Discussion on Police killing of Black people and out of propotion

[Captain America]

I am personally tired of hearing that black people are "twice as likely" to be killed by police than others. So lets talk figures. I'll use 2015 data for this. In 2015, 1146 people were killed by police or in police custody. 306 of them were black, and 581 were white, the rest were of other races, but nobody seems to care about those other races in this discussion. Now, while people correctly state that blacks make up a much smaller part of the population than whites, what should be focused on is that blacks make up a higher part of the criminal element. FBI crime statistics show that of violent crime, blacks committed 37.7% of it. Yet blacks comprised of only 26.7% of those killed by police or in police custody. So... where is the problem?

As 2015 FBI data isn't available just yet, Im using 2014 data
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-43

And here is the data on police and in-custody deaths
The Counted: people killed by police in the United States – interactive | US news | The Guardian

Shhhhhhhh........... That's the 500 pound gorilla in the room we ain't supposed to talk about.

Watch the TV pundits bring the black crime ratio numbers up on cable news and see how fast the BLM quest shouts them down and redirects you back to "It's all whitey's fault." Facts, we ain't supposed to mention because............

 

[Ikari]

Yes, we would.

No, we wouldn't. The police have lost the trust of the people they are supposed to protect. And they certainly share part of that blame. Part of the problem are the coverups and the looking the other way that goes on with the police who have taken an "us vs. them" mentality that further causes a loss of trust.

Bad actions need to be punished. Shooting unarmed people should be punished. Covering up bad actions and violence should be punished. Being a cop is not a license to kill.

 

[calamity]

No, we wouldn't. The police have lost the trust of the people they are supposed to protect. And they certainly share part of that blame. Part of the problem are the coverups and the looking the other way that goes on with the police who have taken an "us vs. them" mentality that further causes a loss of trust.

Bad actions need to be punished. Shooting unarmed people should be punished. Covering up bad actions and violence should be punished. Being a cop is not a license to kill.

It's not a license to kill, and unarmed people can still pose a threat. See Michael Brown case for evidence of that.

 

[calamity]

Shhhhhhhh........... That's the 500 pound gorilla in the room we ain't supposed to talk about.

Watch the TV pundits bring the black crime ratio numbers up on cable news and see how fast the BLM quest shouts them down and redirects you back to "It's all whitey's fault." Facts, we ain't supposed to mention because............

If a cop is patrolling an area with a homicide rate approaching 50 per 100,000, only the most ignorant fool would consider their apprehension to be an evil act. My gawd. What do people expect?

 

[Ikari]

It's not a license to kill, and unarmed people can still pose a threat. See Michael Brown case for evidence of that.

And in some of the situations, they do not. There is no license to kill. Unacceptable government force must be punished.

 

[calamity]

And in some of the situations, they do not. There is no license to kill. Unacceptable government force must be punished.

Of course it does. And, believe it or not, cops do get prosecuted now and then.

 

[Northern Light]

Government force against the People is limited. So no, they don't have the right to just "blow you away". There are situations where deadly force is a reasonable response, but we are in this current situation because there is an established history of some of that deadly force being unnecessary. Too many unarmed people, or suspects that have already been tackled and controlled being shot. Too many instances that could have been resolved more peacefully had the police not escalated the situation.

The overall distrust of the police by the people is not caused by the people. This is caused by systematic abuse that is either covered up or otherwise unpunished.

Thus we need to reevaluate how government agents interact with the people, reexamine the tools they have and find a way that can protect both government agent and citizen.

This isn't the wild west, police can't just shoot people because they are scared.

Thank you!

The double-standard for murder is frightening. If I shot someone to kill and said it was because I was scared, do you think I would not get a 1st degree murder sentence? The excuses that fly these days in America for police brutality are totally laughable among our allies. If an RCMP officer up here in Canada killed someone because they were scared, it would be an uproar. But in the U.S.?

 

[Casper]

Interesting that some want to talk about how many black lives were taken by cops, rightly so or not, but yet we ignore how many black lives are saved by cops, I wonder why that is and I wonder why black people call in an emergency if they are so afraid of them.

 

[PoS]

End the drug war, fine.

But drop immunity, and there'd be very few police - the liability would be too high for anyone to consider it.

Now make officers otherwise more accountable for their actions, that might work.

There is no reason to have immunity because all it does is make cops and state employees above the law. The law needs to be equal and I'm pretty sure that the ones who truly want to be cops will act in a more responsible manner because of it. We will be rid of the riffraff and bullies. It will make cops more reasonable when dealing with people too.

Every officer is already liable for his actions. WTH are you talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity_in_the_United_States

 

[joG]

Oh, certainly, we should let criminals be criminals right?

How is that working out for Baltimore?

Who said anything even remotely like that?

 

[NO1]

I am personally tired of hearing that black people are "twice as likely" to be killed by police than others. So lets talk figures. I'll use 2015 data for this. In 2015, 1146 people were killed by police or in police custody. 306 of them were black, and 581 were white, the rest were of other races, but nobody seems to care about those other races in this discussion. Now, while people correctly state that blacks make up a much smaller part of the population than whites, what should be focused on is that blacks make up a higher part of the criminal element. FBI crime statistics show that of violent crime, blacks committed 37.7% of it. Yet blacks comprised of only 26.7% of those killed by police or in police custody. So... where is the problem?

As 2015 FBI data isn't available just yet, Im using 2014 data
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-43

And here is the data on police and in-custody deaths
The Counted: people killed by police in the United States – interactive | US news | The Guardian

How many blacks killed due to committing violent crime in that year?

 

[Caine]

How many blacks killed due to committing violent crime in that year?

I would say nearly all of them.... considering assaulting a police officer is a violent crime.

 

[NO1]

I would say nearly all of them.... considering assaulting a police officer is a violent crime.

I'm sorry but I don't buying it.
The police uses this stance to cover up bad cops instead of acknowledge their mistakes, the police isn't perfect and that's ok as long they keep improving and getting better, and punishing cops that using lethal force wrongly is a good start.
I bet Philander Castile also (somehow) assaulted the police officer according to you, am I right?

 

[Caine]

I'm sorry but I don't buying it.
The police uses this stance to cover up bad cops instead of acknowledge their mistakes, the police isn't perfect and that's ok as long they keep improving and getting better, and punishing cops that using lethal force wrongly is a good start.
I bet Philander Castile also (somehow) assaulted the police officer according to you, am I right?

No... he was pulled over and suspected of being the armed robbery suspect (By the officer) due to his physical resemblance to that of the suspect as seen on video cameras. When the officer approached he, Castile, had a firearm in his lap and wasn't obeying officer commands to keep his hands visible and not reach for the weapon.

I know there are two sides to every story, and I am aware of my bias towards the police, but the reason why I am biased towards the police is that the "family members" and "loved ones" of those killed by police do not have the greatest track record of honesty from all the high profile cases within the past 3 years. So my bias has more justification than just the fact that I am former law enforcement.

 

[radcen]

Comparing police use of force due to the dangerous nature of their work to crab fishing is completely dishonest.

How many crab fisherman are shot by crabs?

Danger is danger. The source of said danger will of course vary from profession to profession, but the relative danger remains as it is.

 

[rocket88]

I do believe that I have stated that the police aren't perfect in some way shape or form right here in this thread.

I'll admit when a police action is excessive, but I won't do it by watching an after the fact video and listening to one person's take on the situation.

Because lets face it..... "Black Lies Matter" when it comes to these situations as we have been witness to over and over and over again. The Race Grievance Industry has taught many people how to be professional victims of police, as well as be brainwashed by their "group think". Anyone who doesn't follow that think, even if they are black themselves, are either a Racist (if you are white) or a "Coon" (if you are black). I just saw that **** today on a local facebook group where a black man posted some very compelling statistics about how this isn't a black person problem, and was called a coon for it.

Which black lies do you ask?

"Hands up don't shoot."
Nearly the R.G.I. put out to do with Trayvon Martin
Nearly anything the R.G.I. spouted off about the Freddie Gray case.

And I see that you didn't want a discussion, you wanted an echo chamber.

Good Day!

 

[Caine]

Danger is danger. The source of said danger will of course vary from profession to profession, but the relative danger remains as it is.

And yet, has no place in a discussion on police use of force against assailants.

 

[radcen]

I do believe that I have stated that the police aren't perfect in some way shape or form right here in this thread.

I'll admit when a police action is excessive, but I won't do it by watching an after the fact video and listening to one person's take on the situation.

Because lets face it..... "Black Lies Matter" when it comes to these situations as we have been witness to over and over and over again. The Race Grievance Industry has taught many people how to be professional victims of police, as well as be brainwashed by their "group think". Anyone who doesn't follow that think, even if they are black themselves, are either a Racist (if you are white) or a "Coon" (if you are black). I just saw that **** today on a local facebook group where a black man posted some very compelling statistics about how this isn't a black person problem, and was called a coon for it.

Which black lies do you ask?

"Hands up don't shoot."
Nearly the R.G.I. put out to do with Trayvon Martin
Nearly anything the R.G.I. spouted off about the Freddie Gray case.

And you often do, and I will back you on that, but there are some who are just as absurdly on the "cops never do wrong" side as there are some on the "cops never do right" side.

 

[radcen]

And in some of the situations, they do not. There is no license to kill. Unacceptable government force must be punished.

Unacceptable government forces does not mean no force ever.

 

[Caine]

And you often do, and I will back you on that, but there are some who are just as absurdly on the "cops never do wrong" side as there are some on the "cops never do right" side.

Although I kinda lied in my statement.

I am embarrassed to admit that I misjudged the Minnesota case by offering an opinion solely based upon the information provided by the female friend of Castile.

And now I have all this new information which has changed my mind in favor of the Police.

 

[MaggieD]

Although I kinda lied in my statement.

I am embarrassed to admit that I misjudged the Minnesota case by offering an opinion solely based upon the information provided by the female friend of Castile.

And now I have all this new information which has changed my mind in favor of the Police.

Nice.

 

[NO1]

No... he was pulled over and suspected of being the armed robbery suspect (By the officer) due to his physical resemblance to that of the suspect as seen on video cameras. When the officer approached he, Castile, had a firearm in his lap and wasn't obeying officer commands to keep his hands visible and not reach for the weapon.

I know there are two sides to every story, and I am aware of my bias towards the police, but the reason why I am biased towards the police is that the "family members" and "loved ones" of those killed by police do not have the greatest track record of honesty from all the high profile cases within the past 3 years. So my bias has more justification than just the fact that I am former law enforcement.

There isnt a video that shows Castile was not followed the officer orders, there is the version of the girlfriend against the version of the officer but I can say that it seems the officer didnt tell clear unambiguous orders because Castile's girlfriend said Castile did obey to the officer commands.
Anyway if he thought Castile is an armed criminal why didnt he tell him to get out of the car and lay on the ground? Why he shot him 5 times?

 

[Caine]

Nice.

Yeah, I think part of why I jumped to judgement on the Minnesota shooting was due to another one of my biases. That is, a bias towards CCW carriers and people (regardless of race) choosing to arm themselves and protect themselves from the criminal element wherever they go. That coupled with my experiences of seeing some of my fellow officers back in my LEO days improperly (my opinion) react to someone who was legally carrying a firearm.

It is quite interesting to try and be honest with yourself and analyze why you form your opinions, I think everyone should try it.

 

[radcen]

Although I kinda lied in my statement.

I am embarrassed to admit that I misjudged the Minnesota case by offering an opinion solely based upon the information provided by the female friend of Castile.

And now I have all this new information which has changed my mind in favor of the Police.

A friend of mine (not a member here at DP) has been all over Facebook about this. She is something of an uber-progressive SJW, just to be clear. She is now portraying the stop as profiling, plain and simple. Knowing her, the implication being of course, that this is just another in a long line of police actively targeting blacks just because they're black.

And I'm having a hard time with that. If a crime was just recently committed in the area are two distinguishing physical characteristics are given, and the officer comes across a person who fits the two physical characteristics, what the eff is the officer supposed to do? Not even stop them? Phftt, of course not.

Now, having said that, I am troubled by the claim of the taillight if that wasn't really the reason for the stop. And I still have serious concerns for how things played out after the stop was initiated, because I do wonder if there was some fear on the part of the officer to cause him to react one way to this guy that he wouldn't have acted to another, but as of right now I am not questioning the stop itself at all.

 

[radcen]

Although I kinda lied in my statement.

I am embarrassed to admit that I misjudged the Minnesota case by offering an opinion solely based upon the information provided by the female friend of Castile.

And now I have all this new information which has changed my mind in favor of the Police.

I respect anyone in a political debate who has the integrity and backbone to stand up and admit they jumped the gun. We all do it from time to time, but some will never admit it.