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Divorce

FinnMacCool

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My parents are going through a divorce right now. From the way things are going, it looks like its going to be a pretty painful one. I don't really understand everything that is going on since its not really any of my business but I wonder how come divorces are now up to almost fifty percent? Is it just because people are having a hard time controlling themselves or what?
 

Howard Beale

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First, I wish you perspective, peace and serenity during this time.

Second, thanks for opening this thread.

Finally: WOW! Have you opened an important subject!

I am the child of divorced parent. I have siblings who went through that divorce with me. I am a divorced man. I have children who went through that divorce. I am a single parent for reason that would require that I speak about or for someone else, something I try not to do.

I have spent the greater part of my life wrestling with issues like the one you raise. I have read a lot of the books, been to a lot of the seminars, and attended a lot of programs. Most were helpful. None had an answer. Drifting through the divorce handbooks seminars and programs finally lead me back to subjects I had studied earlier: psychology, philosophy and theology. It is in these studies that understanding came – not answers, but understanding. I can only give you the product of that journey.

First, I would suggest – and everything I say are simply suggestions, I know full well how little I know – I suggest that you do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself. The important thing is to try to get perspective and see what is going on through a celar lens, not one tinted by taboos and distortions.

Thank God that your parents are divorcing, not terminally ill. Spinoza said that we should live with death on our shoulder. When something as serious seeming as this is going on, you need to get perspective. Rather than focus on the aspects than may appear negative, focus on those that are positive: life, health, well-being.

Society impresses on us that certain things are bad and other things are good. That is the society’s perspective. Usually we take on the society’s perspective and forget that we have a perspective of our own. It is difficult to live by our perspectives and understandings if they are in conflict with our society’s. When we take on society’s perspectives and beliefs, we then have emotional reactions based on those beliefs. If I believe that being a homosexual condemns my child to hell, I may very well have a strong emotional response if I learn that my child is a homosexual. If I believe that sexuality is a personal experience and it is all good, then I don’t have a very strong emotional reaction if I learn my child is gay. If I take on the belief that divorce is bad, then I will have a strong reaction if my parents or child get divorced. If I believe that life takes us on journey that we cannot foresee and that we cannot know the reason for things or how they work out, then I will not have a strong an emotions reaction. For your own well being I humbly suggest that you search out your real belief on divorce and question honestly and fearlessly the basis for your belief. Perhaps you are well on the way to doing that. If so, journey on.

As far as your question with regard to why there are so many divorces… I will try to get back to you. That is an even more difficult subject to find the words for.

All the best.
 

Calm2Chaos

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FinnMacCool said:
My parents are going through a divorce right now. From the way things are going, it looks like its going to be a pretty painful one. I don't really understand everything that is going on since its not really any of my business but I wonder how come divorces are now up to almost fifty percent? Is it just because people are having a hard time controlling themselves or what?
I think there are far to many variables to come up with a single reason. The simplest reason is people change. Your views on life change, your circumstances chage, life changes. Being divorced i know the changes. I was great friends with my ex-wife before we were married and for a number of years afterwords. But then it changed, we changed, it was slow but it picked up steam. Soon it was fighting and screaming all the time. There are small things that your spoese may or may not do that irritates you or anooys you. In the beginging you have the patients or the abillity to overlook them. But there a time when the pressures start to build that the small things get big and the big things crush you.

In the end, the fault for divorce lays on only two people and two people only.
 

Nezdragon

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FinnMacCool said:
My parents are going through a divorce right now. From the way things are going, it looks like its going to be a pretty painful one. I don't really understand everything that is going on since its not really any of my business but I wonder how come divorces are now up to almost fifty percent? Is it just because people are having a hard time controlling themselves or what?
I think it has something to do with the lack of responsibility and vague definition of love. People seem to think that if you have sex, you're in love. Too many people think they are in love with the other person, only to discover that they have incompatible personalities (or they are unwilling to change). Also, people get married either too soon or without preparing (i.e. talking it over, making plans for the future, etc.). It's very troubling to see that one in every two married couples will divorce. There is a moral degradation in society, which stems from a lot of different things.
 

Technocratic_Utilitarian

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See. It's obvious that homosexuals are the cause of the decline of marriage. Just the thought of them getting married causes massive social distortions in the cultural continuum.:spin:


Frankly, we have such a high divorce rate and it can be related to human biology and inbred mentality. Most animals (or many) are not monogomous, long-term individuals. Humans, especially males, are meant to go from one person to the next propagating as much as possinble, because that's how nature works with many species. Humans are just more social than other creatures. If you look at the animal kingdom, males bibbidy-bounce from one creature to the next.

I don't believe many people can get passed the natural instinct in humankind. Women tend to have a maternal instinct (but that can be repressed). Men have the slutty instinct. I don't believe people are naturally keen on monogomy, even though it has been a part of culture for quite some time. Theoretically, the idea does have value and it does have utility, but the reality does not always conform to the ideal.

Men are sluts, and people have a hard time getting along with each other over time. Affection fades. One reason could be that Humans, like many animals, are significantly hedonistic, and when that "lust" disappears or when the desire to procreate is over, so is the relationship. It's sad. I don't really care for relationships, because they are too risky. I think of marriage and relationships as business ventures.
 

hiker

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I hope you find the one to change your mind. Dying alone is no way to go...
 
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teenonfire4him77

This is my personal opinion on why, don't go off on some rant on how christianity is bull or whatever because that is not the issue here. MY opinion just happens to stem from my belief in God.

I think that the reasons why msot marriage fail is because there God is not the bases of their marriage. His love and a relationship with him and comign to that in union with your partner so you can have the intimate bond is the most amzing thing in the world to experience. Also, even when these marriages do start out as a Christian one, people forget that we should serve God first, and not ourselves, and when we do, he will bless us in so many ways (as i can give a witness too).
People live in a humanistic mindset: which is defined as 'The Pursuit of man should be to be as happy as he can possibly can be'
People get hurt and wounded in this mindset, how many of your parents are divorced just because 'They are not happy anymore'?
We can't live that way, then no one can be truly happy.
When we decide that we will no longer live for myself, but we want to live for eternity...is when we strive to live for the Lord, to take pride in being Christ-like, selfless, humble, loving, compassionate etc...and everything good in life. In keeping the Lords love and alive in our relationships and families!
When we die to ourselves daily, when we wake up and make that concious decsion to be like Christ today. I will be loving and faithful to my husband, We will take our problems to the Lord and talk them out and forgive just as Jesus would. (because i know a lot of marriages end because of infidelity)
 

Technocratic_Utilitarian

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The only problem here is that the focus of Humanism is not necessarily only the pursuit of happiness. That's hedononism or hedonistic utilitarianism. Humanism is different, or at least it has different varients.
 
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teenonfire4him77

Technocratic_Utilitarian said:
The only problem here is that the focus of Humanism is not necessarily only the pursuit of happiness. That's hedononism or hedonistic utilitarianism. Humanism is different, or at least it has different varients.
elighten me please
 

Technocratic_Utilitarian

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On what part? Humanism? Utilitarianism.

Humanism and Utilitarianism are not the same things, but Utilitarianism can use Humanism to accomplish the greater good or the greatest happiness. The goal of Humanism, however, is not exactly hedonism if you read the Secular Humanist Manifesto. It's typically humanitarian, welfarist, and rights-based.
 
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teenonfire4him77

Technocratic_Utilitarian said:
On what part? Humanism? Utilitarianism.

Humanism and Utilitarianism are not the same things, but Utilitarianism can use Humanism to accomplish the greater good or the greatest happiness. The goal of Humanism, however, is not exactly hedonism if you read the Secular Humanist Manifesto. It's typically humanitarian, welfarist, and rights-based.
Humanism, what are the different varients of it that you mentioned?
 

FinnMacCool

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I have come to a conclusion!

OKay so supposing marriage is a box. Two people are in a box and they get married depending on how they feel the box will provide for them. However, they are both seperate human beings with goals and the like. THey except the box to provide for them but alas it doesn't always.

As for the question of why there are so many divorces, I believe that its because people simply didn't get divorced and tried to work things out back then. But that was not always a good thing. Actually come to think of it, sometimes divorce is really the best optiion. People will say divorce hurts a kid but maybe divorce is a better alternative? This is wha tI think now anyways.

Thank you all for your responses. Its been very helpful.
 

Technocratic_Utilitarian

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Humanism, what are the different varients of it that you mentioned?
There are two major types of Humanism I am aware off: Religious Humanism and Secular Humanism. Both see not specifically happiness, but the welfare and progress of the human civilization as the primary goal. If you read the secular humanist manifesto, the idea is to promote human well-being, which isn't exactly the same thing has happiness, but you can fit that under that broad envelope. Utilitarianism is different, since it has a version that almost exclusively focuses on happiness.

There are, however, lots of other more specific types of humanism:

Some of the below are similiar in many ways (IE secular and modern etc)

Literary Humanism
Renaissance Humanism
Cultural Humanism
Philosophical Humanism
Christian Humanism
Modern Humanism, also called Naturalistic Humanism, Scientific Humanism, Ethical Humanism and Democratic Humanism

Secular Humanism

Religious Humanism


I live largely by the great manifesto.
 
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Iriemon

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Marriage is a compact you make with someone that carries with it social/religious ramifications. Marriage makes sense for a lot of reasons -- economically a two parent unit works better than a single parent, and while I think the data is mixed, IMO two parents are generally better for the kids, if nothing else than the concept that two kids are better than one. Having a partner in life also is (or can be) beneficial in many ways.

The problem is, finding that partner is a "maybe" kind of things. People choose their partners for marriage, but sometimes they choose wrong. Or circumstances change. Then the question becomes, I am not happy with this person. Why should I spend the next 40 years of my life with a person I am not happy being with? There are a thousand reasons that could come about.

Frankly, IMO, if there are no kids involved, I see it hard to argue you should. If there are kids involved, then there are other responsibilities, the decision to leave the marriage has consequences on others for whom you have responsibilities. In that situation, IMO there is a much greater responsibility to keep the family unit together, even if the person you are married to is not a person you are happy being with.

Divorce rates have increased for a number of reasons. I think changing social mores is a major one, but at least as significant is longer life spans. Must people didn't start thinking about divorce at age 45 or 50 60 years ago because most folks were dead at that age, or soon would be. Now when you are 45 you have a realistic probability of living another 30 years or so, and the issue of whether to stay married becomes more pronounced.
 

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Woman are disobediant today they do not listen to their husbands
morals are low in America
America's schools only teach 60% politically correct history
it has led America a mere 5% of humanity to become arrogant
and thus has no foundation to have high moral standards
you live a lie
you will die with it as your dogma as well I suppose
 

ngdawg

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Canuck said:
Woman are disobediant today they do not listen to their husbands
:2rofll: :2rofll:

Divorce rates are high, but that's not why, dood.
More women file for divorce than men. In past generations, they were dependant on the man for monetary support but that's not always the case now.
Personal happiness is more the goal than personal sacrifice for the 'good of the family'. Why should anyone at all be miserable just so everyone else can be happy? And women are realizing this even more than men now.
Humans are not monogamous. It's a choice to be. And that goes back to personal happiness-the choice should be one that's best for that individual.
For years, my mom threatened to divorce my father, every time he pissed her off, but she never did. They've been married 55 years now. I don't know how things would have turned out had she carried out her threats, but they're happy now, I think. Was it worth going through hell to get to that place? Maybe. Neither is alone, they enjoy doing things retired old people do...and they take care of each other.
The divorce is your parents' choice, for whatever reasons they alone have. Have faith that it's a decision that, in the long run, will bring them contentment with their lives.
 

FinnMacCool

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Woman are disobediant today they do not listen to their husbands
morals are low in America
America's schools only teach 60% politically correct history
it has led America a mere 5% of humanity to become arrogant
and thus has no foundation to have high moral standards
you live a lie
you will die with it as your dogma as well I suppose
Where do you get those figures from?
 

CaliNORML

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Divorce ugly, huh. A complete or radical severance of closely connected things.


I was shocked as a young woman to see the flaws and darker sides of my parents as our family went throught this amputation.

Why are there more divorces today than the past? Social acceptance, new laws, looking for the easier way for ourselves to deal in life today. Like single mothers up until the 1960's divorce carried a social stigma, a scarlet letter almost. In fact when after the WW 2 in England women who were now working and making money started to file for divorces at record numbers, and the suicide rate dropped 43% among women. People have not always been happy together even when they stayed as a couple, obligation and fear of osterization forced them to stay together more often that not. The penalty for disolving a marriage was stiff in some states, "Cheaper to keep her" was the motto. Now no fault and prenups are standard making marriage more like a gym membership than a life long commitment. Commited only to ourselves nowdays it seems when things get messy, alot of people bail out rather than tough it out, and the ones such as youself are lost to what will make them better, not better for you.

I can not say I know what you are going through, even if i went throught a matching experience. This death of your past life is worthy of grief, mourning, and the healing that has to take place to let you go on with life. A complete or radical severance of closely connected things, thats a huge loss and even if everyone else is acting happy this is occuring, excited about new things upcoming in life and their own perceived freedom. You have the right to miss that, because to you it was not the same experience as theirs. I can impart one other thing, this one took me 30 years to understand myself so here goes. Children look at parents as if their lifes began when they were born, perfect in childish eyes and untouched by life in young minds yet reality is far from this; instead they too are human bearers of baggage, trauma, and carry personal events that shaped their own lives into parenthood. Often Parents hid these things not speaking about them to their own children yearning to uphold that vision of perfection they see reflected in a childs eyes when they look upon them. Can you blame us? Go easy on them but make what your family was to you real and respected as well.

Last advice, ok Granny wisdom here, "The key to a long marriage is that of the two people in it, each one can never fall out of love with the other one at the same time."

KMS
 
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