the smartest students in the world or lose quite a bit of money" mentality would drive education forward.
 

128shot

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yeah, good old capitalist method.

you want more money? Work for it!

and you see, it works :D
 

Arch Enemy

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BAAAD Idea!

My School-District currently serves 6,400 students (after merger with Chapel Hill District, we'll have 17,000) ruling out the whole K-12 thing, we'd be left with 8 Schools (we have 2 High Schools, 2 Middle Schools, 4 Elementary Schools)

That'll leave us with 1600 Students without a school. That'd warrant the creation of 3 More SCHOOLS.

Good luck getting money, we can barely put grass on our foot-ball fields.
 

wonder cow

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My_Nation, you ignorant slut,

The concept is simple yet difficult for liberals to get their arms around. Turn the public education system into private schools.
Ah, yes. The absurd babblings of libertarians. Demanding the ridiculous, expecting the impossible, and making no difference at all in the world around us.

The beautiful thing about being libertarian is that you can be an extremist on both ends of the political spectrum, which makes for plenty of opportunities to rant and rave without any of the burden of producing practical public policy.

Public education is one of our better traits as a society. Let's keep it.

And of course, private schools will most of the time do better than public schools. But so what? This is not a good argument to do away with public schools.

And byw, privatizing public schools is a concept that almost all conservatives would also oppose.
 

128shot

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Screw conservatives.


Screw social democrats.


I'm all for Liberteria.
 

Martyr_Machine

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Mortibis said:
And that would be even more dangerous. It would create an ever larger disparity between the rich and poor in educational standards. In fact there would be little standardization throughout the country. The United States would lose their educational guarentees, and create an even more ignorant culture. Public schools have to answer to more people and therefore are more scrutinized; in the end, this makes them better than private schools for the most part.
Public schools answer to no one but the state, and therfor the concerns of the parent of irrelevent. Private schools have everything to lose by not adapting to the needs of the student and parent, and therfor would do a far better job of educating citizens. Not to mention that competition between schools would drive prices down.

What it all comes down to is: You have absolutely no right to force me to pay for your childs education.
 

Martyr_Machine

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And of course, private schools will most of the time do better than public schools. But so what? This is not a good argument to do away with public schools.
Yes, it is. Especially when a gun is being pointed to my head, forcing me to pay for said public schools.
 

wonder cow

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Yes, it is. Especially when a gun is being pointed to my head, forcing me to pay for said public schools.
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People who don't drive should not have to pay taxes that go to roads.

People who don't go to prison should not have to pay taxes to build prisons.

People who don't need the protection or services of the police or fire departments should get a refund on the taxes they paid for that.

Only people who actually dial 911 should have to pay for it.

Since I have never been to court, I should be refunded all the money I have ever paid in taxes that has gone to the court system.

I don't make use any public parks or national forests, etc. so I want all my money back on that stuff too...
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If you can afford to send your kids to a private school, great. But don't destroy the public school systems that benefit millions out of petty shortsighted greed.
 

Martyr_Machine

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People who don't drive should not have to pay taxes that go to roads.
Correct.

People who don't go to prison should not have to pay taxes to build prisons.
Correct. Prisons should be built by private industries.

People who don't need the protection or services of the police or fire departments should get a refund on the taxes they paid for that.
Fire departments should be privitized, so no, taxes should not pay for them.
Law enforcement is a legitimate purpose of government that defends the populace by removing violent criminals from society. You use the police whether you realize it or not.

Only people who actually dial 911 should have to pay for it.
See above.

Since I have never been to court, I should be refunded all the money I have ever paid in taxes that has gone to the court system.
See my police comment.
I don't make use any public parks or national forests, etc. so I want all my money back on that stuff too...
They shouldnt exist. All national parks should be auctioned off to conservationist organizations if they so desire them, if not, auction them off to the highest bidder.
 

Martyr_Machine

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If you can afford to send your kids to a private school, great. But don't destroy the public school systems that benefit millions out of petty shortsighted greed.
Desiring that the government not force me to pay for your childs education is not greed.
Believing that you are entitled to my money is.
 

Red_Dave

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128shot said:
yeah, good old capitalist method.

you want more money? Work for it!

and you see, it works :D
with respect I think sit on your arse while your underpaid employes [or slaves if your a multinational] make your money would be a much more effective description
 

128shot

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Not this arguement again.

I'll keep it short and simple.

they did what you didn't, and now you're mad. usually, this is the case.
 

Martyr_Machine

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Red_Dave said:
with respect I think sit on your arse while your underpaid employes [or slaves if your a multinational] make your money would be a much more effective description
Many third world citizens literally kill for a chance to work in american factories. Its hardly exploitation:roll:
 
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