I think I did but you didn't want to accept the implication. It's the doctrinal Christians who are destroying the clear gospel message of hope, and supplementing it with useless and arcane theology, which only weakens the Christian witness.
The message of God's transformation love, as expressed through his willingness to let his only son die to prove it, resonates through the centuries and is told on streetcorners today. It changes people.
The obscure incoherent arguments about trinities and original sin only make Christianity appear odd and soulless. That's why traditional Christianity is on the wane. Nobody, I mean nobody, has ever been transformed by the doctrinal story about God being three persons, but different yet one, which you have to believe and profess to be "saved" even if it's impossible to understand. It's the church of the four-sided triangle. In contrast, hundreds of millions have been transformed by the simple narrative of the gospel, embodied in John 3:16.
Mind you, it's clear to me Jesus is divine, though the implications of that are profound and can't be reduced to trinities, much less some empty creed. But be that as it may, that's not the gospel narrative and that's the one that counts. Not what you or I think about God's essence.
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I see, I thought you were making the argument that Jesus was refering to the divine name, in saying "I AM."
But yes, Jesus was saying that he existed in some form prior to abraham.
Show me the scripture in revelation so I can respond to the actual scripture, it can get tricky because there are 3 greek words sometimes translated "worship" the most common one is proskuneu, which is used for King David, Angels and others, put show the the specific verse so I know what you're talking about.
As far as the rich man, here is the text in Mark. (similar wording in Luke)
17 As he was setting out on a journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 18 Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.
Matthew
16 Then someone came to him and said, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good.
If he was talking about himself he would have said so, had this been understood as Jesus referring to himself as God, you don't think the rich man would have picked up on it? Obviously he didn't.
Trying to make that text be Jesus talking about himself when he says "why do you call me good, only God is good?" Is stretching it to the point of absurdity.
I've brought both of your responses here.
I appreciate your apparent desire to know the truth. I am of the same bent. As you indicate, we can have our opinions all day long, but the truth will not be shaken. We'd best try to grasp the truth then, as it is the only firm foundation on which to build our lives.
I will give my questions, then arguments, then my opinions.
Question: If Jesus is divine, but not God, what / who is he? Another god? I am not clear on your reasoning here. I agree, even the trinitarian view is a difficult thing for the mind to grasp, so your own idea of what the paradigm is might be equally difficult. Can you take a stab at it?
Arguments:
The scripture in revelation can be found here, although I didn't quote it. It does not say he is worthy of worship. They simply said he is worthy, and then they bowed down and worshiped him. The meaning is I think the same in spite of my misquote.
Revelation 5 NIV
The Lamb and God are sitting together, Jesus at God's right hand, and this is the final statement in the passage:
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”
14The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
There are several other attributes that could lead one to understand that Jesus is God. These are:
Living a sinless life.
The forgiveness of the sin of others. The Jews understood that only God could do this.
Laying down his life and taking it up again. What other created being can do this?
Opinions:
I don't know how you can make such a factual statement that Trinitarian doctrine has saved no person. You can't actually know this. It is clear that it has strongly affected you at some point. Can you talk about that a bit?
Traditional Christianity is a construct of man. Living Christianity is the one true church. Accepting his son, having a personal relationship, and doing the Father's will is what makes up the true church. It is love. It is truth. If Christianity is on the wane, my belief is that this is due to deviation from these basic things. Jesus summed it up as: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind."
Even the recent Biblical series got this simple part wrong when they had Jesus say the most important thing is to love your neighbor as yourself. It was a lie plane and simple. I believe this was an attempt possibly at trying to "make Christianity relevant" (I may be being generous) but in doing so, it destroyed the true Gospel. In my mind this is why the church is suffering. Itching ears....
