DNC Didn't Invite AOC to Speak - Sanders Had to Invite Her With a Nomination Slot

[Surrealistik]

Hum....are Amy and Pete committed to the DEM Party or do they dance in and out of it as Bernie does.

Well they're certainly committed to making sure Biden won over Sanders, that's for sure. I personally wonder what they were promised in exchange for the favour.

 

[jnug]

AOC's appearance was fine; Kasich getting the time he did when most of the party didn't want him to speak at all, and the demonstrated disregard and contempt of party brass for progressives and rank and file party members alike who overwhelmingly wanted AOC at the convention is far more a disservice to getting Biden elected than trying to head her off. I would agree that it's strategic, but only so far as it relates to helping old guard Dems retain control of the party.

Your point is well taken. but where are you going with it. Bernie would NEVER have beaten Trump...no chance. At least we with brains can all laugh at the GOP's efforts to name Biden the property of the extreme Left. Bernie has self-avowed as a Socialist. Democratic Socialist or otherwise, the GOP would have buried Bernie as a candidate for President.

 

[The AntiDonald]

AOC's appearance was fine; Kasich getting the time he did when most of the party didn't want him to speak at all, and the demonstrated disregard and contempt of party brass for progressives and rank and file party members alike who overwhelmingly wanted AOC at the convention is far more a disservice to getting Biden elected than trying to head her off. I would agree that it's strategic, but only so far as it relates to helping old guard Dems retain control of the party.

Maybe so. But this is no time to be fighting about who regains control of the party. We've got 4 years to worry about that after we defeat the Liar in Chief.

 

[Oborosen]

Go to Biden's website. Last time I checked, there were 39 initiatives laid out in detail. There may be more by now. Go to Trumps website, there are zero.

So they're finally catching up to Trump in actually having a message. That's good to know at least.

 

[PoS]

Really, did Bernie have the delegate votes he needed in 2016? That would be NEWS TO ME. Though I must admit, DEM interest in putting the "first woman President" sheepskin up on their wall next to the "first black President" sheepskin was at an all time high and completely clouded their vision it was still their bag of marbles, their rules. Bernie's consistent, Standard Operating Procedure of dropping in to the DEM Party for runs at the nomination and dropping back out to maintain his Independent status in the Senate and in politics generally is what killed him then and now! He never had a chance.

2016 was rigged: Was the Democratic primary rigged? - Vox

"First, Donna Brazile, the former chair of the Democratic National Committee, published excerpts of a forthcoming book in which she says that after she took over the Democratic National Committee, she investigated “whether Hillary Clinton’s team had rigged the nomination process” through the DNC, and discovered evidence that they did. “I had found my proof and it broke my heart,” she wrote.

In the aftermath of Brazile’s bombshell, Sen. Elizabeth Warren was asked if she “agree[d] with the notion that it was rigged?” “Yes,” she replied."

I bet stuff will come out after the election that the 2020 dem primaries were also rigged. They did the exact same thing each and every time.

 

[The AntiDonald]

So they're finally catching up to Trump in actually having a message. That's good to know at least.

If you call "Build That Wall" a message.

 

[Surrealistik]

Your point is well taken. but where are you going with it. Bernie would NEVER have beaten Trump...no chance. At least we with brains can all laugh at the GOP's efforts to name Biden the property of the extreme Left. Bernie has self-avowed as a Socialist. Democratic Socialist or otherwise, the GOP would have buried Bernie as a candidate for President.

You do realize Sanders was polling on par with Biden among the general? ...and with the added benefit that his brains aren't leaking out from his ears.

Moreover, the touchstones of progressive policy are popular: https://www.debatepolitics.com/2020...-joe-biden-dnc-address-10.html#post1072481957

I mean uh-oh, I guess Trump can go after Sanders for pushing policies most of the country agrees with, including health care reform that even 55% of Republicans now back; that definitely sounds like a sure fire way to bury him.

 

[Oborosen]

If you call "Build That Wall" a message.

If that's all you've heard then your head has been shoved in some pretty dark places for a while now.

 

[Yakshi]

I don't know what the fuss is about. He'll be our next president. Sanders will continue as a senator, or he will be offered a spot in the administration.

These are all good things.

Sometimes there is little to no drama, except in overactive imaginations.

Does everything have to be as dramatic as in the movies? Because if so, we're overdue for about 198 car chases in a row.

 

[jnug]

2016 was rigged: Was the Democratic primary rigged? - Vox

"First, Donna Brazile, the former chair of the Democratic National Committee, published excerpts of a forthcoming book in which she says that after she took over the Democratic National Committee, she investigated “whether Hillary Clinton’s team had rigged the nomination process” through the DNC, and discovered evidence that they did. “I had found my proof and it broke my heart,” she wrote.

In the aftermath of Brazile’s bombshell, Sen. Elizabeth Warren was asked if she “agree[d] with the notion that it was rigged?” “Yes,” she replied."

I bet stuff will come out after the election that the 2020 dem primaries were also rigged. They did the exact same thing each and every time.

Their bag of marbles, their rules. Again you are avoiding the issue. Bernie's consistent SOP, dancing in and out of the DEM Party only registering as a DEM for Presidential runs and then dancing back out again and registering as an Independent for his Senate runs and in politics generally was a poison pill that was always going to prevent him grabbing the brass ring. This year Bernie was double doomed because anybody with a brain would tell you that Bernie would never have beaten Trump in the 2020 election and THAT is what the party, leadership and membership really wants.

 

[jnug]

You do realize Sanders was polling on par with Biden among the general? ...and with the added benefit that his brains aren't leaking out from his ears.

Moreover, the touchstones of progressive policy are popular: https://www.debatepolitics.com/2020...-joe-biden-dnc-address-10.html#post1072481957

I mean uh-oh, I guess Trump can go after Sanders for pushing policies most of the country agrees with, including health care reform that even 55% of Republicans now back; that definitely sounds like a sure fire way to bury him.

Bernie buries himself as a candidate within the format of the EC. Without the EC, maybe.....MAYBE Bernie would have a shot. With it, Bernie has and had no shot.

As for 55% of Republicans preferring healthcare reform, I suspect taking the most optimistic view of that you mean revitalize and build on the ACA and who did the ACA? Obama, Biden, Pelosi.

 

[Perotista]

https://twitter.com/SawyerHackett/status/1296584700950175751

So the jist of it is that despite a supermajority of democrats wanting to hear from AOC at the convention, and despite being one of the most popular and notable democratic politicos in the country ( https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1295008521600282624 | CBS News Battleground Tracker, August 12 - 14, 2020.pdf - Google Drive ), AOC was not to get an invitation to speak at the Democratic National Convention at all, and in fact, Sanders had to give her one of his two nomination speaker slots to get her even the scant appearance that progressives rightly complained about as being inadequate. Meanwhile some mainstream media sources, despite obviously knowing better, are going after AOC for nominating Sanders in a traditional, procedural endorsement, or are lambasting her for not being supportive enough of Biden, lol ( Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez accuses NBC of spreading misinformation after DNC speech | US news | The Guardian ). You can't make this **** up.

I mean, it's sadly unsurprising. The Democratic establishment and certain allies are definitely apprehensive about her and the changing of the guard she and the Squad represents, recent losses of long time incumbents such as William Lacy Clay, Elliots Engel and Dan Lipinski to progressives ( two of these wins being huge upsets; Progressive Victories Signal Staying Power for the Movement - The New York Times ), and the crushing re-election of all Squad reps despite well-funded primary competitors, and thus seeks to minimize her exposure and prominence. Again, further continuation of the wagon circling behaviour we've seen throughout the primary and 2016.

Both major parties expect their members and elected officials to march lockstep like mindless robots with the wants of the leaders of each party. To adhere to 100% of their agenda and votes. If one doesn't, at a minimum they'll get labeled a DINO or a RINO or if an elected official, get primaried out. How dare you only support our agenda 99% of the time, you got to go.

No free minded individuals are allowed in either party, pass our litmus tests or out you go.

 

[Surrealistik]

Bernie buries himself as a candidate within the format of the EO. Without the EO, maybe.....MAYBE Bernie would have a shot. With it, Bernie has and had no shot.

By EO do you mean EC, as in Electoral College? If so, according to what? Battleground states also support his policies.

 

[jnug]

By EO do you mean EC, as in Electoral College? If so, according to what? Battleground states also support his policies.

Christ you are right. EO's are such a thing now that my hands automatically find those two keys on the keyboard.

Trump would have turned loose the same weaponized tools he is turning loose on Biden plus would have spend a zillion dollars shoving Bernie's self-avowed status as a Democratic Socialist down his own throat.

Sorry, Bernie never had a shot and you can't dance back and forth over your own argument claiming the polls where relevant to Bernie's actual chance to win the nomination when they clearly were not and then claiming that the polls suggest Bernie had a shot at the battleground states in the face of what would have been a very concerted effort to plaster him with his own words. Do you really want to make the case that those voters would have parsed Democratic Socialist from Socialist when Trump was through with them? I don't even think THAT distinction would have mattered.

 

[jnug]

This country is not ready to put a self-avowed Socialist of any sort in the WH, Democratic Socialist or otherwise. They will have to get the rules changed such that only the Bronx in NY gets to vote for President to pull that off currently and maybe a few districts scattered around the country.

 

[Hypothetical]

BS. Bernie came storming out of the gate and was way ahead, but then the dem leadership saw that the corporations werent gonna back him, so they sabotaged Bernie's campaign.

this absolutely. the candidate will be who the DNC wants the candidate to be, and the DNC wants the candidate to please its corporate/plutocratic masters.

 

[Surrealistik]

Christ you are right. EO's are such a thing now that my hands automatically find those two keys on the keyboard.

Trump would have turned loose the same weaponized tools he is turning loose on Biden plus would have spend a zillion dollars shoving Bernie's self-avowed status as a Democratic Socialist down his own throat.

Sorry, Bernie never had a shot and you can't dance back and forth over your own argument claiming the polls where relevant to Bernie's actual chance to win the nomination when they clearly were not and then claiming that the polls suggest Bernie had a shot at the battleground states in the face of what would have been a very concerted effort to plaster him with his own words. Do you really want to make the case that those voters would have parsed Democratic Socialist from Socialist when Trump was through with them? I don't even think THAT distinction would have mattered.

Uh, I said that the polls prior to Klob and Pete dropping out had him winning ST, which is true. Then they dropped out and endorsed Biden, so obviously those polls no longer hold because they queued people _before_ the drop out, not after. However, Biden's win is still consistent with this old polling information in another capacity, because he ultimately ended up winning by less delegates than Klob and Pete were slated to win combined. I don't know what inconsistency you're trying to point out exactly, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist. And yes, general polls at the time had Sanders up on Trump by amounts comparable to Biden. Meanwhile Sanders policies remain popular in battleground states. It's an extraordinary claim to assert that Sanders has 'no chance' apparently because you imagine neo-McCarthyism to be some kind of insurmountable boogieman, therefore it would be nice to see some necessarily extraordinary evidence in support of your claim.

 

[jnug]

this absolutely. the candidate will be who the DNC wants the candidate to be, and the DNC wants the candidate to please its corporate/plutocratic masters.

That argument would make sense if the rank and file within the Party did not immediately snap to, shaking itself out of its coma in the process.

 

[jnug]

Uh, I said that the polls prior to Klob and Pete dropping out had him winning ST, which is true. Then they dropped out and endorsed Biden, so obviously those polls no longer hold because they queued people _before_ the drop out, not after. However, Biden's win is still consistent with this old polling information in another capacity, because he ultimately ended up winning by less delegates than Klob and Pete were slated to win combined. I don't know what inconsistency you're trying to point out exactly, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist. And yes, general polls at the time had Sanders up on Trump by amounts comparable to Biden. Meanwhile Sanders policies remain popular in battleground states. It's an extraordinary claim to assert that Sanders has 'no chance' apparently because you imagine neo-McCarthyism to be some kind of insurmountable boogieman, therefore it would be nice to see some necessarily extraordinary evidence in support of your claim.

You are banking arguments on unlikely outcomes. Did Amy and Pete have an actual shot at the nomination? NO. Were their politics closer to Biden's or closer to Bernies? Biden's. Are all three, Pete, Amy and Biden Party mainliners? YES. Is Bernie a Party mainliner? NO.

Do you actually think that Party mainliners do not get that Bernie simply uses the Dem Party as his own personal rag doll and and do you actually think that they are just fine with that?

Did they think having a self-avowed Democratic Socialist at the top of their ticket made any sense at all for the Party and further that Bernie could beat Trump with that label? NOOOOOO!!!!!

 

[Hypothetical]

If you call "Build That Wall" a message.

Build a wall,
push back against unfair trade practices and aggressiveness by china,
wanting to stop rioting and looting to help average americans
have a great economy, until the covid crisis hurt us and he can aid in doing so again.
investigate corruption in our nations law enforcement agency,

just a few things that make up the President's message.

 

[jnug]

Further if the DEMs want to have a sensible Primary process, leave NH where it is, compel states like Nevada away from their stupid caucuses which are for crap anyway and are simply efforts to beat NH's first in the nation primary to the punch. The DEM party claims to be the big tent party. They simply need to stuff more primaries from states featuring diversity at the head of line and they won't have this nonsense of who actually has a shot at gaining the nomination and who does not.

 

[Surrealistik]

You are banking arguments on unlikely outcomes. Did Amy and Pete have an actual shot at the nomination? NO. Were their politics closer to Biden's or closer to Bernies? Biden's. Are all three, Pete, Amy and Biden Party mainliners? YES. Is Bernie a Party mainliner? NO.

Do you actually think that Party mainliners do not get that Bernie simply uses the Dem Party as his own personal rag doll and and do you actually think that they are just fine with that?

I mean, Biden didn't really have a shot either until Clyburn rescued his ass from the fire.

And sure, they played dirty, partisan politics, circling the wagons in a transparent, desperate attempt to stop Sanders, but that in itself wasn't guaranteed to thwart him; what it did do was give Biden a real chance to gain the momentum edge and win; luckily it worked out for them. Also, let's face it, it has little to do with Sanders being a 'foreigner' to the party or an 'exploiter' (and Sanders has done plenty to bolster the Democratic party and fundraise for it, including graciously after his not entirely honest defeat in 2016), as opposed to attempts to maintain the factional dominance of the pro-corporate wing. Pelosi literally just backstabbed long time senator Ed Markey to back the more conservative Joe Kennedy in direct contravention of her own position on not challenging incumbents. Moreover, it's entirely another thing to plainly assert that 'Sanders had no chance', assuming he were nominee as you have.

 

[jnug]

I mean, Biden didn't really have a shot either until Clyburn rescued his ass from the fire.

And sure, they played dirty, partisan politics, circling the wagons in a transparent, desperate attempt to stop Sanders but that in itself wasn't guaranteed to stop it; what it did do was give Biden a real chance to gain the momentum edge and win; luckily it worked out for them. Also, let's face it, it has nothing to do with Sanders being a 'foreigner' to the party or an 'exploiter' (and Sanders has done plenty to bolster the Democratic party and fundraise for it, including graciously after his not entirely honest defeat in 2016), and more about factional dominance of the pro-corporate wing. Pelosi literally just backstabbed long time senator Ed Markey to back the more conservative Joe Kennedy, in direct contravention of her own position on not challenging incumbents. Moreover, it's entirely another thing to assert that 'Sanders had no chance', assuming he were nominee as you have.

With all due respect that might be the most political naive line of text I have ever read here.

Then you can show me how and why America....AMERICA is ready to elect or even consider a self-avowed Democratic Socialist for the WH. Good luck with that. The Bronx might be ready and that is about it. You are dreaming and if the true goal is to get Trump out of there as it should be, then Biden has the best shot at it and Biden always had the better shot at the nomination. Do you know how I know? HE WON!

Do you not realize how absurdly unmoored DonDon would be as a lame duck? You really don't want the best possible shot at getting him outta' there?

 

[Surrealistik]

With all due respect that might be the most political naive line of text I have ever read here. Then you can show me how and why America....AMERICA is ready to elect or even consider a self-avowed Democratic Socialist for the WH. Good luck with that. The Bronx might be ready and that is about it. You are dreaming and if the true goal is to get Trump out of there as it should be, then Biden has the best shot at it.

Do you not realize how absurdly unmoored DonDon would be as a lame duck? You really don't want the best possible shot at getting him outta' there?

Sure. Because the core of what Sanders advocates for has solid majority support in the country as I've shown you, and much of it is tried and proven in most of the rest of the developed world.

And yes, I stand by what I said; at best to attack Sanders for being 'not a real Democrat' despite caucusing, fundraising and acting alongside Democrats incessantly is a feeble excuse, and a cover for their desire to preserve factional hegemony. Why else would Pelosi endorse Kennedy against a 50 year incumbent progressive Senator despite her own policy on that (i.e. not challenging incumbents)? Why would the Dem party fail to investigate one of the challengers to the Squad (who are all Democrats) who openly admitted to using a series of shell companies to protect Dem campaign vendors from obliged penalties per that same policy? Why does the party engage in routine minimization of progressive Democratic representatives, such as denying AOC her appearance at the convention the rank and file of the party clearly wanted? The reason is obvious: they want to win that internal power struggle.

Lastly, Sanders was the best shot we had; already polls are narrowing for Joe in the battleground states despite Trump's epic mismanagement of the COVID crisis, which should have all but guaranteed Biden's success.

 

[jnug]

As for Pelosi backing Kennedy, I think she should have steered clear of that but not because of some position about challenging incumbents. Her position and the DEM House caucus position is specific to House incumbents, not Senate incumbents. She is not stabbing Markey in the back.