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Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Watch

Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

All of which makes you more than completely wrong.

The fact is that 75% is a figure that you conceded only after being pressed on the issue and which is a special pleading case on your part when compared to other procedures. You are wrong that any procedure has to have a 100% success rate to be considered valid and your arbitrary application of that principle to SRS demonstrates your ignorance and prejudice.

The fact is that this data indicates that this treatment has a success rate far in excess of 75% so, even by your failed arbitrary standard, the treatment is valid.

I suggest that you stop now and try some damage limitation.

I'll even agree that 65% satisfaction with their lives after surgery is pretty good. But, it's a far cry from the 90% that you all seem to be pushing.

Why don't you all just stick to the 65% figure and say, the surgery shows some benefits. Saying 90% are floating on clouds after surgery is simply nonsense.
 
Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

Poor calamity... you ****ed up and now you are backing away from the study YOU posted. This always happens with you. You post a study that actually destroys your position, so you have to find an exit strategy... just as I have said you always do.



Incorrect. 92% are satisfied with function. You are lying or misreading the research again. I proved this in post #765.



Admit your lies or errors and we can get to this.



This is a classic conspiracy theory error. Perhaps they dropped out of the study or didn't respond because they were happy enough to not bother.



Nope. The 90% stands and just wait until you see how you've actually proved it. But that will be for later. 87% and 92%. Did you lie or were in error because you can't read research?
Wrong!

"37.6% were satisfied, and 34.4% very satisfied, with the functional outcome."

why do you insist on repeating this 92% lie?
 
Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

I'll even agree that 65% satisfaction with their lives after surgery is pretty good. But, it's a far cry from the 90% that you all seem to be pushing.

Why don't you all just stick to the 65% figure and say, the surgery shows some benefits. Saying 90% are floating on clouds after surgery is simply nonsense.

90% has been proven. I've shown it in many studies. Your 65% is actually false. And we can get to that once you admit that you either lied or misread the research around the 87% and the 92%.
 
Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

Wrong!

"37.6% were satisfied, and 34.4% very satisfied, with the functional outcome."

why do you insist on repeating this 92% lie?

No, as usual, you are either lying or cannot read the research:

72% were satisfied or very satisfied. A further 19.4% were mostly satisfied with functional outcome. That's 91.4%. calamity loses yet again.
 
Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

No, as usual, you are either lying or cannot read the research:

72% were satisfied or very satisfied. A further 19.4% were mostly satisfied with functional outcome. That's 91.4%. calamity loses yet again.

lol...now you're throwing in "mostly satisfied." And, you wonder why I scoff at all your subjective evidence that supposedly proves this SRS crap is the panacea to this dysphoria thing.
 
Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

90% has been proven. I've shown it in many studies. Your 65% is actually false. And we can get to that once you admit that you either lied or misread the research around the 87% and the 92%.

Your 90% is bullcrap. It's pretty much useless, as this report shows. But, for a cherry picker like you, I can see why some of those numbers are to your liking.
 
Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

lol...now you're throwing in "mostly satisfied." And, you wonder why I scoff at all your subjective evidence that supposedly proves this SRS crap is the panacea to this dysphoria thing.

So, why don't you put together a decent argument as to why 'mostly satisfied' is not acceptable?
 
Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

lol...now you're throwing in "mostly satisfied." And, you wonder why I scoff at all your subjective evidence that supposedly proves this SRS crap is the panacea to this dysphoria thing.

Poor calamity. Shown to be a liar again and has absolutely NOTHING to refute my destruction of him.
 
Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

Your 90% is bullcrap. It's pretty much useless, as this report shows. But, for a cherry picker like you, I can see why some of those numbers are to your liking.

My 90% is proven right in the research that YOU posted. I always enjoy how you post information that proves you wrong. I am 100% convinced that you never read anything that you link to.

But, we still have an important question that has not been answered:

So calamity... when you said 61.2%, did you LIE or did you just show that you couldn't read the research correctly?
 
Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

My 90% is proven right in the research that YOU posted. I always enjoy how you post information that proves you wrong. I am 100% convinced that you never read anything that you link to.

But, we still have an important question that has not been answered:

So calamity... when you said 61.2%, did you LIE or did you just show that you couldn't read the research correctly?

I made an error. Didn't you get that memo yet?
 
Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

So, why don't you put together a decent argument as to why 'mostly satisfied' is not acceptable?

It's just a vague term. Hell, I was "mostly satisfied" with my ex-wife. But, yet here I am married to someone else, with whom I am very satisfied.
 
Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

I made an error. Didn't you get that memo yet?

And I already addressed your "error" in the other thread. You made the original claim on 6/9... and retracted on 6/12... after I confronted you for several days. If you had any integrity on the issue, you would have retracted far earlier.
 
Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

I'm backing off on arguing LGBT issues right now. Maybe come back to it in a few days.

Yes, calamity... this is probably a good idea. Lick your multiple wounds and try to heal up from the shellacking you have been getting. In the mean time, I will take it upon myself to demonstrate, once again, how much you lie on this issue, how little you are able to read research, and just how poor a debater you are. We should start with the research that you posted here, supposedly trying to support your position. But even before that, we should examine the claim that you are trying to refute:

Here are examples of my claims:

Yet, she still doesn't regret having SRS. But tell me calamity, will you be showing any refutation of the sources that prove >90% satisfaction?
Studies show that >90% of people who have had SRS are satisfied with the results
The fact that >90% who have SRS are satisfied.
That >90% of transsexuals are satisfied after SRS?
90% have no regrets of having SRS.

And here are two other studies that should be mentioned:

Male-to-female transsexualism: a technique, results and long-term follow-up in 66 patients. - PubMed - NCBI

More than 90% of the patients were satisfied with the cosmetic result and capacity for orgasm;
None of the present patients claimed to regret their decision to undergo gender-transforming surgery.

https://www.skane.se/Upload/Webbplatser/USIL/Dokument/Sjukhusbibliotek/Johansson,%20Annika.pdf

However, the outcome was very encouraging from both perspectives, with almost 90% enjoying a stable or improved life situation at follow-up
When interviewed about how content they were with the SR process as a whole, almost all the patients (95%) rated themselves as satisfied and no one regretted the SR.

Now, there are other studies that show NO regret, but for illustrative purposes, I am posting these.

Continued...
 
Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

The issue that calamity is trying desperately to disprove is that >90% of transsexuals are satisfied with SRS... and do not regret the surgery. calamity has tried... fairly pathetically... to disprove this. He has used out of context quotes from Renee Richards, quotes that DON'T say what he is claiming, and has falsely reported data. Now, let's move to the research that calamity posted here:

Pretty good guess on my part. 61.2% satisfied, with only about half of those asked responding.

Satisfaction With Male-to-Female Gender Reassignment Surgery

There are several problems with the number that calamity posts, here, most of which I have already exposed... HOWEVER, there is a larger error that I have been saving. What we know is that calamity misrepresented the number. He "claims" that it was a simple misread/error, but that really doesn't wash for a couple of reasons. Firstly, calamity was looking for something in the 60s... his post just before that indicated that's what he was predicting. He found a number in the 60s and just stopped reading. Is this pure laziness? Confirmation bias? Dishonesty? Only calamity knows. 35 minutes after calamity made that post, I corrected him, posting the actual numbers (87%). So, how did calamity respond? In a purely cowardly fashion, he didn't bother to address the 61.2%, instead, he shifted the goalposts and used a different measure, a figure of 65%. He NEVER addressed his error. Now, the two numbers measure two different things. The 61.2%... actually 87% measures the level of satisfaction a transsexual has with their appearance after SRS. The 65% measures how satisfied the transsexual is with their life. These are two different measures. Not only did calamity NOT retract his error, instead he just went searching for ANOTHER number in the 60s.

So when did calamity actually retract the 61.2%? Not 24 hours later. At that point, he said this:

I read it as 62% were satisfied with their appearance, with 25% being very satisfied. You read it as 87% combined. I think you are wrong

He is still lying about the issue at this point. Finally, a few hours later, he starts substituting 87% for 61.2%... but doesn't actually admit he was wrong for another 2 days... and even then, he makes some stupid excuse which, based on what he posted and how, is just that... a stupid excuse to cover for the fact that he just went looking for a number in the 60s, never actually reading the research.

Now, this particular issue gets even more muddied. calamity makes the claim that I am focused on appearance by quoting the 87%. There are two problems with this. I am quoting the 87% because calamity LIED about the number, and since it was calamity who initially presented it, it is CALAMITY who is obviously only focused on appearance, showing a misogynistic side.

But guess what? All of this is either smoke and mirrors or just irrelevant. calamity doesn't read research and when shown to be wrong, manipulates and alters the goals posts. The issue that was SUPPOSED to be addressed was this:

>90% of transsexuals who have SRS are satisfied with those results. I have been clear on this position for MANY threads and MANY posts and have posted many studies that prove this... studies of which calamity has refused to try to refute... because he can't. calamity's 61.2%... or actually 87% is NOT the measure that I am presenting. It focuses on appearance only. That's calamity's issue... appearance. Not mine. We then had another measure... 92% are satisfied with the functionality after SRS. Both this and the other measure are subsets of what I have been presenting. There are two other subsets: 97.3% were very satisfied, satisfied, or mostly satisfied with the aesthetic outcome of SRS. 98.2% were very satisfied, satisfied, or mostly satisfied with the SRS process. The best way to find the success rate of SRS for the transsexuals studied would be to average out all of those numbers. And we get... 92.9% satisfaction rate. That's about the best predictor that we can have of the post-SRS satisfaction.

Continued...
 
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Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

But wait... what about calamity's 65%? It doesn't exist. The researchers cite it... but then, they cite a completely different number when they use the statistics. This is the one area where the researchers did not do a good job in differentiating of scores. They used a Likert scale to gauge satisfaction with one's lives. The Likert Scale is ordinal, and their scale was from 1-10. They listed the raw scores, but did not assign them values. Based on the raw scores 6.9% of respondents were in the dissatisfied category (raw score of 1-3). 38.2% were in the fairly satisfied category (4-7) and 54.9% were in the satisfied/very satisfied category (8-10). So, what does this mean? Well the researchers of the study say it themselves:


Regardless of surgical results, over half of patients (54.9%) were in the top third (“completely satisfied”) and a further 38.2% in the middle third (“fairly satisfied”) of the general life satisfaction scale.


That gives us a 93.1% rate of satisfaction in the general life satisfaction scale. There are no statistics that substantiate the 65% number. The researchers themselves state, above, that 93.1% would be accurate.
Now, I do have issue with the question used to obtain this measure. The question is this:


5. How satisfied are you with your life now, on a scale from 1 (very dissatisfied) to 10 (very satisfied)?


From a research perspective, this is a very poorly worded question because it is far too ambiguous. This is odd, since the authors of the study did a great job with making all of their other questions VERY specific. The question above does not address how satisfied one is with the RESULTS of SRS, which is what I have been presenting. The question asks a general "how satisfied are you with your life, now?" There are other components that could have gone into this question, making the question itself ambiguous, causing confounds. Anyone who has done research knows that the wording of the question is the KEY to getting valid results. This question does not achieve reliablity, as there are unknown variables that could be included. The question SHOULD have read, "How satisfied are you with your life now as a result of SRS, on a scale from 1 (very dissatisfied) to 10 (very satisfied)?" That would have yielded far more meaningful results, and results that would have actually addressed my position more clearly. However, I do find it interesting that the 93.1% number is nearly identical to my 92.9% number. I prefer my number because it is more statistically accurate and doesn't run into the confound of the question used for the 93.1%.


So, calamity failed when he first reported the results, citing an incorrect number, an incorrect measure, and behaving in a misogynistic way. calamity THEN failed by citing a number that is not justified with the statistics in the study, missed the actual number representing the measure, and both failed to consider the confounds of a poorly worded question and a measure that did not meet, specifically, the criteria of my challenge. The CORRECT figure, based on the statistics of the study and based on my position challenge, would be somewhere in the range of 92%, well within my >90% position. So, in other words, calamity failed, yet again.


Oh, and to add insult to injury, the study cited OTHER studies. Here's what they had to say:


Löwenberg reported 92% general satisfaction with the outcome of gender reassignment surgery.
Imbimbo et al. found a similarly high satisfaction rate (94%)
In the authors’ own study population (Hess, et al), general satisfaction with surgery was achieved in 87.4% of patients.
Happich found more than 90% satisfaction with gender reassignment.
Sohn et al., subjective satisfaction rates of 80% can be expected following gender reassignment surgery.

Now, what have we learned? We have learned that my 90% position is largely and overwhelmingly accurate. Sure, there are a few studies that are less. But they are outliers. Most demonstrate a 90% satisfaction rate after SRS.


So, this is an excellent example of calamity's shoddy debating and shoddy research examinations. It is also a great example of calamity's dishonesty and manipulation tactics in debate. Finally, and not surprisingly, it demonstrates my complete superiority over calamity on this issue.

Now, my prediction is that calamity will either lie about what I've posted, divert or dodge, make some really dumb one-liner that refutes nothing of mine and supports nothing of his, or ignore this all an hope it goes away.

It won't.


Pwned.
 
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Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

The issue that calamity is trying desperately to disprove is that >90% of transsexuals are satisfied with SRS... and do not regret the surgery. calamity has tried... fairly pathetically... to disprove this. He has used out of context quotes from Renee Richards, quotes that DON'T say what he is claiming, and has falsely reported data. Now, let's move to the research that calamity posted here:

..

Ya, that will be some tough going...from a german study M to F:

It is likely that most patients do not actually regret their decision to undergo surgery, even though general postoperative satisfaction is limited. Löwenberg’s figures also show this (19): 69% of those asked were satisfied with their overall life situation, but 96% would opt for surgery again.
Satisfaction With Male-to-Female Gender Reassignment Surgery
 
Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

Ya, that will be some tough going...from a german study M to F:


Satisfaction With Male-to-Female Gender Reassignment Surgery

So, when calamity claims that lots regret having SRS, and the study that you cited shows that 96% would have it again, how many of those 96% do you think regret the surgery?

Yes, it's a trick question. It's actually a question to demonstrate whether or not you are hypocritical on this issue or not, since the answer is right there in the numbers.
 
Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

So, when calamity claims that lots regret having SRS, and the study that you cited shows that 96% would have it again, how many of those 96% do you think regret the surgery?

Yes, it's a trick question. It's actually a question to demonstrate whether or not you are hypocritical on this issue or not, since the answer is right there in the numbers.

Stipulating that this is Germany, which is not USA. But it does show what is possible.

Calamity has a tough task:

Surgical regret is actually very uncommon. Virtually every modern study puts it below 4 percent, and most estimate it to be between 1 and 2 percent (Cohen-Kettenis & Pfafflin 2003, Kuiper & Cohen-Kettenis 1998, Pfafflin & Junge 1998, Smith 2005, Dhejne 2014). In some other recent longitudinal studies, none of the subjects expressed regret over medically transitioning (Krege et al. 2001, De Cuypere et al. 2006)
Myths About Transition Regrets

.....since you gotta figure that with all the practice the docs are getting better at it.
 
Re: Disturbing Video Shows Transgender Woman Being Attacked on NYC Train as Riders Wa

Stipulating that this is Germany, which is not USA. But it does show what is possible.

Calamity has a tough task:


Myths About Transition Regrets

.....since you gotta figure that with all the practice the docs are getting better at it.

Good. You passed the hypocrisy check question. And I have read those and other studies similar. Regret ranges from 2%-10% depending on the study, for the most part. More recent studies tend to have lower levels of regret as, you are correct, doctors are getting better at the surgeries.
 
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